2023 NFL Discussion Thread

[homer]

Bears gonna blow this one too? 

[nate82]

3 minutes ago, homer said:

Bears gonna blow this one too? 

I hope so I want the 1st and 2nd pick in the draft!!!

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, nate82 said:

I hope so I want the 1st and 2nd pick in the draft!!!

And Caleb Williams is gonna stay at USC if that happens! It's alright...you could still come out of the draft with a franchise LT and Maye...who's similar to Luck(physically). 

 

Though...Detroit figured it out, so...at SOME point Chicago has to accidentally figure it out, right?

[Fear The Chorizo]

8 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

And Caleb Williams is gonna stay at USC if that happens! It's alright...you could still come out of the draft with a franchise LT and Maye...who's similar to Luck(physically). 

 

Though...Detroit figured it out, so...at SOME point Chicago has to accidentally figure it out, right?

Slow down a bit - Detroit figuring it out at this point means they're not a perennial NFL doormat.  It's borderline impossible for NFL organizations to NOT be good for a 2-3 year window every so often based on the draft and scheduling systems put into place - but without a franchise-altering quarterback there's only so far you're going to go in terms of winning titles and maintaining consistent on-field success.  Jared Goff is not that guy longterm for them, so they still have the most important position to figure out if they want to be serious about being among the NFL's perennial elites.

The Bears are just a few seasons removed from being the perceived "best team in the NFC North, with the brightest future", and then their organization made a bunch of horrific personnel decisions and wound up right back down at the bottom of the heap in rapid fashion.

[nate82]

10 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

And Caleb Williams is gonna stay at USC if that happens! It's alright...you could still come out of the draft with a franchise LT and Maye...who's similar to Luck(physically). 

There has been rumors of this but also rumors to the contrary.  It probably just becomes a Eli Manning situation.  I think the Bears give Fields one more year but I don't think they should but they will.  If the Bears get the #1 and #2 I wouldn't be surprised if they trade one or both.  They should get a haul for one of their first round picks in the next draft even if Williams doesn't want to play for Chicago that pick will still be valuable as there will be a bunch of teams that will want to trade up for him. 

The Bears so far look like they will get the #1 pick.  I think the Raiders are better than their record is and they will be back in the 10-15 range.  The Cardinals will have two picks in the 1st round also and if they don't believe Murray is going to be able to come back the Bears could receive two 5-15 picks from them along with probably the Cardinals 2nd round pick.  There is still a lot of the season left so still a lot of things that could happen between now and the end of the season. 

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, nate82 said:

There has been rumors of this but also rumors to the contrary.  It probably just becomes a Eli Manning situation.  I think the Bears give Fields one more year but I don't think they should but they will.  If the Bears get the #1 and #2 I wouldn't be surprised if they trade one or both.  They should get a haul for one of their first round picks in the next draft even if Williams doesn't want to play for Chicago that pick will still be valuable as there will be a bunch of teams that will want to trade up for him. 

The Bears so far look like they will get the #1 pick.  I think the Raiders are better than their record is and they will be back in the 10-15 range.  The Cardinals will have two picks in the 1st round also and if they don't believe Murray is going to be able to come back the Bears could receive two 5-15 picks from them along with probably the Cardinals 2nd round pick.  There is still a lot of the season left so still a lot of things that could happen between now and the end of the season. 

I don't actually think Caleb Williams is going to pass up going to Chicago and trying to turn that franchise around. I was trying to talk **** to a Bears fan!

And frankly, if he does do that, I'd lose respect for him. You have the chance to go to one of the...great sports cities(that almost made me puke to write) and turning around the Bears and you choose to not do that because it's too hard? If he's really "like if Patrick Mahomes went back to College," then he should be confident anywhere.

 

According to one guy who covers the Bears(it's on Twitter, so take it with the smallest possible grain of salt that it's worth), he said there's "literally nothing" Justin Fields can do between now and the draft to stop the Bears from taking Williams if they have the 1st pick. 

