Ding dong, the shift is dead. Long live the pitch clock.

[jerichoholicninja]

9 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Because from a spectating perspective it's awful, borderline making a farce of the game.

When it happened a couple of times a season, it was a novelty. Now that it's happening constantly, it's bad for the sport by intentionally fielding uncompetitive play after people paid money to watch the event.

Why is it awful? 99% of the time when they pitch the game is out of reach. Would you rather burn an actual pitcher that could help you win tomorrow or just throw someone out there to lob the ball over the plate to get the game over? The vast majority of new rules the last few years are addressing problems that don't even exist and other ones like this continue to take any actual strategy or managing out of the game.

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 minute ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Why is it awful? 99% of the time when they pitch the game is out of reach. Would you rather burn an actual pitcher that could help you win tomorrow or just throw someone out there to lob the ball over the plate to get the game over? The vast majority of new rules the last few years are addressing problems that don't even exist and other ones like this continue to take any actual strategy or managing out of the game.

What strategy is there in throwing out a position player who throws 73mph so Anthony Rendon can literally stand on the wrong side of the plate and hit a home run?

And how does putting a non-pitcher on the mound "get the game over with"? If anything, it only prolongs the agony.

[jerichoholicninja]

1 minute ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

What strategy is there in throwing out a position player who throws 73mph so Anthony Rendon can literally stand on the wrong side of the plate and hit a home run?

And how does putting a non-pitcher on the mound "get the game over with"? If anything, it only prolongs the agony.

The strategy is saving the bullpen. Getting the game over with means you need someone on the mound to throw a pitch so why waste a pitcher. No different than a team running the ball up the middle every play with the 4th string RB when they're down 3 td's with 2 minutes left in the game. 

[homer]

It was happening almost once a day. I'm glad they reduced it. 

[sveumrules]

2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

If anything, it only prolongs the agony.

Yup. Innings with position players pitching tend to take longer due to everybody teeing off on them & MLB want to shave as much time as possible off that average game length.

Rendon hitting that lefty bomb was hilarious though.

[Brock Beauchamp]

9 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Rendon hitting that lefty bomb was hilarious though.

Oh, it was absolutely epic, no doubt. 

[SomewhereInTime]

10 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Because from a spectating perspective it's awful, borderline making a farce of the game.

When it happened a couple of times a season, it was a novelty. Now that it's happening constantly, it's bad for the sport by intentionally fielding uncompetitive play after people paid money to watch the event.

Exactly this.  It's the big leagues, there should be no run rules or forfeiting.  Finish the game with a pitcher on the mound and never give up at bats.

[SomewhereInTime]

10 hours ago, jerichoholicninja said:

The strategy is saving the bullpen. Getting the game over with means you need someone on the mound to throw a pitch so why waste a pitcher. No different than a team running the ball up the middle every play with the 4th string RB when they're down 3 td's with 2 minutes left in the game. 

Teams have 13+ pitchers on a roster these days.  Most pitchers aren't throwing enough innings anyway, only in the most extreme circumstances is no one available.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Catching up on some of this, and on board with most of it.

The shift rule, though....ew. Let me rephrase. It makes me feel really icky while I recognize it's probably necessary to do SOMETHING. Hitters have had plenty of time to adjust, and it hasn't happened.

So, my conflict:

I had the idea of reducing the freedom of the game. It's one of the things I love about baseball. Sure, the pitch clock does this in some sense, but it seems much more tailored to cutting on down on the rude kind of selfish freedom that no one likes (basically just delaying the game out of personal preference). The shift actually restricts player movement, at least pre-pitch. We'll see how many pitches have infielders scrambling to reposition once the ball leaves the pitchers hand---that might be a little bit fun. Basically, I just wish there was a way to avoid imposing rigid boundaries on fielders. Seems against the spirit of the game in ways that make me squirm.

The bigger issue is: it seems to cut against the goal of reducing game time by quite a bit? I mean, I guess it encourages balls in play, but the "penalty" is weird--take the result of the play or make the pitch a ball? I hate that. Why not just make it "result of the play, or everyone, batter included, advances one base? Even if you got situations where, like, I don't know, the defensive team shifted illegally, resulting in the batter making an out, but a runner scored from first on an ensuing bad throw, the offensive team would have a decision to make (like the NFL: do we take the holding call on 3rd and 4 after an incomplete pass?). The "add a ball" just seems dumb.

