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What about dealing Hart for a young 1/2 starter?


I've seen the idea of trading either Mat Gamel or Matt LaPorta for a frontline starter tossed around on here, and rightfully so as we're in a very difficult situation right now.

 

My question is, given how Gamel has established himself in the last year plus, and how close LaPorta appears to be MLB ready, do we perhaps consider dealing Corey Hart for that young frontline arm rather than dealing one of the two minor leaguers? Corey Hart's going to bring you more in return most likely, is still young and cheap making him desirable and proven.

 

One idea that I keep going back to would be to potentially bring up both Gamel AND LaPorta and put them in a platoon type situation. This could help give you that left handed bat vs right handers(Gamel) and another great PH'ing option off the bench. The one major hitch in that plan is obviously that Gamel's never played in the OF(to my knowledge) and it's obviously a very poor idea to bring him up and thrust him into that situation for the first time in his life as a big leaguer. A solution to that, though a unlikely one would be to maybe put Dillon in RF for the next 5-6 weeks, or just Matt LaPorta in RF and allow Gamel to learn to play the OF for a little while down in the minors?

 

I haven't really put a whole lot of thought into who we may look to go after as the options are going to be rather limited, but the one that I would really, really like to look into would be a guy like Zach Greinke from the Royals.

I'd be willing to give up Hart and possible Alcides Escobar as they don't appear to have a Shortstop for the future for him.

Another option would be Scott Kazmir from the Rays. I've heard someone say that he was shopped this off-season(though I hadn't heard that) and with the Rays losing Young, Dukes and then Baldelli, not to mention having a lot of true high end pitching prospects, this may be a deal that would interest them.

 

You not only get that true ace to go with Sheets, but you get him for the future as well, and as such, you're in a much better place next year with Sheets leaving.

 

 

I know this is a idea kinda out of Right Field(pun intended), and it's a rather extreme one, and one that on the surface may be dismissed out of hand, but I can see this move getting us back on track, and giving us a big boost going forward, as much as losing Hart really would sting.

 

So whaddya think? And go easy on me!

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This could possibly be merged with the other "trade for starter" thread.

 

Grienke hasn't been brought up yet, and I think that's a pretty good option. The team has had some problems with him, and he's hitting arbitration next season so he won't be dirt cheap anymore. The good thing about dealing with the Royals is that they'd be one of the most open teams to taking a group of lower level guys or 2nd tier prospects. Something like Escobar+Butler+Periard for Grienke might work?

 

As for Hart, let's keep him. We have other ammo we can use.

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No way I trade Hart. I'd rather keep Hart and trade Prince for a young stud pitcher, then put LaPorta at 1B.

 

To me, Hart is an equally valuable player as Prince, but under-rated. And the Brewers have a much better chance extending Hart's contract that Prince.

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No way I trade Hart. I'd rather keep Hart and trade Prince for a young stud pitcher, then put LaPorta at 1B.

 

I agree, I suspect Cameron is a stopgap for Hart in CF. Prince is very replaceable at 1b, Hart isn't in CF.

 

If Hart can play CF, I think he has more value than Prince.

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I hate the idea of trading Hart, but Gopher's logic is pretty impeccable.

It would take two top prospects (LaPorta & Escobar) to get simliar value to what Hart could draw. Plus, by trading Hart instead of LaPorta & Escobar we would be trading away 3 1/2 years of Hart - but maintaining 6 years of LaPorta and Escobar. And while I love Hart, he does have an adaquate replacement in LaPorta waiting in the wings.

FTJ also has a good point that Hart is very possibly the CF of the future. That may be true, but he hasn't played a single game in CF this season. The Brewers seem pretty content with him in RF. (I always thought he was a better CF than Gross, but Gross always got the starts in CF) But, if the Brewers were to trade Hart they would be able pick up the option on Cameron for next year.

That means we wouldn't need a new CF until 2009. (Assuming you hate Gwynn as a starting CF) By that time we could have someone else emerge in our system (Brantley), or move Braun to CF after two years in LF, or find a new CF on the free agent market.

Bottom line for me - if a Lincecum type player becomes available, you go get him.

