adambr2

And the only reason you defend him is because he's been a Brewer his entire career. If he were a member of a rival team you would think he was the dirtbag that the rest of the league already thinks of him as. Fair market value? Well that's debatable, at this rate of injury he's not going to be worth $19M a year because he's simply not going to be available enough, but that's not really my point. My point is he signed a dishonest extension based on our belief that he was a clean player. Now we're stuck with him for 4 more years at $19M per and his body is completely breaking down at 33 -- I'll ask again -- do you really think that's a coincidence? I never said that PED use precludes a player from ever receiving a contract again, but don't you think that the Brewers might have been a little hesitant post-scandal to lock him up for 9 figures through his age 38 season? Don't you think they might have instead thought, "Nah, let's see how this first contract plays out first." ? Whether or not this interferes with the Brewers' future plans or holds them down has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Nothing. You don't throw $19M a year at a guy and just kind of excuse it because we can work around it. That doesn't make it okay. And Braun wouldn't apologize to me unless his agent or publicist thought it was in his best interests to do so. I drank the kool-aid for a long, long time. Don't buy for a second that anything was genuine or that he just "made a mistake". It is what it is now, we have to move forward, but how people can still defend Braun and want him as a lifelong Brewer icon, I just don't know. There's a lot more there than just "he did PED's."

So his floor is a .775 OPS and we should be happy to pay him $19M a year to be here since he'll be hurt a lot and so our younger guys will get plenty of chances. That's your argument? I think he's saying you're overreacting because you're not paying him a dime and he won't really be blocking anyone. Lets not act like Braun is the first guy to get some money in his 30's and possibly not live up to the contract. I still think he will over the course of it but even if he doesn't, so what? The Brewers will adjust and move forward. We make a bigger deal about this on these boards than I bet the front office does or even MA who is paying the bills. We have no idea what the FO or Mark A says about this behind closed doors. Yes they'll adjust and move forward, because they have no choice. No, he wouldn't be the first guy not to live up to his contract, but most franchises can better afford that expensive of a mistake, and we DID have a chance to trade him.

People hold grudges. Most hold athletes to a higher standard than they do themselves. It's not going to change and it's too bad. Little bit different circumstance with Braun than most athletes. Yes the whole signing a $105M extension while he was on PEDs which essentially robs us now, tends to rub me the wrong way, especially if his rash of injuries now is related to his past PED use.

So his floor is a .775 OPS and we should be happy to pay him $19M a year to be here since he'll be hurt a lot and so our younger guys will get plenty of chances. That's your argument?

Yep, and it's very possible that at some point we are trading much younger talent even at the MLB level (Broxton, Santana) because we need to accommodate a spot for Braun.

As a “10 and 5” player (10 years in the majors, at least the last five with the same club), he now has full veto power over any trade and thinks a move is unlikely. “It’s more likely than not that I do finish my career here," he said. Fantastic.

No matter if he never played again, it shouldn't effect anything the Brewers are doing or want to do. Payroll is already low but more flexibility is of course better. 20M in payroll a year or whatever it is, is still a big deal for a small market. Maybe it doesn't affect anything now but it could in 2-3 years when we're making a push.

Yeah...but to answer the speculation I would guess Braun goes on the DL , Guerra comes off, and Franklin and Sogard can send flowers to Braun for saving one of them their 25 man spot for now. Nothing very exciting. Hope Phillips is up though. If it's going to be awhile it would be preferable to have an outfielder in the outfield.

One can always go younger. Is he not even worth Gavin Lux+Dustin May+AJ Alexy? Depends, how much salary are we eating or taking back?

They were supposedly very cautious with him and he passed every physical test they gave him. Unless we just have a very poor medical and training staff, don't know what else they could do. He's just extremely injury prone. It's obviously not a new injury so it's very possible he came back too fast. Again though, what else could they have done? They DL'ed him, they gave him every medical test that they felt necessary. They obviously thought he was healthy. It wasn't just a Braun decision, obviously the medical staff felt comfortable.

They were supposedly very cautious with him and he passed every physical test they gave him. Unless we just have a very poor medical and training staff, don't know what else they could do. He's just extremely injury prone.