Anyway. On board with most of the rest of it.

 

 

[owbc]

2 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Catching up on some of this, and on board with most of it.

The shift rule, though....ew. Let me rephrase. It makes me feel really icky while I recognize it's probably necessary to do SOMETHING. Hitters have had plenty of time to adjust, and it hasn't happened.

So, my conflict:

I had the idea of reducing the freedom of the game. It's one of the things I love about baseball. Sure, the pitch clock does this in some sense, but it seems much more tailored to cutting on down on the rude kind of selfish freedom that no one likes (basically just delaying the game out of personal preference). The shift actually restricts player movement, at least pre-pitch. We'll see how many pitches have infielders scrambling to reposition once the ball leaves the pitchers hand---that might be a little bit fun. Basically, I just wish there was a way to avoid imposing rigid boundaries on fielders. Seems against the spirit of the game in ways that make me squirm.

The bigger issue is: it seems to cut against the goal of reducing game time by quite a bit? I mean, I guess it encourages balls in play, but the "penalty" is weird--take the result of the play or make the pitch a ball? I hate that. Why not just make it "result of the play, or everyone, batter included, advances one base? Even if you got situations where, like, I don't know, the defensive team shifted illegally, resulting in the batter making an out, but a runner scored from first on an ensuing bad throw, the offensive team would have a decision to make (like the NFL: do we take the holding call on 3rd and 4 after an incomplete pass?). The "add a ball" just seems dumb.

Anyway. On board with most of the rest of it.

From what I've heard, infield repositioning after the pitch isn't going to be a thing. There isn't any reason for them to be moving laterally because they are still going to cover the right side gap against lefties. The only difference is that the SS can't go any farther over than directly behind 2B and the 2B can't be on the outfield grass while covering the gap. 

A 5-man infield is also still legal.

I think the penalty is irrelevant, it's probably something that will get called like 3 times per season. 

[owbc]

My "way too early" reaction from watching one inning of spring training -- the 20 second limit with runners on really speeds things up. The usual slowdown with runners on base disappears. Especially when a pitcher looks like he might be laboring out there. No ability to slow down the game, gotta keep throwing the ball. 

[brewcrewdue80]

Mlb has the ghost runner in extra innings. Games should be over consistently sooner. RPs should be pitching in games and not "saved" we learned awhile ago with Hader the best RP should be pitching the most important time for him out there. 7th, 8th, or 9th.  Teams need to have 2 closer quality RPs, 2 Setup quality pitchers and 2 long men less quality pitchers.  The rest are the shuttlers  up and down through the minors and back. A team should have the next days Starter on Standby in case that day's Starter suffers an injury or ejection in 1st or 2nd inning. Team would call up an emergency starter for the next game. Would be a great rule to allow teams the bonus SP in that situation like an extra player for double headers.

The jist of this is 3 batter minimum, shorter extra inning games. RPs and babying their workload needs to go away. Multiple position players pitching innings for teams vs one who can duo like Ohtani. Not helping the game move along.

Maybe the game needs a SP rule where Starters are pushed to pitch at least a 3rd time through the top 4 hitters in a lineup before allowed to be pulled by a manager. Or the SP has thrown 100+pitches.  Team needs to declare the SP that is limited to below 100 pitches before game is started and removed at the teams declared limit.

The way to bring back hitting to Baseball.

[homer]

 

[jerichoholicninja]

I hate that there has been a clock and penalties brought into baseball but these guys just need to quick dicking around and get in the box or throw the ball.

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, jerichoholicninja said:

I hate that there has been a clock and penalties brought into baseball but these guys just need to quick dicking around and get in the box or throw the ball.

Players have brought this on themselves. I have no sympathy for them in this regard. 

[homer]

yeah, no one needs to spend  30 seconds adjusting wrist bands. (Ryan Braun wept)

[MrTPlush]

The Braves ended the game today with a pitch violation as the Braves batter was not ready at 8 seconds. 

[DuWayne Steurer]

9 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

The Braves ended the game today with a pitch violation as the Braves batter was not ready at 8 seconds. 

The wild thing is, the batter had both feet in the box, and the pitcher wasn't set, and the catcher was still standing up. The batter wasn't "Looking" at the pitcher, so he wasn't set I guess? This is dumb, and MLB needs to figure it out. 

It does seem like a great opportunity for umps to bully-flex on the players in a new, creative way though, so we do have that. 

