Brewers Designate Dinelson Lamet, Pedro Severino For Assignment

[MrTPlush]

40 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

The first sentence sums up Stearns' philosophy re the trade about as well as one sentence can. Rodgers' performance kept the water from being treaded.

But I think the iceberg was largely due to his assuming the teams' response to the deal would be a little more professional than it was.

I think the biggest problem was the replacements. He tried to take some ugly looking pieces and hope past results or their analytics would prove out to be better in August/September. They simply didn’t…they were about as bad as realistically possible. I mean one of the guys was injured when we traded for him and ended up never throwing a pitch for us. Kind of a fail by the medical staff on that too.

Did the team respond poorly from a mental standpoint, yah, but is it that shocking? Trading him was bad, but Stearns didn’t make any trade for a notable impact player the entire deadline in response. From a fan and player standpoint we acted like a team that was under .500 but still close enough we didn’t want to totally blow it up. We arguably got worse at the deadline with a division lead? I could go through the last 10 years and I’d be hard pressed to find a team that was in a playoff spot that intentionally made themselves worse. Whether it was right or wrong at the time or in retrospect, it just was a really garbage feeling.

[Hopper]

The thing that really bothers me is how we handled Lamet once we got him, not to mention assuming his salary to help out the Padres.

That part of the trade absolutely stunk, and made our front office look like jackass fools.

I mean, the McGee and Lamet aspect of how things transpired is just plain asinine.

[rickh150]

47 minutes ago, Hopper said:

The thing that really bothers me is how we handled Lamet once we got him, not to mention assuming his salary to help out the Padres.

That part of the trade absolutely stunk, and made our front office look like jackass fools.

I mean, the McGee and Lamet aspect of how things transpired is just plain asinine.

The day of trade CC and Stearns talked up Lamet too…. What happened, I do not understand. They valued Brent Suter, we learned.

[UpandIn]

1 hour ago, Hopper said:

The thing that really bothers me is how we handled Lamet once we got him, not to mention assuming his salary to help out the Padres.

That part of the trade absolutely stunk, and made our front office look like jackass fools.

I mean, the McGee and Lamet aspect of how things transpired is just plain asinine.

Yeah, that was just bad. It also points to the trades that fell through, but...JAKE MCGEE!

That was infuriating. It's not even like he'd have solved our problems, it was just an asinine move to deal away the guy with a lot of upside as a potential BP arm. You roll the dice on talent like that over Jake McGee who was clearly no longer effective. 

Quote

The day of trade CC and Stearns talked up Lamet too…. What happened, I do not understand. They valued Brent Suter, we learned.

I'm alright with not dumping Suter...if people are talking about blowing up chemistry, Suter getting DFA'd wouldn't help. Jake McGee and...I don't recall who else, but there seemed to be another obvious choice. Someone else going to the 60 day perhaps? Topa or...whatever. They should have found a way to keep Lamet. 

[UpandIn]

1 hour ago, MrTPlush said:

With Woodruff/Burnes and Hader/Williams they most certainly could have gone far. Brewers could have marched to a NLCS with garbage batting performances. Would they get through a 7 game series with poor batting? Probably not, but they can get hot at any time for no good reason. They had World Series quality pitching. Those aces and really good back end bullpen guys can win games against anyone.

Was it likely? No, but it never is or will be for the Brewers…so if you want to look at it that way they should blow up the entire team this off-season. Next years team will most certainly be no brighter on paper barring one crazy off-season.

The trade ended up terrible. Even the guy who made the trade can accept that.

Yeah, I completely reject that argument. We've seen too many times the inferior teams winning. Teams just getting hot and going on a run. 

The "they weren't going anywhere anyway," is an entirely flawed argument. You throw two aces, two elite relievers and then piece the other games together with Peralta, Lauer, Houser, Ashby(who maybe has a breakout post-season). 

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, Axman59 said:

 

This was Stearns acting like a fantasy baseball owner and being oblivious to the idea that his actions were going to gut the team like a fish. People on this board recognized it the day the trade happened. People are not robots. Hopefully Stearns realizes that now.

Well no, I guess he didn't think his actions would gut the team, because if he did he wouldn't have acted. They aren't robots; they reacted the way they reacted. It certainly made things worse, particularly during the initial week afterward. If there are any lessons to be learned I too hope Stearns learns them. I also hope the players who remain here learned that responding to a move you don't like isn't made better by going 1-6 vs Cincy & Pittsburgh, or whatever it was.

