Oakland Athletics to Las Vegas

[owbc]

1 hour ago, bucks2281 said:

 I can’t see the players union ever endorsing a team playing full-time in Mexico. Also … what does a local media deal look like with a Mexican team? 

Univision. Can you imagine how many viewers that would draw? The Blue Jays have higher TV viewership than the Yankees and a Mexico team could top that, with many of the viewers being Mexican immigrants living in the US. 

Someone just needs to be the first to do it. Everyone was skeptical about putting a "big four" team in Vegas, then the NHL did it first and they are reaping the benefits of turning Vegas into a hockey town. 

The safety concerns are overblown...they have MLB teams in Milwaukee, Detroit, and St. Louis and nobody says a word about the safety of those cities. 

[nate82]

31 minutes ago, owbc said:

The safety concerns are overblown...they have MLB teams in Milwaukee, Detroit, and St. Louis and nobody says a word about the safety of those cities. 

You forgot Chiraq errrr Chicago.  As much as I love Chicago it can be an absolute third world country at night in some spots of the city.  The same with Phoenix or any major city in the US.  There are some cities in Mexico where it is far safer than in the US. 

[duewizard]

2 hours ago, bucks2281 said:

 I can’t see the players union ever endorsing a team playing full-time in Mexico. Also … what does a local media deal look like with a Mexican team? 

In Mexico a media deal would probably go to either Televisa (TUDN) or Azteca. 

Safety is obviously an issue but its the same with unsafe cities in the US. It's not like the team would be in Culiacán or Ciudad Juárez, which are extremely unsafe. Mexico City is perfectly fine.

[MrTPlush]

35 minutes ago, owbc said:

The safety concerns are overblown...they have MLB teams in Milwaukee, Detroit, and St. Louis and nobody says a word about the safety of those cities. 

In theory you would have a lot of tourists interested in catching their team in Mexico. Mexico is pretty famous for tourists being targeted for crime. That is where a lot of the issue lies. Fans/Players/etc. would be in an area they are incredibly unfamiliar with. You know what to watch out for and avoid in a country/area you know. A lot different when you can't even read a simple road sign. 

I remember there being a lot of concern when the NFL decided to play in Mexico over safety. Half of Mexico the US pretty much advises you to no travel to period. When the Texans went there they pretty much advised no one to leave the hotel. How are guys supposed to be there for 81 games? It is very possible a lot of the crime concerns aren't as bad as they worry...but who is going to be the Guinea pig to test that theory out?

 

[homer]

Mexico City's murder rate is about the same as Los Angeles. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, owbc said:

Univision. Can you imagine how many viewers that would draw? The Blue Jays have higher TV viewership than the Yankees and a Mexico team could top that, with many of the viewers being Mexican immigrants living in the US. 

Someone just needs to be the first to do it. Everyone was skeptical about putting a "big four" team in Vegas, then the NHL did it first and they are reaping the benefits of turning Vegas into a hockey town. 

The safety concerns are overblown...they have MLB teams in Milwaukee, Detroit, and St. Louis and nobody says a word about the safety of those cities. 

And we need to get over the American interpretation that Mexico is a Mad Max hellscape. It's wrong that Europeans think that about America and wrong that America thinks that about Latin America.

Are there dangerous parts of Mexico? Of course. But there are also loads of really nice parts with quite a bit of wealth.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The biggest problem with Mexico City is and will always be travel distance. Even Los Angeles is a significant flight away. The only city within what I'd frame as a reasonable distance is Houston. No city is ten hours away from Mexico City but even their division rivals would face significant flights and the burden on the Mexico City players would be brutal over 162.

Attendance and TV rights would be lower revenue per person but Mexico has 120,000,000 people. The team would capture all of that. It's nearly quadruple the population of Canada.

The phrase of the day is "make it up in volume" when it comes to a Mexican MLB team.

And given the resounding success of Mexico in the WBC and the fact Mexico already has a strong baseball following, it's a market just waiting to be tapped by MLB.

But then there's the travel issue.

[wibadgers23]

2 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

The biggest problem with Mexico City is and will always be travel distance. Even Los Angeles is a significant flight away. The only city within what I'd frame as a reasonable distance is Houston.

Attendance and TV rights would be lower revenue per person but Mexico has 120,000,000 people. The team would capture all of that. It's nearly quadruple the population of Canada.

The phrase of the day is "make it up in volume" when it comes to a Mexican MLB team.

And given the resounding success of Mexico in the WBC and the fact Mexico already has a strong baseball following, it's a market just waiting to be tapped by MLB.

But then there's the travel issue.

Monterrey might be a better overall option.  2nd largest city in Mexico and is closer to the U.S. than Mexico City so travel wouldn't be as bad.