I think it's pretty simple. If Caleb Williams is the QB prospect everyone says he is, and if Fashanu is the "Orlando Pace like LT prospect," you do that. You take Williams, you put Fashanu at LT, you have two ELITE OTs and a Franchise QB and you buy back ownership to your franchise. You could have a really good offense next year. And beyond that, there are so many edge prospects who are FAs. As of now it looks like Gary, Allen, Burns, Sweat, Young. You can address the defense later but I don't see how they pass up a draft that would set them up with an offense that would probably be really good the first year. Moore, Mooney, Kmet, Johnson, Herbert. 

I am genuinely rooting for the Bears to keep Justin Fields for one more year as a result of all this. I hope they focus on the defensive side of the ball and hedge their bets. I don't think they will if they're picking 1-2 of just have the #1 pick. 

[BrewerFan]

7 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Slow down a bit - Detroit figuring it out at this point means they're not a perennial NFL doormat.  It's borderline impossible for NFL organizations to NOT be good for a 2-3 year window every so often based on the draft and scheduling systems put into place - but without a franchise-altering quarterback there's only so far you're going to go in terms of winning titles and maintaining consistent on-field success.  Jared Goff is not that guy longterm for them, so they still have the most important position to figure out if they want to be serious about being among the NFL's perennial elites.

The Bears are just a few seasons removed from being the perceived "best team in the NFC North, with the brightest future", and then their organization made a bunch of horrific personnel decisions and wound up right back down at the bottom of the heap in rapid fashion.

I think Detroit has figured it out. I don't think you need elite QB play if you have elite players around him...and I think the Lions have just that. They've been a perennial doormat, I don't think they are any longer. 

I don't recall the Bears ever being viewed as having the brightest future of anyone in the NFL North in the recent past. I don't think anyone really thought Trubisky was an elite QB and they certainly didn't have a great team around him. 

The culture in Detroit has changed, their infrastructure has changed. I don't think they're a doormat any longer. They may have a ceiling with Goff. The Rams did. But they can still be a really good team. And we still haven't seen that team at full strength yet. 

[nate82]

6 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

I don't actually think Caleb Williams is going to pass up going to Chicago and trying to turn that franchise around.

The people that cover the Bears on The Athletic said the same thing with the caveat that if he truly doesn't want to play in Chicago it is basically just a Eli Manning situation.  The Bears could actually benefit from that.  I am not sold on Caleb Williams being that Peyton Manning or Joe Burrow type of QB.  I think it will take him longer to adapt to the NFL and it won't be as quick as like Manning and Burrow adapted to the league.  The Bears are definitely taking another OL in the 1st round either with their pick or the Panthers pick. 

Even if they draft Williams #1 they should get enough offers where they could move down from their other pick and get a good OL.  The Patriots are probably a team that may move up to get that other QB to replace who they have now.  I am not sure Maye is worth the #2 pick but someone who would want to draft Harrison Jr. at the #2 spot is also another option. 

[BrewerFan]

5 minutes ago, nate82 said:

The people that cover the Bears on The Athletic said the same thing with the caveat that if he truly doesn't want to play in Chicago it is basically just a Eli Manning situation.  The Bears could actually benefit from that.  I am not sold on Caleb Williams being that Peyton Manning or Joe Burrow type of QB.  I think it will take him longer to adapt to the NFL and it won't be as quick as like Manning and Burrow adapted to the league.  The Bears are definitely taking another OL in the 1st round either with their pick or the Panthers pick. 

Even if they draft Williams #1 they should get enough offers where they could move down from their other pick and get a good OL.  The Patriots are probably a team that may move up to get that other QB to replace who they have now.  I am not sure Maye is worth the #2 pick but someone who would want to draft Harrison Jr. at the #2 spot is also another option. 

