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Marlins fire Ozzie Guillen


patrickgpe

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/marlins-fire-ozzie-guillen.html

 

didn't like the move for the marlins when they made it and obviously it didn't work out for them. It seems to be happening way more often than in the past, but i never liked giving up a player for a manager. It also seems like it was less of a baseball move and more of an exciting the fan base one.

 

also seems odd to trade bell who didn't get along with ozzie only to fire him a few days later.

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They hired him to appeal to the Hispanic audience of Miami, and he quickly destroyed that appeal with his comments on Fidel Castro. I'm sure they wanted to fire him then, but they let him ride out the season. Now the big question is whether anyone else will take the risk of hiring him on as a manager.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

 

~Bill Walsh

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The new manager will be the 8th manager in the 12 years since Loria took over the franchise. Actually the 9th if you count Jack McKeon twice. There are problems with management at many levels. A decent portion of the population is still very upset at the large amount of tax dollars used to build Marlins Park. The attendance was far below projections this year, even early in the year when the team was playing well. There were only 3 sellouts all year. I think most people believe that Loria has no interest in building a winning team, which is probably true for the most part.

 

Getting rid of Ozzie was the right move, but the bigger picture is that this is a stagnant franchise that is likely to continue having problems into the future. They are plagued by bad ownership, unfortunately.

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Good bye Ozzie. Talk about the getting rid of the garbage. That whole situation in Miami is a an absolute mess.

 

On a side note, with the Brewers having $ to spend this offseason I have to wonder about Reyes. 5 years and $96 million left on his contract. Since they are in full on rebuild mode do you think they move that contract with the right offer? Not sure we have the need with Segura or would want him given the salary but a 1-8 of Reyes, Aoki, Braun, Ramirez, Hart, Weeks, Lucroy, Gomez sure sounds special.

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The biggest mistake they made was staying in Florida. If they couldn't draw a fan base after winning two world series in just a few years they're never going to. They should have just moved somewhere instead of building a new park.

 

No, that's not the problem. If Loria ran the Milwaukee Brewers, Miller Park would be mostly empty as well. There are plenty of baseball fans in South Florida and early fears about traffic/accessibility problems at the ballpark were never realized. The problem is that the Marlins have repeatedly screwed their fans over--starting with the 1997 fire sale which turned many fans away permanently. In fact, 1997 is the only season outside of 2012 where the team had any sort of preseason expectations, and both times they drew more than 2 million fans. In 2003 they stunk until late in the year. Then there's Loria who is reason enough to avoid the Marlins--he purposely held payroll low and was pocketing millions in revenue sharing dollars, then he lied about it to get $450 million in taxpayer money right when the county was facing a huge budget shortfall. They drew some attention with the new signings this year but they had no plan, they just gave a blank check to any free agent who was willing to come down here. It could have been worse, they almost got stuck with Pujols as well.

 

That being said, the fans are very happy about Ozzie hitting the road, so if they can get A-Rod and a decent manager, they might be able to salvage some sort of fan interest going forward. The roster isn't terrible.

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I've never been much of an Ozzie Guillen fan going back to his rookie year when -- probably largely due to hype & playing in the huge Chicago market -- he beat out a more deserving Earnest Riles for AL ROY.

 

As a manager, he's done plenty of good things. But he's also proven seemingly far more often that his judgement &, on enough levels, his character more than outweigh the positives of him as a MLB manager. To me, there's a great deal to be said for treating people well and conducting oneself in a classy way, and over time I just haven't seen enough of those qualities in him as a manager to believe he deserves another chance to manage. The Marlins ownership &/or FO may be lousy in terms of baseball operations, but this still seems like the smart & obvious move. Too bad for Ozzie, but good for the Marlins.

 

(... and now if they could just make a solid improvement on those uniforms!)

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No, that's not the problem. If Loria ran the Milwaukee Brewers, Miller Park would be mostly empty as well. There are plenty of baseball fans in South Florida and early fears about traffic/accessibility problems at the ballpark were never realized.

How would Tampa Bay's attendance be explained? I don't think that Florida is much of a baseball state.

Fan is short for fanatic.

I blame Wang.

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This is pretty off topic, but it speaks to Loria's seemingly lack of interest in building a winner.

 

My dad was a successful car dealer, and he met up with a Nascar guy at some event. The Nascar guy drove in the Nationwide series (Nascar's second tier) and was one of what's known as the "start n' park" guys; meaning he'd start the race, complete one lap, park the car and go home.

 

Dad was intrigued by this and asked the guy why he'd go through all the preparation, investment, etc, just to run one lap. From there, the conversation went like this:

 

Guy: Do you like what you do?

Dad: Yeah.

 

Guy: Are you good at it?

Dad: I like to think so.

 

Guy: Did you make two and a half million dollars last year?

Dad: ...uh, no.

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No, that's not the problem. If Loria ran the Milwaukee Brewers, Miller Park would be mostly empty as well. There are plenty of baseball fans in South Florida and early fears about traffic/accessibility problems at the ballpark were never realized.

How would Tampa Bay's attendance be explained? I don't think that Florida is much of a baseball state.

 

I understand Loria is a creep, but I agree with Logan here. Florida has yet to prove it deserves Major League Baseball. From 2003-2009 the Marlins had only two losing seasons, yet failed to draw even 2 million fans in any season. In '06 they drew 1.1 million, '07, 1.3 million. The Brewers still drew 1.9 million in 2002 when they lost 106 games.

 

Miami is a huge metropolitan area; 8th in the nation according to 2011 Census estimates. Tampa-St. Pete is 18th. Milwaukee is 39th. Florida has produced a lot of major league players, but few major league fans.

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I understand where you guys are coming from but I still disagree--at least with respect to the Marlins.

 

The Marlins' attendance numbers at Dolphins Stadium (now Sun Life) are similar to what the Brewers drew at County Stadium in the late 90s: an average of around 1.5 million fans per game. Both facilities had the same problems: bad weather, poor amenities, bad sight lines, etc. It's too soon to say how the Marlins will draw at the new ballpark long term. But I suspect it will be about the same as the Brewers drew at Miller Park when they had a bad team and bad ownership (Wendy)--somewhere in the upper 1 million to low 2 million fans per game. Yes, Miami has a much larger population, but a big chunk of that population lives near the poverty line, especially around the stadium. The Brewers do not draw fans at all from inner city Milwaukee, Brewers baseball is almost completely a white suburbanite activity. Maybe more Cubans will show up in the future without "communist" Guillen around.

 

I doubt Miami will ever have the sort of fan loyalty that Milwaukee has, but they can't even start building that kind of loyalty until Loria is gone--or at least until he shows some kind of commitment to stop trading away star players. If there's one thing Miami fans really like it's their star players. Offering a nice contract to Giancarlo Stanton would be a big step forward--until then everyone is going to assume that he will hit the road like everyone else.

 

I can't speak as much for the Rays because I don't live there, although I did spent a little time in that region while traveling. St. Pete/Tampa has many of the same problems (bad ballpark, poor accessibility). But the Rays' attendance is inexcusably low considering the quality of the product on the field. I agree that the Rays should be a relocation candidate. The Latino fan base in Miami is very important and if the Marlins have any kind of success, they have the potential to be popular in other Latin American countries. The Rays...not so much. I think the population is too old and too many of them are non-native around Tampa.

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