2023 NFL Discussion Thread

[Fear The Chorizo]

Just now, Jopal78 said:

An Achilles tear is a more gruesome injury than an ACL. Requires non-weight earring status for weeks. Rodgers might feel he has something to prove, but a 40 year old man rehabbing that injury to play in the NFL again seems like a tall order.

Agreed...but he'd have basically a full calendar year, and he would probably know by the end of this season if playing next September could happen or not.  It's not like he blew it out in mid-november

If he played any other position than qb, I'd say he's absolutely done.  But an Achilles on his non-plant leg?  I could see him returning next fall (or at least giving rehab a go long enough to determine if it's realistic or not)

[Joseph Zarr]

Man, what a terrible blow to Rodgers and the Jets. They put all the chips into the center. And, they got what, 6 snaps? Woof. Just awful awful luck.

$75 Milly guaranteed. The Lazard contract. Cobby. 

That defense is very very good. But, what are they going to do now? They have to try and entice a Vet no? Brutal.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

They have to run with Wilson for a bit. He shouldn't be on the roster if he doesn't get a few weeks. 

Idk. Carson Wentz? 

[HarryDoyle]

8 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

They have to run with Wilson for a bit. He shouldn't be on the roster if he doesn't get a few weeks. 

Idk. Carson Wentz? 

[HarryDoyle]

[patrickgpe]

7 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Agreed...but he'd have basically a full calendar year, and he would probably know by the end of this season if playing next September could happen or not.  It's not like he blew it out in mid-november

If he played any other position than qb, I'd say he's absolutely done.  But an Achilles on his non-plant leg?  I could see him returning next fall (or at least giving rehab a go long enough to determine if it's realistic or not)

No was he is going out like this. 

[areacodes]

2 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

Can you imagine the hit to Rodgers ego if Brady would come in and lead the Jets to the Super Bowl or something?

[homer]

isn't Brady a minority owner of the Raiders? I think he'd have to sell his shares in order to play again

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, homer said:

isn't Brady a minority owner of the Raiders? I think he'd have to sell his shares in order to play again

He could, but how hard would that be? Transfer them back to Davis with an agreement that he gets them back or some other deal. I don't know how that'd work, but I don't think THAT is what would stop him.

I think it's the fact that their OL is not good.

[homer]

12 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

He could, but how hard would that be? Transfer them back to Davis with an agreement that he gets them back or some other deal. I don't know how that'd work, but I don't think THAT is what would stop him.

I think it's the fact that their OL is not good.

hard

"An unnamed source has floated to Vincent Bonsignore of the Las Vegas Review-Journal the possibility the owners requiring a commitment from Brady that he’s done playing, before they agree to approve his purchase of a minority share of the team. Even without that, a return to game action by Brady would require all 32 owners to consent. Otherwise, Brady would have to sell his piece of the team before playing" 

[BrewerFan]

3 minutes ago, homer said:

hard

"An unnamed source has floated to Vincent Bonsignore of the Las Vegas Review-Journal the possibility the owners requiring a commitment from Brady that he’s done playing, before they agree to approve his purchase of a minority share of the team. Even without that, a return to game action by Brady would require all 32 owners to consent. Otherwise, Brady would have to sell his piece of the team before playing" 

You just highlighted the part saying he'd have to "sell back" his ownership share. 

He bought a very small % from the 53% that the Davis families own. Davis buys it back and he can play. 

I don't think THAT is what's going to stop him from playing if he wanted to.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think they have to stick with Wilson for now, and if he craters the team over the next few weeks then you try bringing in a veteran street FA (Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, perhaps?), or trade for a backup from somewhere else at the deadline that might have some longterm upside for the organization...Trey Lance?

[BrewerFan]

10 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I don't think he's going to play again. I don't know him personally but I can't see him rehabbing that to the point he can play at his age. He has things going off the field, I think he will take it as a sign from the cosmos to move on. 

I'm so split on this. I've torn an ACL, I've done a lot of stuff...and rehabbing for the NFL is SO much different and you're pushing all of it earlier than I would have(and I was 21). 

But from what I've heard, rehabbing from an Achilles is just magnitudes more difficult than an ACL(I can imagine a real, significant back injury would be the worst rehab you could deal with, but I'm lucky to not know). 

So on the one hand, 40, the worst possible rehab you could go through outside of a significant back injury..

On the other hand, if Aaron Rodgers gonna go through ALL this buildup with the New York Jets and now just walk away?

 

I can't answer that. I know he wants to stick it to the Packers, to prove them wrong. I don't know how much pain he's willing to take to do that...but it wouldn't surprise me to see him go through it and come back from it...OR get a couple months in and ask, "why the hell am I putting myself through this at my age with my legacy."

[BrewerFan]

6 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I think they have to stick with Wilson for now, and if he craters the team over the next few weeks then you try bringing in a veteran street FA (Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, perhaps?), or trade for a backup from somewhere else at the deadline that might have some longterm upside for the organization...Trey Lance?

