Brewers (Woodruff) vs White Sox (Scholten): 8/12/23, 6:10pm

[Bulldogboy]

3 minutes ago, 82brewcrew82 said:

If by the "bites of the apple theory" you mean the draft and develop process that is responsible for this "window" you keep pining about, then yes.

If you mean 50 plus years since your last world series ok sure window. 👌 

[82brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, Bulldogboy said:

If you mean 50 plus years since your last world series ok sure window. 👌 

So now YOUR "window" includes the last 50 years?  I thought your window was the Burnes/Woodruff era?  Keep moving those goal posts.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Fifty years? Damn that Frank Lane, it's all his fault.

[sveumrules]

1 minute ago, Bulldogboy said:

If you mean 50 plus years since your last world series ok sure window. 👌 

There have essentially been eight different eras in those fifty plus years…

1970-77 | 550-738 .427 (The Expansion Years)

1978-83 | 518-400 .564 (Molitor Yount Glory Years)

1984-86 | 215-268 .445 (Molitor Yount Hangover Years)

1987-92 | 508-464 .523 (Molitor Yount Twilight Years)

1993-06 | 981-1,219 .446 (Fourteen Years In The Wilderness)

2007-11 | 426-384 .526 (Braun Fielder Years) 

2012-16 | 380-430 .469 (Late Melvin Early Stearns Years)

2017-23 | 545-444 .551 (Stearns/Arnold Competitive Years)

This window has objectively been their best shot at a WS in 40 years.

Will it pay off this year, or next, or sometime after that? Probably not, the odds will always be stacked against the Brewers winning a WS.

But this window (even if it never pays off in a WS) has already been the second best stretch in franchise history, so I’ll keep enjoying it as long as it lasts because the alternative is irrelevance.

[Bulldogboy]

2 minutes ago, 82brewcrew82 said:

So now YOUR "window" includes the last 50 years?  I thought your window was the Burnes/Woodruff era?  Keep moving those goal posts.

I give up. You guys are a trip. Brewers are lucky to have fans who are just happy to be in your words competitive. If you want to call this season that. I like a few others would like to move the conversation past competitive but we can't get there apparently because you know nobody is available and after all all of prospects apparently are too good to think about trading. Unbelievable. Hang the central banner!! Might be last one for a while once the pitching walks. We shall see.

[82brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, sveumrules said:

But this window (even if it never pays off in a WS) has already been the second best stretch in franchise history, so I’ll keep enjoying it as long as it lasts because the alternative is irrelevance.

Which is achieved by developing and keeping your premium talent.  Not trading it away on a flier for a 5% increase in your chances.

[Bulldogboy]

3 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

 

There have essentially been eight different eras in those fifty plus years…

1970-77 | 550-738 .427 (The Expansion Years)

1978-83 | 518-400 .564 (Molitor Yount Glory Years)

1984-86 | 215-268 .445 (Molitor Yount Hangover Years)

1987-92 | 508-464 .523 (Molitor Yount Twilight Years)

1993-06 | 981-1,219 .446 (Fourteen Years In The Wilderness)

2007-11 | 426-384 .526 (Braun Fielder Years) 

2012-16 | 380-430 .469 (Late Melvin Early Stearns Years)

2017-23 | 545-444 .551 (Stearns/Arnold Competitive Years)

This window has objectively been their best shot at a WS in 40 years.

Will it pay off this year, or next, or sometime after that? Probably not, the odds will always be stacked against the Brewers winning a WS.

But this window (even if it never pays off in a WS) has already been the second best stretch in franchise history, so I’ll keep enjoying it as long as it lasts because the alternative is irrelevance.

My point exactly. This era was as good a time as they have had to do something special. It appears it's going to close without it.

[Bulldogboy]

2 minutes ago, 82brewcrew82 said:

Which is achieved by developing and keeping your premium talent.  Not trading it away on a flier for a 5% increase in your chances.

We have established you are in the wait and hope crowd. We get it. Premium talent like Keston Hiura? 👍 

[82brewcrew82]

7 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

We have established you are in the wait and hope crowd. We get it. Premium talent like Keston Hiura? 👍 

And you're in the shortsighted do dumb stuff crowd, We get it.

[Bulldogboy]

4 minutes ago, 82brewcrew82 said:

And you're in the shortsighted do dumb stuff crowd, We get it.

Like trade for Sabathia or something? Yep. Dumb.