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Not to say this would ever happen but I want to keep Hart. While Prince is a great hitter, I would deal him. He does not seem like he wants to stay around Milwaukee.Personally I would send Prince & Bush to the Giants for Lincecum,Fred Lewis, & a couple of pitching prospects.Lincecum could step right into yo's spot, Lewis could leadoff moving Weeks down some spots (hopefully he would not put so much presure on himself) & a couple of prospects to help stock the farm system.
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Yes, I do think the Brewers would consider dealing Hart for a pitcher, but that's going to be Lincecum, or in that price range. They wouldn't just move him to get "a pitcher", but they do have LaPorta playing RF at Huntsville, so it wouldn't shock me at all.

 

I don't want to see it, I love Corey Hart, but I sure wouldn't call it impossible.

 

The Giants pursued Delmon Young and then Alex Rios when Lincecum's name came up, if he's the guy you want, it's probably Corey.

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Trading Hart completely hinges on whether the Brewers feel his is our CF of the future. Our future OF lays out very nicely if Hart is the future CF, but the evidence right now strongly suggests he isn't. Hart is very valuable because of his all around game, and is very similar to Alex Rios, the player San Fran may have wanted for Tim Lincecome this past offseason.

 

If you trade a position player for a pitcher, you lose, because the pitcher is much more likely to get injured. No way I trade Hart at all.
True , pitchers get injured, which is why the Brewers need to add another pitcher.But when your replacement for the injured pitcher is Dave Bush, and your replacement for Hart is Matt Laporta, trading for the pitcher would likely make you a better team.

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-Posted by the fan formerly known as X ellence. David Stearns has brought me back..

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I like the Hart/Rios comparison and think that if Hart and a pitching prospect could get Lincecum you would have to do it right now. With Gamel and Laporta in the minors ready to fill a corner spot this seems really quite logical.

 

As to Corey being the CF'r of the future...I think we saw a taste of our future CF'r earlier this season. Is Milwaukee ready for a Category 5 Hurricane any time soon?

 

http://www.brewerfan.net/ViewPlayerProfile.do?playerId=295 - for those that don't understand...

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At this point Id trade position players in this order... Hardy, Weeks, Hall, Hart, Fielder, Braun. I dont include Cameron or Kendall because they have no value to a rebuilding team.

 

If Lincecum is available he has to be considered. Maybe we take him along with a bad contract like Dave Roberts, or an old guy like Omar Vizquel. Hardy, Gamel and Jeffress for Lincecum and Vizquel perhaps. I dont know if JJ has any value though, although he was an All Star, right?

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Not to steal this tread, but what about maybe doing something with Hall? Just a crazy thought (humor me). Sign Bonds (I know...) he plays left and gives us a LH-bat. Braun bat to 3rd (I know) and then move Hall, et al for a starting pitcher...just a crazy thought...but....
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If we are talking Fielder, I would want both Cain and Lincecum (we'd probably have to add another player, but nothing too valuable). Then move LaPorta to 1B (which I'll admit might be a bit rocky at first).

 

2008 Rotation:

Sheets

Lincecum

Cain

Suppan

Villenuena

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I think we have to come to terms with the fact that given the loss of Gallardo for such an extended period and the likely departure of Sheets after this season, that the young core of Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, Hart, Braun, and Hall may not stay entirely intact beyond this year if that long. Fielder and Braun are clearly in a class above the rest and should be held on to as long as possible.

 

All the rest are fair game as trade bait to obtain starting pitching. That includes Corey Hart. That he might be able to replace Cameron in CF is still speculation. I'm not entirely convinced he'd be very good in CF. Even if they have to outside the organization and they do have in-house candidates in Gwynn and yes Iribarren, it's easier to get a stopgap CF than it is quality starting pitching. There's also nothing preventing them from bringing Cameron back.

 

LaPorta is going to play somewhere very soon. Hardy and Weeks aren't doing much to enhance their trade value. Gamel isn't ready defensively to play 3rd. Hart may be the most logical guy to deal.

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With Gamel and Laporta in the minors ready to fill a corner spot this seems really quite logical.