Carson Wentz is really the only plausible veteran I can see who has...even the CHANCE to come back and have success. 

He hasn't been good, but he hasn't been as bad as people would lead you to believe. I think without looking it's like 38 TDs and 14 picks(Something like that) the last two years.

He's only 30-31. 

Winston maybe? The problem is they're both so turnover prone.

 

Also, if Rodgers is done, the Jets have a 66M dollar dead cap hit next year from Rodgers(he'll be on the roster either way, just pointing out even with the 'paycut' how much the Jets still have invested in him financially. 

2025 it's a 51M cap hit vs a 49M dead cap. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Yeah, for all the roses thrown Rodgers' way to restructure his deal in effort to get other players into the mix this season, it's the same story Packer fans have grown accustomed to for future seasons with extending present cap problems into the future.

This is a complete and total disaster for the Jets in terms of longterm strength of their roster.  

[GAME05]

A youtube doctor was looking at the injury and you could see Rodgers' calf muscle release while his foot is on the ground. The guy said what would cause that is either an achilles injury or there's some tertiary muscle in the calf which, if it tears, can also cause the muscle to release like that and that particular injury isn't very serious since its little-used. 

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, BrewerFan said:

I'm so split on this. I've torn an ACL, I've done a lot of stuff...and rehabbing for the NFL is SO much different and you're pushing all of it earlier than I would have(and I was 21). 

But from what I've heard, rehabbing from an Achilles is just magnitudes more difficult than an ACL(I can imagine a real, significant back injury would be the worst rehab you could deal with, but I'm lucky to not know). 

So on the one hand, 40, the worst possible rehab you could go through outside of a significant back injury..

On the other hand, if Aaron Rodgers gonna go through ALL this buildup with the New York Jets and now just walk away?

 

I can't answer that. I know he wants to stick it to the Packers, to prove them wrong. I don't know how much pain he's willing to take to do that...but it wouldn't surprise me to see him go through it and come back from it...OR get a couple months in and ask, "why the hell am I putting myself through this at my age with my legacy."

A major injury at 40, he could ride off in the sunset with no blowback, “I wanted to come back but my body won’t allow me to at the level I feel I need to play to the standards I’ve set in my career”. 
 

Although probably would feel like a chump to an extent, leaving GB, going to the Jets, taking a pay cut of his guaranteed salary then playing for 4 minutes before suffering a career ending injury. 

[Samurai Bucky]

I was wondering if the surface might have had something to do with the injury.  MetLife Stadium has Fieldturf.  However, M&T Bank Stadium, where Dobbins was playing, has a natural Bermuda grass.

Freak injuries for both.

[RobDeer 45]

I think Rodgers has a really tough rehab ahead of him and I've never thought he was much of a grinder when it came to the working out side of football.  I could be wrong on that.  I know he works on his throwing craft a lot, but he's more yoga and stretching isn't he?  I could see this being the end, but I hope he actually tries to come back.

 

The Jets need a game manager that can also get the ball to Garrett Wilson.  I'm not sure who that is but I don't think it's Zack.  My trade candidates would be Winston or Minshew.  I think I'd take Nick Foles over Wentz.  Cam doesn't make sense, he can't throw.

 

I honestly think Brady should consider.  They are super bowl ready.

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

A major injury at 40, he could ride off in the sunset with no blowback, “I wanted to come back but my body won’t allow me to at the level I feel I need to play to the standards I’ve set in my career”. 
 

Although probably would feel like a chump to an extent, leaving GB, going to the Jets, taking a pay cut of his guaranteed salary then playing for 4 minutes before suffering a career ending injury. 

He definitely has an out. He can definitely say...like you said, "I'm 40, I wanted to play for the Jets for 3 years, but I tore my Achilles, I'm gonna be 41 the year I come back, it's a grueling rehab, I need to walk away."

But the key is would HE feel like a chump or like he's still got something to prove? I think so. He clearly did this year. I don't think getting injured after 4 snaps changes that.

I also truly he was absolutely planning on coming back to GB the whole time. Then he goes into the darkness, the Packers float the idea of trading him, the Jets are interested, that gets out, he hears about it and then he announces he WANTS to play for the NYJ, plays it off like he wanted out of GB...which doesn't make sense in my opinion, but whatever. 

So now I would definitely lean toward him in his own mind really needing to prove something to the Packers and the league.

 

But that Jets team REALLY needs to go all in like the Chiefs on that OL. A year from now, they could draft a LT, trade for one, or sign one. I don't see a FA who's worth it, but Bakh could be had by then if he looks like he did this past week all year. Maybe you get your 1st that way. Bakh+2nd for the NYJ 1st? 

They have more than enough salary cap room to really do anything they want. It doesn't really look like it on the surface, but if they want to go all in, they could create ~40M in cap room and really afford any player they want. 

 

Just brutal for him and the Jets fanbase. 