I'd like to know what these potential "other trade/trades" were. If other moves were going to be piggybacked off this to justify the overall picture, then that's a point of contention with me because you shouldn't assume anything during the deadline.

[brewers888]

Watching these playoffs makes it all the more obvious that we didn't get enough for Hader. Its hard to believe that teams like Toronto, Seattle, and the LAD were not interested in Hader and wouldn't trade more than a probable 5th outfielder, backend starter and awful veteran reliever with an expiring contract for the best reliever in baseball.

As for Lamet it was all financial as the Brewers didn't want to pay his contract so the DFA was all about saving money.  

[SF70]

9 hours ago, UpandIn said:

Yeah, I completely reject that argument. We've seen too many times the inferior teams winning. Teams just getting hot and going on a run. 

The "they weren't going anywhere anyway," is an entirely flawed argument. You throw two aces, two elite relievers and then piece the other games together with Peralta, Lauer, Houser, Ashby(who maybe has a breakout post-season). 

 

Not flawed, the truth. 
4 pitchers, no matter how good, were not carrying this team thru 4 rounds of the playoffs. 

Ashby and Peralta weren’t stretched and hadn’t pitched enough to get their command back. The offense was terrible all September, and abhorrent vs LHP all year. 

This team had no chance and would have been by far the worst playoff team in the postseason. This season needed to come to an end. 

 

 

[MrTPlush]

11 minutes ago, SF70 said:

Not flawed, the truth. 
4 pitchers, no matter how good, were not carrying this team thru 4 rounds of the playoffs. 

Ashby and Peralta weren’t stretched and hadn’t pitched enough to get their command back. The offense was terrible all September, and abhorrent vs LHP all year. 

This team had no chance and would have been by far the worst playoff team in the postseason. This season needed to come to an end. 

 

 

Make sure to go back and tell that to the the 2006 Cardinals. Maybe the 2011 Cardinals too.

I’d notify the Phillies/Padres/Indians that they might as well just stop playing. They had similar results this year and are WAY worse than the other remaining teams. Their seasons need to end.

When the roster is set after Spring Training can you use your crystal ball to tell me if they have any chance or not? I don’t really want to waste my time following 162 games for nothing.

[SF70]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

Watching these playoffs makes it all the more obvious that we didn't get enough for Hader. Its hard to believe that teams like Toronto, Seattle, and the LAD were not interested in Hader and wouldn't trade more than a probable 5th outfielder, backend starter and awful veteran reliever with an expiring contract for the best reliever in baseball.

As for Lamet it was all financial as the Brewers didn't want to pay his contract so the DFA was all about saving money.  

Couldn’t agree less.

How many teams would have wanted a closer that couldn’t close? Can we not remember just how bad Hader was for the month prior to the deadline?

Which one of those teams you mentioned was trading a huge prospect package for that Hader? I’ll tell you, none of them.

Thankfully Preller offered and we accepted, or this team would have been stuck with him this offseason and his diminished trade-return. We now have arguably our best pitching prospect, and near big-league ready at that, and a near top 100 prospect also near big-league ready.

Blame Stearns for the handling/communication of the trade, not the return.

[SF70]

5 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Make sure to go back and tell that to the the 2006 Cardinals. Maybe the 2011 Cardinals too.

I’d notify the Phillies/Padres/Indians that they might as well just stop playing. They had similar results this year and are WAY worse than the other remaining teams. Their seasons need to end.

When the roster is set after Spring Training can you use your crystal ball to tell me if they have any chance or not? I don’t really want to waste my time following 162 games for nothing.

Agree to disagree then. This team had too many flaws to overcome entering the postseason. Just my opinion. 

[MrTPlush]

13 minutes ago, SF70 said:

Agree to disagree then. This team had too many flaws to overcome entering the postseason. Just my opinion. 

I mean, you’re likely right, but as I said before…any Brewers team will be the short end of the stick going into October. Their odds were likely no better or worse than any other year they have made the postseason. If I was picking, last years team was the best one for a World Series run on paper and it had no better success than any other year.

 

[brewers888]

1 hour ago, SF70 said:

Couldn’t agree less.

How many teams would have wanted a closer that couldn’t close? Can we not remember just how bad Hader was for the month prior to the deadline?

Which one of those teams you mentioned was trading a huge prospect package for that Hader? I’ll tell you, none of them.

Thankfully Preller offered and we accepted, or this team would have been stuck with him this offseason and his diminished trade-return. We now have arguably our best pitching prospect, and near big-league ready at that, and a near top 100 prospect also near big-league ready.