[duewizard]

38 minutes ago, wibadgers23 said:

Monterrey might be a better overall option.  2nd largest city in Mexico and is closer to the U.S. than Mexico City so travel wouldn't be as bad.

The city's population is comparable to Dallas, not to mention the rest of the country would be very interested. The city is also growing with a lot of recent investment there. Really good option. Maybe integrate the local LMB team there?

[owbc]

32 minutes ago, wibadgers23 said:

Monterrey might be a better overall option.  2nd largest city in Mexico and is closer to the U.S. than Mexico City so travel wouldn't be as bad.

I think it would 100% be Monterrey -- specifically the affluent San Pedro Garza García area. Both the elevation and travel distance are issues in Mexico City. It will be interesting to see how the ball carries there this weekend. 

Nearly a third of MLB players are Latino. Many of them would feel more comfortable playing and living in Mexico than they do in the US. It just makes too much sense. 

Any expansion in the US runs into the problem of cannibalizing an existing market. The Giants will be thrilled to have the A's out of the Bay Area. Nashville and Raleigh can surely support MLB teams, but they will eat into the Braves fanbase. 

One of my top takeaways from the WBC was how much of a disaster the Marlins franchise is. Did you see those crowds in Miami? Almost all of those people live there. 

 

[nate82]

32 minutes ago, owbc said:

One of my top takeaways from the WBC was how much of a disaster the Marlins franchise is. Did you see those crowds in Miami? Almost all of those people live there. 

 

Majority of the people living in Miami are Cuban or Venezuelan.  The Venezuelan population has increased a lot in Florida while the Cuban population hasn't really seen much growth in a long time now (immigrants). 

The Marlins nearly go after Cuban players specifically because of this.  Unfortunately the Marlins have been ran so poorly even with their WS wins it hasn't helped their attendance.  I always thought the Rays moving from Tampa to Miami would have been a better option and then moving the Marlins to Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh or Portland made more sense than keeping the Marlins in Miami.

The Marlins are basically a toxic franchise at this point. 

[MrTPlush]

You guys are overthinking the distance between Monterrey and Mexico City. Planes go fast, from Chicago the difference is 30 minutes. The difference from JFK is 0 minutes. Going coast to coast like NYC to Cali etc. is longer. 

Mexico City would actually be better logistically, from what I know. Monterrey's airport is pretty darn small and features very little for flights from the US. Mexico City has direct flights from a much wider area of the US. For the teams and their private planes it won't matter...but fans and other personnel will likely be better off trying to get to Mexico City. 

I actually think Mexico City (or Monterrey) is in a decent spot. If it was a long flight PLUS they were on West/East Coast timezone I would see some travel concern. The flight is shorter than flying across the country, which happens constantly. Sure, it isn't a 1.5 skip across a river for anyone...but it isn't really that insanely long.

 

[nate82]

Flight time from NYC to Mexico City is 5 hours and 30 minutes while a direct flight from NYC to Seattle is 6 hours and 15 minutes. 

Flight times are not the problem.  Flight times from LA to Mexico City is just under an hour difference between LA and Seattle.  There really isn't an issue with travel to Mexico City. 

[wiguy94]

7 hours ago, duewizard said:

In Mexico a media deal would probably go to either Televisa (TUDN) or Azteca. 

Safety is obviously an issue but its the same with unsafe cities in the US. It's not like the team would be in Culiacán or Ciudad Juárez, which are extremely unsafe. Mexico City is perfectly fine.

I don't think MLB would ever go to Mexico City because of the elevation. 8000ft above sea level would be way too offensive of an environment.

[wiguy94]

6 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

The biggest problem with Mexico City is and will always be travel distance. Even Los Angeles is a significant flight away. The only city within what I'd frame as a reasonable distance is Houston. No city is ten hours away from Mexico City but even their division rivals would face significant flights and the burden on the Mexico City players would be brutal over 162.

Attendance and TV rights would be lower revenue per person but Mexico has 120,000,000 people. The team would capture all of that. It's nearly quadruple the population of Canada.

The phrase of the day is "make it up in volume" when it comes to a Mexican MLB team.

And given the resounding success of Mexico in the WBC and the fact Mexico already has a strong baseball following, it's a market just waiting to be tapped by MLB.

But then there's the travel issue.

Disagree. Elevation will always be the biggest issue with Mexico City.

[Brock Beauchamp]

17 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Disagree. Elevation will always be the biggest issue with Mexico City.

They’re seriously considering SLC as an expansion team so that’s not really true. If anything, more high elevation teams existing is good for the sport, it allows for more exploration of the effects and how to manage it. 

[duewizard]

19 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

I don't think MLB would ever go to Mexico City because of the elevation. 8000ft above sea level would be way too offensive of an environment.