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Yeah, for all the roses thrown Rodgers' way to restructure his deal in effort to get other players into the mix this season, it's the same story Packer fans have grown accustomed to for future seasons with extending present cap problems into the future.

This is a complete and total disaster for the Jets in terms of longterm strength of their roster.  

It's really not though. The Jets are NOT in a position like the Packers, Saints or Buccs were in. They haven't restructured deals in a way that pushes all this money out to the future years. They don't have players like Bakh or Clark counting 70M against the cap.

Their 2024 cap, like I just said in a reply to Jopal, they could do that with just a couple players, Quinnen Wiliams, Mosley and Franklin-Myers, either restructure or cut(not Williams obviously) and create a ton of cap space. And they still wouldn't be in as deep as those three teams. 

 

This is a complete and total disaster for the Jets in the short-term, no question about that, but long term? It's really not that bad. 

Just 5 moves I made and they have 40 men on the roster and they can get ~60M under the cap next year(from ~18M). And that's without void years or doing any of that like the Packers had to.

If Rodgers DOES decide to come back...they're probably in a better position next year with a chance to really focus on their OL, their 1st round pick and all that, but their cap is in fine shape.

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

I was wondering if the surface might have had something to do with the injury.  MetLife Stadium has Fieldturf.  However, M&T Bank Stadium, where Dobbins was playing, has a natural Bermuda grass.

Freak injuries for both.

I don't think you can blame this one on the turf at all. I know they're going to(and if that leads to all grass, then good). But Rodgers ankle was under him, it wasn't stuck because of the field, it was stuck because of the weight coming down on him. 

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

As a Packer fan living in the MPLS area, I'm very much looking forward to watching the Vikings play on the road in Philly tomorrow night against that front 7....their O-line got exposed at home pretty significantly by a good Buccaneer front 7, but I think this could be one of those race to the QB type evenings and come Friday morning that 13-4 2022 record that included an unfathomable 11-0 record in 1 score games is going to look like ancient history.

[Fear The Chorizo]

18 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

It's really not though. The Jets are NOT in a position like the Packers, Saints or Buccs were in. They haven't restructured deals in a way that pushes all this money out to the future years. They don't have players like Bakh or Clark counting 70M against the cap.

Their 2024 cap, like I just said in a reply to Jopal, they could do that with just a couple players, Quinnen Wiliams, Mosley and Franklin-Myers, either restructure or cut(not Williams obviously) and create a ton of cap space. And they still wouldn't be in as deep as those three teams. 

 

This is a complete and total disaster for the Jets in the short-term, no question about that, but long term? It's really not that bad. 

Just 5 moves I made and they have 40 men on the roster and they can get ~60M under the cap next year(from ~18M). And that's without void years or doing any of that like the Packers had to.

If Rodgers DOES decide to come back...they're probably in a better position next year with a chance to really focus on their OL, their 1st round pick and all that, but their cap is in fine shape.

This is all well and good and could obviously be done - but having to start that type of restructuring charade game even before exploring longterm extensions to some of their marquee young players on rookie deals is a tough way to maintain a quality NFL roster, particularly with a big longterm question at QB that's also going to pose a significant dead cap hit at some point in the next few seasons when Rodgers does formally retire or get cut.

Those are the type of moves that get done when you've got a QB in his prime on a longterm deal secured for 4-5+ more seasons to maintain roster continuity - not on the heels of a 40 yr old QB recovering from a ruptured Achilles carrying a huge contract with him.

[BrewerFan]

10 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

This is all well and good and could obviously be done - but having to start that type of restructuring charade game even before exploring longterm extensions to some of their marquee young players on rookie deals is a tough way to maintain a quality NFL roster, particularly with a big longterm question at QB that's also going to pose a significant dead cap hit at some point in the next few seasons when Rodgers does formally retire or get cut.

Those are the type of moves that get done when you've got a QB in his prime on a longterm deal secured for 4-5+ more seasons to maintain roster continuity - not on the heels of a 40 yr old QB recovering from a ruptured Achilles carrying a huge contract with him.

Ok...I was making a point how easily they can create a massive amount of cap space while doing the bare minimum. By taking base salaries and converting them into bonuses and cutting an older, overpaid MLBer. They don't HAVE to do any of that. I was showing you how clean their cap is and how Rodgers injury, while it crushes their short term chances of winning, it isn't devastating for them long term. Worst case scenario, they've got a big cap hit in 2 years(After this one)for Rodgers that they probably split up over 2 years with a void year. That's before Gardner, Wilson and their young players really start getting expensive. 

I also wouldn't say Rodgers is carrying a huge contract. It's a 3 year 75M dollar deal. Burrows just signed a 5 year 275M deal(which means Herbert probably gets 5 years 280M and then Mahomes restructures and he gets more money).

 

Obviously Rodgers injury is devastating for the Jets. That much moreso if he doesn't come back from the Achilles as he has said he plans on doing...but their cap is still very healthy.