Blame Stearns for the handling/communication of the trade, not the return.

You are conveniently ignoring that Hader has been the nest reliever in baseball over the last few seasons and using a sample of a few weeks to lower his value. No way is a probable 4/5 starter and a likely 5th outfielder a good return for the best relief pitcher in baseball. 

[SF70]

4 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

You are conveniently ignoring that Hader has been the nest reliever in baseball over the last few seasons and using a sample of a few weeks to lower his value. No way is a probable 4/5 starter and a likely 5th outfielder a good return for the best relief pitcher in baseball. 

Few weeks? More like 7 weeks, and those 7 weeks tanked his trade value. He’s back to being a 1-pitch pitcher who’s command can leave him at any time. 

You say Gasser is a 4/5 starter, I say he’s got 2/3 starter potential. Ruiz May very well be a 4th OF on this team, since they are loaded with talented OF’s, but as a trade-chip he has value.
 

[mtsportsfan]

12 hours ago, Hopper said:

The thing that really bothers me is how we handled Lamet once we got him, not to mention assuming his salary to help out the Padres.

That part of the trade absolutely stunk, and made our front office look like jackass fools.

I mean, the McGee and Lamet aspect of how things transpired is just plain asinine.

This part is what made it worse for me than anything  ! Not only did you make us worse ,  but you helped the Padres get better , a direct competitor for a play off spot. Didn't sit well and still doesn't !

[MrTPlush]

27 minutes ago, SF70 said:

Few weeks? More like 7 weeks, and those 7 weeks tanked his trade value. He’s back to being a 1-pitch pitcher who’s command can leave him at any time. 

Don't think it tanked his trade value at all. 7 weeks isn't going to tank your trade value...especially when he was bonkers productive prior to that in 2021 and had years of being the best reliever in the game. 

I think we just saw why we had held onto Hader all those deadlines/offseasons of shopping him.  Teams just aren't backing up a dump truck to rent a reliever for a year and two months these days. He just never was going to command blue chip prospects. Stearns has been willing to trade Hader for elite prospects for years...the offers never came. 

[wiguy94]

45 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

You are conveniently ignoring that Hader has been the nest reliever in baseball over the last few seasons and using a sample of a few weeks to lower his value. No way is a probable 4/5 starter and a likely 5th outfielder a good return for the best relief pitcher in baseball. 

Hader hadn't even been the best reliever in Milwaukee since DW showed up. He's not the best reliever in baseball. 

[mtsportsfan]

34 minutes ago, SF70 said:

Few weeks? More like 7 weeks, and those 7 weeks tanked his trade value. He’s back to being a 1-pitch pitcher who’s command can leave him at any time. 

You say Gasser is a 4/5 starter, I say he’s got 2/3 starter potential. Ruiz May very well be a 4th OF on this team, since they are loaded with talented OF’s, but as a trade-chip he has value.
 

You might be right , but we won't know if this trade will work out for a year or two ! The fact is this trade basically gutted our play off chance this year ! Oh yeah , Hader is looking like the Hader the last two years not the Hader of those five weeks where he struggled. We did not get enough considering it was too a direct competitor !

[sveumrules]

13 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

The trade ended up terrible. Even the guy who made the trade can accept that.

Except the trade hasn’t ended up yet.

That’s like saying the Padres won the Grisham/Urias trade after two months of a six year trade.

Rogers put up -0.6 WAR in his two months as a Brewer, Hader put up -0.9 WAR as a Padre.

How terrible (or who knows, maybe even good) the trade ends up being will have a lot more to do with the 12 years of service between Ruiz/Gasser than 10 months of Hader/Rogers.

[MrTPlush]

6 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Except the trade hasn’t ended up yet.

That’s like saying the Padres won the Grisham/Urias trade after two months of a six year trade.

Rogers put up -0.6 WAR in his two months as a Brewer, Hader put up -0.9 WAR as a Padre.

How terrible (or who knows, maybe even good) the trade ends up being will have a lot more to do with the 12 years of service between Ruiz/Gasser than 10 months of Hader/Rogers.

Depends how much you value a postseason appearance. This trade single handedly blew a postseason spot. Had it not been done I think most everyone can accept that the Brewers likely were in the postseason. Maybe not as the division winner, but certainly as a wild card. Possible they still missed it, sure, we can't exactly go back and find out....but logically, they would have made it with Hader on the team. Stearns understands that they really blew it making this trade and falsely believing the team would still be fine. It just was not a good trade. 