Unreal. The guy cannot even run down the line to 1st anymore without us expecting him to come up gimpy. Don't think it'll be Brinson. They need a move for Guerra tomorrow anyway so I wouldn't expect it to be any more exciting than Guerra for Braun. If for some reason they do make an AAA callup I still don't expect it to be Brinson. He's been looking like he needs more time. If it's Phillips I'll be excited .

When he hits a bases clearing double to win game 6 in the NLCS, yes. A good move. We can't trade him for known MLB roster filler. It's either young high ceiling prospects or we hold onto him. And that's going to happen because? Thatt's no more likely to happen than with any other player in the lineup. Probably less so with Braun since he's less likely to actually be available for an NLCS. The days of trading him for young ceiling prospects has passed, that isn't happening. Not unless he can go on a good consistently healthy streak and even then teams will be wary .

Sadly yes. I'm not losing sleep over not having those two though. Well put. If we end up keeping Braun and making the playoffs before he retires, holding onto him will be the best non-move Stearns ever didn't make. Why? We might make the playoffs before Braun retires -- doesn't mean he will have much to do with it. And trading him certainly wouldn't have prevented us from making the playoffs before 2021.

I guess I'm confused on this. What's embarrassing about it? Disappointing or frustrating that he can't play but embarrasing is a weird way to put it. I doubt Braun wants to continue to be hurt. You wouldn't be embarrassed if you were a professional formerly great baseball player making $19M who can't stay healthy for any extended period of time? Alright, look. What I'm going to say here is controversial, but it's my opinion, and I'm going to get it out there. I know you're a big Brewer supporter, but I also know you're a big Braun supporter, and I have to ask -- why? I have no sympathy for the guy, I have sympathy for the fans and organization that he stole from. Braun signed a $105M extension way, way in advance of the norm, under false pretenses knowing he was a user and would risk his long term earnings if caught. For all I know, he used all the way going back to his Miami days -- think it's a coincidence how quickly his body is breaking down at only 33? The early extension, the vehement denials and lies to the fans. The smearing of the collector. And then the heartfelt 'I made a mistake. ' Yeah, you got caught. The good guy persona that I don't buy for s second. I was an enormous Braun fan back in the day, was my favorite player and I'd argue til I was blue in the face against anyone that said Prince was our franchise player. After his 'acquittal', I wrote a very passionate blog blasting anyone who was questioning whether his acquittal was correct and blasting MLB for their wild goose chase. No more. The guy has long since lost the benefit of the doubt, is a pretty sorry representative of a franchise player, and I wish we had moved on while we had a shot too. I still root for him, but only inasmuch as I want my team to win. Perhaps if he did what you had suggested, retiring early, I'd gain a lot of respect back for him. But I'll be frank -- there is no chance of that happening, none. He will sit back and collect every penny from us, whether he turns into a 120 game a year player or a 50 game a year player. That's my vent.

Puig and McCarthy for Braun alone would look great right now. Too late.

Their Pythagorean had them at a W/L expectancy of 90-72. That should tell you right off the bat that they were lucky. I'm not saying they weren't a very good team, obviously they won a playoff series. But they had an atrocious middle infield defensively, probably the worst SS in the game, their lineup was good but probably not as good as they are typically thought of. Their rotation carried them, but Marcum was a big injury risk and they are very fortunate he held up as well as he did. There is no way you assemble that same team in 2011 from Day 1 against the same field and they win at least 96 games more than once or twice in 10 tries.