I think both Williams and Maye are franchise type QBs. Maye reminds me of an Andrew Luck physically. He's a big guy, strong arm, mobile and I think he goes #1 in most drafts.

I do think Williams is on the same level as those QBs. 

If the Bears end up with the 1st AND 2nd picks...I think they'll be able to get a massive haul for either. The #1 would be an enormous haul. I think him pulling an Eli would hurt him as he'd probably have his own idea where he'd want to go. 

But setting that aside, if you get the top 2 picks, the #2 pick then effectively has the value of a #1 pick in most drafts. 

IF they could trade that 2nd pick and move down just a few spots and pick up a future 1st+ and still get Fashanu, or whomever ends up being the top OT prospect...Alt looks incredible to me, Mims was a 5 star recruit who looks elite...but perhaps a future RT, maybe Latham...I don't know, but they'll be good. 

 

I think Poles made a brilliant trade last year. Even not taking Carter and drafting Wright was a good move IMO. He looks like a franchise LT. I think you can win with EITHER an elite OL and a good QB or an elite QB and a solid OL. If you're elite in both regards, you'll be a contender every year. 

We'll see, but it has me actively rooting for the Bears. 

[GAME05]

Sure a big risk to pass up #1 overall money to try not to get inured another year in order to make #1 overall money. Plus still a good chance the next #1 overall team is equally bad at developing QBs. Plus the Bears will be starting over with a brand new coaching staff specifically hired to develop YOU.

If it's the Bears they take Williams and Fashanu. If it's the Cardinals they take Williams and that WR Harrison. Murray only has a $13M dead cap hit if he's traded, though I can't imagine they could land much in return. Murray is eligible to come off the PUP list, but the team hasn't bothered doing so. They're done with him and wouldn't want to interrupt from their tank season.

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, GAME05 said:

Sure a big risk to pass up #1 overall money to try not to get inured another year in order to make #1 overall money. Plus still a good chance the next #1 overall team is equally bad at developing QBs. Plus the Bears will be starting over with a brand new coaching staff specifically hired to develop YOU.

If it's the Bears they take Williams and Fashanu. If it's the Cardinals they take Williams and that WR Harrison. Murray only has a $13M dead cap hit if he's traded, though I can't imagine they could land much in return. Murray is eligible to come off the PUP list, but the team hasn't bothered doing so. They're done with him and wouldn't want to interrupt from their tank season.

I'm not taking a shot at the Bears...but is anyone Bears level bad at developing QBs outside of Cleveland? They're particularly bad. 

As for AZ, just 13M in dead cap, but more importantly, they'd save cap space. ~5M and they'd be almost 75M under the cap.  

Arizona gets to start over and trade Murray. Plus, he's a pretty good young QB, though AZ will probably be happy just to move off him. I'd guess Atlanta might be interested at that price and then AZ gets a high 2nd. Win-Win.

 

Those two teams are likely to completely change the direction of their franchise though. I think this will be a historic draft class. If ever there was a class to have two picks.

And I think people are really sleeping on Maye as well. He's a unique prospect;

 

[HarryDoyle]

If it makes me this sick to see how good the Lions are, I can only imagine what it would feel like if the Vikings and Bears were good.

[HarryDoyle]

That Bears-Panthers trade is looking worse and worse for Carolina.

[yourout]

Anyone else think Lamar Jackson looks like Samuel L?

 

[HarryDoyle]

Mac Jones and Daniel Jones at the ESPYs next year.

[yourout]

3 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

If it makes me this sick to see how good the Lions are, I can only imagine what it would feel like if the Vikings and Bears were good.

They finally got a good GM and a really good coach.

[yourout]

The Vikes will still likely finish a close. second to the lions.

The Packers will be a very distant 3rd.

[HarryDoyle]

LOL Sean Payton.

[nate82]

The 49ers look to be the best team in the NFC by a wide margin.  