Could we get a bit lucky and Gasser turn into Brandon Woodruff, maybe...but it is going to take a lot for it to offset what a postseason appearance would have meant and whatever Hader would have garnered in the offseason or next deadline. Because let's not forget, keeping Hader didn't mean we would never get anything. We probably would have gotten a similar deal in the offseason or next July. As good? Maybe not on paper...but I doubt it would have been a bunch of random lottery tickets. 

I am not sure Gasser becoming a 3/4 starter is really going to make it worth it.  Missing the postseason after making this trade is a big black eye and a huge value lost. Gasser is a decent prospect, but hardly something difficult to find. We could have taken all the revenue from a wild card postseason appearance and bought a couple team's competitive balance picks. That would have been better than Gasser, in my opinion. 

[wiguy94]

9 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Depends how much you value a postseason appearance. This trade single handedly blew a postseason spot. Had it not been done I think most everyone can accept that the Brewers likely were in the postseason. Maybe not as the division winner, but certainly as a wild card. Possible they still missed it, sure, we can't exactly go back and find out....but logically, they would have made it with Hader on the team. Stearns understands that they really blew it making this trade and falsely believing the team would still be fine. It just was not a good trade. 

Why is it safe to say we would have made the playoffs? We were 25-27 between our franchise best 50 game start and the Hader trade. After the Hader trade we were 29-31 so the last 4 months of the season we won at the same rate both pre and post Hader trade.

[sveumrules]

14 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Depends how much you value a postseason appearance. This trade single handedly blew a postseason spot.

All signs point to this being our last season with a shot at a postseason appearance with Hader. If he wasn’t dealt at the deadline, he likely would have been dealt in the off-season. Ruiz/Gasser (or whoever they’re dealt for) will have multiple opportunities to help this team make the postseason.

I don’t see how Hader’s 7.31 ERA with SD guarantees us a playoff spot over Rogers 5.38 ERA with the Brewers.

No one thing single handedly blew anything, the results of 162 games are influenced by myriad factors contributing to varying degrees.

In 2021 the Brewers pitchers posted 26.3 rWAR, 3rd in MLB. In 2022 they posted 15.6 rWAR, 14th in MLB. What was supposed to be the strength of the team ended up being a mediocrity.

Sure, win two more games after the deadline (or any other time in the season) and you make the playoffs. That’s worth some percentage points.

But the pitching staff as a whole dropping 10+ wins from Top 3 down to middle of the pack would get a lot more of the percentage points for me.

[sveumrules]

3 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

When the roster is set after Spring Training can you use your crystal ball to tell me if they have any chance or not? I don’t really want to waste my time following 162 games for nothing.

Obviously the details are what make everything interesting, but in a macro sense we know the math is stacked against us even at our best.

50/50 to win the division with a shot at the Wild Card if they don’t, and about a 5-10% chance to win the WS if they make the playoffs. FanGraphs had us at 10.6% to win WS last year at the start of the playoffs.

At the start of this postseason, FanGraphs had the WS odds for each of the teams at HOU (17.2%), ATL (16.9%), LAD (15.3%), NYM (11.6%), NYY (10.0%), PHI (5.9%), SDP (5.1%), TOR (5.0%), TB (4.4%), SEA (4.1%), STL (2.7%) and CLE (1.8%). 

So we prolly missed out on a 5-6% WS shot this year. Would I have preferred that over zero? For sure, but even in an expanded playoff field and only like half the league really trying somebody is going to just miss out.

Per Spotrac the 6 NL teams with the highest payrollS made the playoffs with STL lowest at $170M, 12th overall. Brewers were 19th at $143M.

Given the current economic reality of MLB the Brewers are going to be facing an uphill battle every year to crack that Top 6, much less land one of the Top 2 spots that really set up teams for the hypothetically cleanest path to the WS.

[NBBrewFan]

4 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Per Spotrac the 6 NL teams with the highest payrollS made the playoffs with STL lowest at $170M, 12th overall. Brewers were 19th at $143M.

Given the current economic reality of MLB the Brewers are going to be facing an uphill battle every year to crack that Top 6, much less land one of the Top 2 spots that really set up teams for the hypothetically cleanest path to the WS.

Who's the bigger fool - the fans who think the Brewers have a chance at their current payroll rank or the fans who think the Brewers should spend more to put a competitive team on the field?

[MrTPlush]

1 hour ago, NBBrewFan said:

Who's the bigger fool - the fans who think the Brewers have a chance at their current payroll rank or the fans who think the Brewers should spend more to put a competitive team on the field?

All of us, all of us.