That's actually a really good point. Would be even worse than Coors Field. Maybe Monterrey though.

[Brock Beauchamp]

5 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

I actually think Mexico City (or Monterrey) is in a decent spot. If it was a long flight PLUS they were on West/East Coast timezone I would see some travel concern. The flight is shorter than flying across the country, which happens constantly. Sure, it isn't a 1.5 skip across a river for anyone...but it isn't really that insanely long.

I’m not pointing you but illustrating my core point: Mexico City is not that far from any MLB city but it’s not close to any MLB city.

Thats a problem over 162 but mainly for the host city’s players. 

[wiguy94]

6 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

They’re seriously considering SLC as an expansion team so that’s not really true. If anything, more high elevation teams existing is good for the sport, it allows for more exploration of the effects and how to manage it. 

Salt Lake City is 4300ft above sea level. Mexico City is 7300. Just not even comparable.

They can explore these effects in AAA where there are a bunch of PCL parks at high elevations.

[MadThinker88]

IF MLB expands after the situations are resolved with the A's & Rays, not only are 2 sites needed for the 2 expansion teams, but also 8 other sites for the full season minor league clubs for those 2 expansion clubs.

So 2 more locations for AAA, 2 more for AA, 2 more for High A & 2 more for Low A.  There is also the question of spring training / complex sites..

I suggest taking a good look at the locations that recently lost minor league teams.  While a number of those locations lost clubs for good reason, I am sure a few of those cities will start pulling out all the stops in order to regain a full season minor team..

[jerichoholicninja]

Are visiting fans going to travel to Mexico City? Nothing to do with crime but that doesn't seem like a trip people are going to make just to watch their team with the long flight and having to deal with international travel.

[Brock Beauchamp]

13 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Salt Lake City is 4300ft above sea level. Mexico City is 7300. Just not even comparable.

They can explore these effects in AAA where there are a bunch of PCL parks at high elevations.

That's a great point. I thought Mexico City was similar to Denver, not a couple of thousand feet higher. That's a problem.

[MrTPlush]

 

1 minute ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

That's a great point. I thought Mexico City was similar to Denver, not a couple of thousand feet higher. That's a problem.

I think money looks the same at any elevation.

[MrTPlush]

33 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Are visiting fans going to travel to Mexico City? Nothing to do with crime but that doesn't seem like a trip people are going to make just to watch their team with the long flight and having to deal with international travel.

SW US is probably the main market that would probably make the trek internationally. A lot of those would probably love to see LAD/SDP play in Mexico. That or they become fans of the Mexican team and obviously would go for that. People aren't going to be flying in droves, but certainly fans would travel. You still have the issue of people that have to go (media etc.) and people in Mexico would have to get to games. Nearly everyone not in the city it is located in would be flying in...Mexico is actually quite massive and long. Mexico City to Monterrey is over 11 hours of driving, Cancun is a 30 hour drive. Mexico City's airport is smack dab middle of the town, Monterrey's airport is in the outskirts of town.

Mexico City is more logical logistically....but yah, the ridiculous elevation could be problematic. However, Denver exists. If the Mexico team struggles to find success and pitchers refuse to sign with them, oh well. The Mexico team would field a crazy strong fanbase regardless.

What is more damaging to baseball is the A's fielding the same size payroll they did at the turn of the century. 

[FriarHouketh]

I have a unique perspective on this, as in - well, I'm a displaced Brewer fan in the East Valley in Arizona. And, as I live in the A's spring home city, I have a somewhat partial rooting interest in this situation.

My number one concern is that the A's would not only abandon Oakland, but Mesa as well - one of only two Cactus League facilities that have "divided" locations. The Giants over in Scottsdale and the A's have stadiums separate from their practice fields.

Of course, if the A's move to Vegas, they might be interested in moving their facility to Legacy USA (fka Bell Bank Park) in the SE part of Mesa - and practically across the street from Phoenix Mesa Gateway. (Did I mention that Gateway has direct flights from Mesa to Las Vegas?)

I do foresee an expansion franchise considering Legacy USA for their spring home, though that may be my selfishness talking.

Anyways, as to the A's themselves - I'm old enough to remember the two times Finley tried to sell the team and move them to Denver. This thing ain't gonna be a clean divorce. Oakland's gonna force them to play at the Coliseum in 2024 by lawsuit, no matter how much money MLB throws at them, and we might be in for another round of what happened when the A's moved to Oakland in the first place - placating jilted cities with expansion teams.

Which, realistically, is what they should have done back in the 60's, tbh. Finley should have just sold the team to KC concerns (Kaufmann, for example), and let Oakland join the AL with Seattle in 1970 or 1971.