So Lucroy really isn't that good at pitch framing/game calling?

[jerichoholicninja]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/12880518/mlb-best-game-caller-dodgers-catcher-aj-ellis

 

Total runs saved by catchers based on "Game Calling" from 2012-2014 and Lucroy isn't even in the top 10.

[SoupTown]

I guess there is a difference between 'game calling' and 'framing'.

 

In fact, it is MORE than that. They say they have, re catching, "crafted a statistical model that attempts to quantify the value of everything"

 

Surely they must have arrived at the number 42, as their answer.

[igor67]

Considering there are basically no methodological details I can't even begin to rate how reliable their measure of game calling actually is.

[MrTPlush]

Pitching Framing=/=Game Calling

 

I don't even know how you measure game calling. Is it the catcher or pitcher who is good? Did the catcher call for an 0-2 fastball or did the pitcher override him? I mean I don't know how you statistically figure that out.

[Matt Breen]

Considering there are basically no methodological details I can't even begin to rate how reliable their measure of game calling actually is.

Nailed it.

 

The article just says 'we figured out how to rate game calling' and offers no explanation to how they've actually come up with these numbers.

 

Maybe I missed something in the article.

 

Very strange way to report this info. If they really have developed a good game calling system, explain it.

[pitchleague]

I kind of blew off that article when I read it in ESPN the Mag and it was basically a story of how A.J. Ellis was the top catcher in all of baseball based on this "rating."

[jerichoholicninja]

I was going to see the comments before I added my own. This article basically a load of bologna specifically because of what some have pointed out that they don't even say how they came to their conclusion. Of course AJ Ellis is going to look like a great catcher when he catches Kershaw and Greinke in 40% of his games. And the line: "It's no coincidence that two of the last four Cy Young winners threw to the Tigers' Alex Avila." Yes, it is actually when those guys are Scherzer and Verlander. Outside of having a top guy or two the Tigers pitching has been nothing special. What a horrible article.

[Thurston Fluff]

They do a statistical analysis to come up with the number of runs saved but fail to put that number in any sort of context. Just player X saved Y number of runs over a certain period of time. It doesn't appear to be weighted to consider playing time over that period. Nor does it appear to consider the ability of the pitcher to actually execute the called pitch. There seems to be no explanation at all how they isolated the catcher in the pitcher, catcher tandem. Let alone the background work usually done by the coaches and scouts. Maybe it does account for all those things but they sure didn't bother taking the time to tell us how.

[dacbrewers]

Random variables that have no meaning. It would be difficult to actually calculate something like this. The article is nonsense.

[igor67]

It would have been really helpful if they had included the catchers Total Quarterback Rating as well.

Maybe they could expand to properly judge the economic impact of the catchers by taking a look at how the stock market does on days they catch?

[The stache]

More fine work from ESPN, a sports website with whom I have the highest regard.

 

Ok, I almost said that with a straight face....

[The stache]

It would have been really helpful if they had included the catchers Total Quarterback Rating as well.

Maybe they could expand to properly judge the economic impact of the catchers by taking a look at how the stock market does on days they catch?

 

Don't get me started on their "total quarterback rating" nonsense. It's basically "hey, we threw a bunch of numbers into a blender, and this is what came out."

 

I didn't think too much of it to begin with. When I read a comment from one of their NFL writers stating "Colin Kaepernick actually outperforms Aaron Rodgers when his runs are included", it made me want to vomit.

[Ennder]

Yeah ESPN custom stats are almost always awful. Their QB stat is terrible as an example.

[trwi7]

Yeah ESPN custom stats are almost always awful. Their QB stat is terrible as an example.

 

The funny thing is they push that QB stat on their bottom line constantly, like they think people actually think it's worth something.

[bjkrautk]

I'm sure AJ Ellis' mastery of calling a game has nothing to do with Kershaw and Grienke throwing the pitches he calls for.

[SomewhereInTime]

lol how can you even quantify something like this? Are they using Catcher ERA?

[Point Beer Is Best]

There's just way too many variables to consider to quantify "game-calling" into a statistic. At least with pitch framing you can take a visual data set and determine how many extra strikes does a catcher earn where the pitch normally would be called a ball. But game-calling? As others have mentioned, what happens if the pitcher shakes off the catcher? What if (gasp) the pitcher doesn't locate the pitch where the catcher is set up? What if you're comparing two catchers and one is catching Kershaw/Greinke, and the other is catching a staff where they average a 4.50 ERA?

[Nottso]

Yeah ESPN custom stats are almost always awful. Their QB stat is terrible as an example.

 

The funny thing is they push that QB stat on their bottom line constantly, like they think people actually think it's worth something.

 

When they push that stat on their bottom line it strikes me more like they're desperate for people to take it seriously. I think it frightens them that people don't, especially as hard as they've pushed it.

[SomewhereInTime]

Most football stats are going to be terrible though, I mean you can't tell me that regular QB rating is that meaningful either. The only thing that matters in football is how a guy grades out on tape, the stats are just for fan entertainment.

[CheezWizHed]

Surely they must have arrived at the number 42, as their answer.

 

Was that Jackie Robinson in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?