 

[MrTPlush]

14 minutes ago, DuWayne Steurer said:

The wild thing is, the batter had both feet in the box, and the pitcher wasn't set, and the catcher was still standing up. The batter wasn't "Looking" at the pitcher, so he wasn't set I guess? This is dumb, and MLB needs to figure it out. 

It does seem like a great opportunity for umps to bully-flex on the players in a new, creative way though, so we do have that. 

 

Yah…my first thought was, “Why is it necessary to have a punishment for the batter?” If the batter isn’t ready at 8 seconds just let the pitcher pitch if he is ready. If the pitcher isn’t ready at 8 seconds himself…then where is the harm? 

The last thing baseball needs is cringe moments in the game like what happened to the Braves. At least make the pitcher throw the ball and not have it be an automatic strike.

[KeithStone53151]

50 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Yah…my first thought was, “Why is it necessary to have a punishment for the batter?” If the batter isn’t ready at 8 seconds just let the pitcher pitch if he is ready. If the pitcher isn’t ready at 8 seconds himself…then where is the harm? 

The last thing baseball needs is cringe moments in the game like what happened to the Braves. At least make the pitcher throw the ball and not have it be an automatic strike.

I'm hopeful all sides sort this thing out before the regular season. Can you imagine a game that matters ending that way?

One question. I assume the pitch clock gets paused or something if a batter takes a foul ball off the shin or the catcher gets his bell rung on a foul?

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

I'm hopeful all sides sort this thing out before the regular season. Can you imagine a game that matters ending that way?

One question. I assume the pitch clock gets paused or something if a batter takes a foul ball off the shin or the catcher gets his bell rung on a foul?

The ump can call time whenever they please, same as always. 

[DuWayne Steurer]

I wanna see an ump take a foul tip to the church bells, and the pitcher, catcher and batter all impatiently telling him to get in there, as the pitch clock winds down. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

I read somewhere that in the minors two infractions a game were called in the first two weeks, then the following two weeks it was one infraction every other game.

That’s without players and umps having a spring training to acclimate. I really don’t think this will be an issue, like at all. 

[brewcrewdue80]

11 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

The Braves ended the game today with a pitch violation as the Braves batter was not ready at 8 seconds. 

Reading the inning play by play. Braves down 6-3, scored 3 runs, had the bases loaded with 1 out. 5 straight strikes left the batter 0-2 bases loaded with 2outs.  Ump calls the auto strike for time ends the game.

Does the pitcher get the strikeout for his stats? The save?

Immediately brought to mind on Vegas and ending a comeback this way. So in the 9th inning and later in games, there maybe needs to add seconds to not see a game be determined this way. Or remove the pitch clock? Though a closer blowing up walking batters makes for a very long inning. I'm just wondering if they have sped the game up through 8innings, how bad is it to allow the 9th leeway on the rules?  

How about giving a SP who reaches the 8th and 9th innings an added 2secs in each of those innings? Complete game performance, no hitter going, or perfect game going? 

Maybe that's all the adjustment is needed. Add 2 secs for 8th inning for both sides. Make it a total 4secs added in 9th inning. So it becomes clear when an infraction happens, you can't get upset with the ump.

[Brock Beauchamp]

4 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Reading the inning play by play. Braves down 6-3, scored 3 runs, had the bases loaded with 1 out. 5 straight strikes left the batter 0-2 bases loaded with 2outs.  Ump calls the auto strike for time ends the game.

Does the pitcher get the strikeout for his stats? The save?

Immediately brought to mind on Vegas and ending a comeback this way. So in the 9th inning and later in games, there maybe needs to add seconds to not see a game be determined this way. Or remove the pitch clock? Though a closer blowing up walking batters makes for a very long inning. I'm just wondering if they have sped the game up through 8innings, how bad is it to allow the 9th leeway on the rules?  

How about giving a SP who reaches the 8th and 9th innings an added 2secs in each of those innings? Complete game performance, no hitter going, or perfect game going? 

Maybe that's all the adjustment is needed. Add 2 secs for 8th inning for both sides. Make it a total 4secs added in 9th inning. So it becomes clear when an infraction happens, you can't get upset with the ump.

That adds complexity and would likely result in both players and umps being even more confused.

This was literally the first game on the first day of the new rule during a game that doesn't matter in the slightest bit. The consternation over this seems way out of proportion.