 

The only problem is that Gamel has yet to play the outfield. For all we know he may be worse in left than he is at third. Plus, if he could stick at third, it would significantly help the outfield logjam. You also have to consider what will be done with guys like Cain and Gillespie and Brantly.

 

I disagree with those who think Hardy and Weeks need to go first. The way I see it, you can either keep Braun and Fielder, or you can keep Weeks, Hart, Hardy and Gallardo. Right now Weeks and Hardy have little trade value, and I think it will continue to go down. They should be easier and cheaper to sign. Ideally LaPorta and Gamel could slide right into the spots Braun and Fielder are occupying, and the return we'd get by trading Fielder and Braun should be huge. We could really stock up our farm system by trading those two, kind of like what the Marlins typically do. Fielder is not coming back...he just isn't. Scott Boras will not let him, not when he could be a DH in Anaheim, Boston, or New York making $18 million a year.

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I dont think Gamel or LaPorta are ready for the majors yet. They are both in AA and LaPorta has yet to play a full year of prefessional baseball. I would prefer to leave both in the minors at least through the end of next year. As far as the guys we currently have here is the order I would keep them in

young starting pitching(Gallardo, Parra, Vill, ect.)

Braun

Hart

Weeks

Fielder

Hall/Hardy

 

I honestly think that trading any of our current starting position players for another starting pitcher would have an overall negative impact. Trading prospects is the only way I see where we can get another starter without hurting the team this year.

Fan is short for fanatic.

I blame Wang.

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I would prefer to leave both in the minors at least through the end of next year.
If we had taken that approach with Braun - Braun would not have reached the big leagues until 2009!

 

And currently, both LaPorta and Gamel are both outhitting the pace Braun set at AA. If you can hit at Huntsville, you can hit in MLB. The only real question is their defense and where to put them.

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twobrewers wrote:

If we had taken that approach with Braun - Braun would not have reached the big leagues until 2009!

Unless I am mistaken he still would have made it this year. To be honest I think he would have benefited defensively from a full year in AAA.

Fan is short for fanatic.

I blame Wang.

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I would prefer to leave both in the minors at least through the end of next year.

If we leave Laporta in the minors that long, he'd break the minor league all-time home run recordhttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Seriously, some teams call guys up straight from AA, and have success with it. Laporta may not have played a full season as a pro yet, but he did play a year longer in college than most.

 

The main reason most prospects stay longer in the minors is because no one has ever hit like Laporta has. The only guy in recent years who compares in Miguel Cabera (1.038 OPS in 266 ABs in AA Southern League). He was just 20 at the time, was called up to the bigs, helped Florida in the playoffs, and batted cleanup in the world series.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"88.6% of all statistics are made up right there on the spot" Todd Snider

 

-Posted by the fan formerly known as X ellence. David Stearns has brought me back..

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How is LaPorta's defense in right? Is it progressing all right?

 

There is no point in bringing him up this year. I am not willing to trade Hart and hope LaPorta's offense and defense are comparable. Hart is a solid contributor, and so far has been the most consistent hitter. Braun, Fielder, Weeks, and Hart are leaving a lot to be desired so far.

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Nobody has hit like LaPorta because top hitting prospects aren't in the Southern League at 23.

 

And LaPorta's defense is certainly a question mark. If he's Adam Dunn out there that makes a huge difference.

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LaPorta almost has to be option A for a long term outfield injury. Otherwise, a September call-up is almost assured if he keeps hitting well. OD 2009 or a few weeks in is going to be his arrival date, with Gamel just weeks/months behind, and Escobar weeks/months behind that.
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LaPorta almost has to be option A for a long term outfield injury. Otherwise, a September call-up is almost assured if he keeps hitting well. OD 2009 or a few weeks in is going to be his arrival date, with Gamel just weeks/months behind, and Escobar weeks/months behind that.
I doubt he is a September call up unless they think he should be on the 40 man roster. I see no reason any of those players is anything more than a half month injury call up next year. Things obviously chnge if there is a trade, but as things stand now the best option looks to be picking up Cameron's option and letting them sit in the minors next year.

Fan is short for fanatic.

I blame Wang.

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