Because they weren't really at the goalline or anywhere near it in 2009 and 2010. They actually had a very similar team to what we have now, but the farm wasn't as good and lacked quality pitching at the top. I'm not saying it was a huge mistake to do what they did but they didnt look like they were right on the cusp. It would be like trading Brinson, Arcia, Hader, Ray, Ortiz and Diaz for the best starters we can get next off-season. We could do it, and we'd probably be a playoff team next year because of it, but that doesn't mean it'd be a good idea. I think your history is a bit off. 2011 was the year we had those types of guys at the major league level already and they traded away what were OUR top prospects, but weren't seen as much around the league for some pitching. It was the right call and I'm glad Melvin had the stones to make it. It could actually be said that they should have went out and got more pitching. This franchise is loserville every season and would've continued that way with a rebuild mentality during the primes of Braun, Fielder and co. I'm not quite sure what you mean. I was just saying that at the time we made the trades, (post-2010), we were not a great team that appeared to be close to a championship. We won 77 games in 2010, I expect this team to win more. So we were not an 85 win team that appeared to just be a piece away. I do agree that our top trade pieces now are worth more than our top trade pieces then, but I'm just pointing out a competitive move now if we wanted to go all-in. Escobar is similar in value at that time to Arcia now, so if I had to pin down what a similar offer would be now, I'd say Arcia, Corbin Burnes, Brett Phillips, and Taylor Williams would be real similar to what we gave up then, but I don't think that would be nearly enough for 2 years of an ace now. Again I'm not saying it was a lousy move, but the truth is we had luck on our side, too. We were good, but we weren't as good as our 96 wins indicated . We stayed relatively healthy in 2011 and got some surprisingly excellent CF value from Morgan and Gomez, and the pitching held up. It wouldn't have taken much more than a major injury to Prince, Braun, or Greinke to thwart the whole idea, and with Prince leaving after 2011, it was really only a 1 year shot as evidenced by the regression in 2012. Because of the 2011 success it's seen as a great move even though we didn't win a WS, but it was probably an unlucky break or two away from being viewed much differently in retrospect.

Because they weren't really at the goalline or anywhere near it in 2009 and 2010. They actually had a very similar team to what we have now, but the farm wasn't as good and lacked quality pitching at the top. I'm not saying it was a huge mistake to do what they did but they didnt look like they were right on the cusp. It would be like trading Brinson, Arcia, Hader, Ray, Ortiz and Diaz for the best starters we can get next off-season. We could do it, and we'd probably be a playoff team next year because of it, but that doesn't mean it'd be a good idea.

Exactly. I think Mark A. has seen the light, so to speak. Not that he was ever a bad owner, just a bit overzealous. I think when he took over, he wanted to put the Brewers on the map and he wanted to do it now. And though we didn't make a World Series and had to rebuild, I think he's succeeded. Without looking up attendance numbers or anything like that I would guess that fan excitement about the team even now in a rebuilding year far exceeds what it was at any point in the 90s. Still, after 10+ years, he's seen the value of patience and hired the man for the job and wants him to see it through. So I think it's kind of crazy to think that Mark is just going to turn back the clock to post 2010 and throw it all away to try for another 1-2 year window. I guess it's possible he might ask Steans if there are moves they can make that would help them now and help them later, but I'm pretty confident that if Stearns tells him it's a bad idea, he's not going to push the issue.

I know it's been beaten to death, but they really need to figure out a solution to the Colorado Springs problem. It's becoming one of the more serious big picture issues with this franchise right now. It's literally ruining our top pitching prospects.

21 IP yet? In that case, I expect to see him atop, ahem, at least 2-3 more consecutive ranking lists. I will say I think relievers are perennially underrated on prospect lists, just don't think Suter is that guy. But Barnes was one of them. Like Taylor Williams for instance isn't even a pipeline top 30 for the Brewers which seems insane.

Would you say Ponce or Burnes has the higher MLB upside?

Looking ahead I see (hopefully) at least one or two pitching prospects that could give us significant contributions every year. Woodruff and Hader this year, Lopez and Ortiz next year, then perhaps Bickford and Taylor Williams in 2019 and at some points in 2020, Ponce, Burnes, Supak, Peralta, and Diplan will all be possibilities. Obviously the further away they are, the less sure of a thing and not all these guys will pan out. But I think this is what Stearns meant by talent at every level and he's done a good job at that. There is pitching at every level that have legitimate upside and aren't just organizational fodder. But we're not ready this year.

Strike 2 to Broxton was way off the corner and Ball 2 was basically in the same spot. I know the calls for the machines get old but these guys suck. Compared to the available technology, anyway.