[adambr2]

As much as I hate the 49ers I have to envy what they've built as an organization because they are so far ahead of us (and most others) that it's really hard to even have any realistic Super Bowl aspirations anytime soon. You can pick apart a weakness on basically any team and they just do not have one. 

I guess all I can say is thank goodness they whiffed so badly on Trey Lance and gave up so much to get him because God only knows how they'd look if they hadn't done that. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

4 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

As much as I hate the 49ers I have to envy what they've built as an organization because they are so far ahead of us (and most others) that it's really hard to even have any realistic Super Bowl aspirations anytime soon. You can pick apart a weakness on basically any team and they just do not have one. 

I guess all I can say is thank goodness they whiffed so badly on Trey Lance and gave up so much to get him because God only knows how they'd look if they hadn't done that. 

Still a looooong ways to go until winning time in the playoffs, and weaknesses show up in a big hurry with a few key injuries.  Yes, the 49ers appear to be the best team in the NFC right now - but Philly and perhaps even Detroit probably could make solid cases to the otherwise.  If the 49ers stay healthy on defense, Kittle stays healthy,  and McCaffrey doesn't suffer his annual injury that causes him to be a shell of his healthy self for a few months, then I'd expect them to be the favorite to reach the Super Bowl.

It's also tough to make out what the Cowboys actually are (3-1 with wins against both putrid NY teams and the lowly pats, with a loss to the Cards), and besides them the 49ers haven't exactly played anyone worth a darn yet this season.

[homer]

20 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

As much as I hate the 49ers I have to envy what they've built as an organization because they are so far ahead of us (and most others) that it's really hard to even have any realistic Super Bowl aspirations anytime soon. You can pick apart a weakness on basically any team and they just do not have one. 

And they could be even better. They traded a kings ransom to draft Trey Lance. 

[adambr2]

11 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Still a looooong ways to go until winning time in the playoffs, and weaknesses show up in a big hurry with a few key injuries.  Yes, the 49ers appear to be the best team in the NFC right now - but Philly and perhaps even Detroit probably could make solid cases to the otherwise.  If the 49ers stay healthy on defense, Kittle stays healthy,  and McCaffrey doesn't suffer his annual injury that causes him to be a shell of his healthy self for a few months, then I'd expect them to be the favorite to reach the Super Bowl.

It's also tough to make out what the Cowboys actually are (3-1 with wins against both putrid NY teams and the lowly pats, with a loss to the Cards), and besides them the 49ers haven't exactly played anyone worth a darn yet this season.

I don't know who you want to see them play, but this is a pretty convincing dismantling. Yeah it's true that teams like the Eagles or Dolphins could potentially give them a fight-- that's just the NFL, too much parity to see a 20-0 team, I think. 

It's not like they've played the Broncos, Bears, Panthers and Cardinals to start the season. I don't think there's really any downplaying how good they look. It's true that who you look like in Week 5 isn't necessarily the same team as you'll see in January.

[Fear The Chorizo]

3 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

I don't know who you want to see them play, but this is a pretty convincing dismantling. Yeah it's true that teams like the Eagles or Dolphins could potentially give them a fight-- that's just the NFL, too much parity to see a 20-0 team, I think. 

It's not like they've played the Broncos, Bears, Panthers and Cardinals to start the season. I don't think there's really any downplaying how good they look. It's true that who you look like in Week 5 isn't necessarily the same team as you'll see in January.

My point is, it's early - and they've played great against 5 teams so far this season that have a better chance at all missing the playoffs entirely than two of them making the postseason.

 

[adambr2]

7 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

My point is, it's early - and they've played great against 5 teams so far this season that have a better chance at all missing the playoffs entirely than two of them making the postseason.

 

I'd disagree-- Dallas looks pretty likely to make it to me ....Pittsburgh sucks, but they lead their division, somehow. 

The Rams look pretty competent to me and got Kupp back. I don't know if they'll make the playoffs, but I could see 9-8 and a shot.