[Bulldogboy]

5 minutes ago, 82brewcrew82 said:

And you're in the shortsighted do dumb stuff crowd, We get it.

By the way how many world series games have you been to with your philosophy? Just curious. 

[82brewcrew82]

Just now, Bulldogboy said:

Like trade for Sabathia or something? Yep. Dumb.

What did that get them at the expense of the dreaded first round bounce you keep saying is a bad thing.  And all it cost was Michael Brantley's All Star career.

[BrewerFan]

32 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

I'm not going back in time. I'm talking right now 2023. Nobody has yet to address winning a world series in the time period of having Burnes and Woodruff. Now if your answer is it cannot and will not be done say that. Making up stuff like Robert Gasser is going to make us forget Burnes and Ashby is the new Woodruff is nonsense. 

WHO? Who is making that up? PLEASE cite the person who said Gasser will "make us forget about Burnes and Woodruff?" He's been cited as a #3 or back of the rotation pitcher(though a top 100, so ranked roughly the same as Burnes and Woodruff were coming up).

What purpose do these absurd, intellectually dishonest replies get anyone? The answer is the same now as it was in 2017 when we traded for Yelich, signed Cain, NEARLY signed Darvish(reportedly made the largest offer to him). 

The difference then was the Brewers weren't widely respected for their ability to develop pitching.

Quote

Ok now we are getting somewhere. That's all I'm saying. Agree that losing Burnes and Woodruff put you in a worse place to do something like win a world series correct? So if we agree what are we going to do?

No. I don't agree. I don't know. If Chourio is the player he looks like, and Quero and the Brewers keep developing pitchers like they have, I think they've got a much wider window moving forward than they do now. 

Remember that NLCS? Who were our starters? We lost in 7 games. Wade Miley, Gio Gonzalez and then piecing together pitchers to get through the game.

Woodruff and Burnes were basically long relievers. 

 

And what I AM betting on is that among ALL the pitchers they've got and the pitchers they'll invariably sign and select and LIKELY acquire in a trade, I think you'll be able to put together another VERY good staff that may not be built exactly the same. Maybe it has one ace who's better than Burnes or Woodruff in Misiorowski(certainly has better pure stuff at a younger point as prospects) and then we won't have the 2nd ace, but rather we'll have a couple of really good #3's like Peralta, Ashby, Gasser, Rodriguez. Or maybe it'll be Brock Porter and Owen White.

 

What I feel confident is that the Brewers are going to be able to maintain an elite defense, run prevention with Chourio, Frelick, Wiemer, Mitchell, Quero, Turang, Black, Wilken, Pratt, Bitonti, Boeve, Baez...and Yelich, while hitting a helluva lot better than they have(Monastario could be in there as could another dozen young players like Guilarte) and one of the better team at developing pitching in baseball will continue to do so while naming some of the pitchers we've already got with elite stuff.

Maybe Knoth with his plus-plus CB becomes the ace and Misiorowski doesn't. 

 

What I'm certain of...is nobody has talked about "forgetting," Woodruff or Burnes, but maybe consider the team that's developed a LOT of pitching in recent years won't just forget how to do it moving forward.

Also consider that Josh Hader was arguably the 3rd best prospect at the time of that trade and Devin Williams appeared to be on bust when Stearns took over and developed the infrastructure they have no.

Not to mention, they drafted, then got Drew Rassmussen to the big leagues and traded from a position of STRENGTH...

 

We've become one of the best teams at identifying pitching and developing it. I'd hope we could agree on that.

We've also had a major organizational shift that put those 6 top 60 prospects in our system with several in the big leagues.

 

So I'm left here wondering, why people believe the era of the Brewers being competitive ends with Burnes and Woodruff? Why that means the end of the Brewers when we've got probably the most exciting young prospect the Brewers have EVER had, and one of the best arms in Baseball in AA?

[82brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, Bulldogboy said:

By the way how many world series games have you been to with your philosophy? Just curious. 

How many have you been to with yours after citing the Sabathia trade as an example?

[wiguy94]

3 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Like trade for Sabathia or something? Yep. Dumb.

Ah yes the trade that netted us 1 playoff win. Surprised you're out here celebrating a wild card birth and 1 playoff win. HaNg ThE wIlD cArD bAnNeR

[Bulldogboy]

1 minute ago, 82brewcrew82 said:

How many have you been to with yours after citing the Sabathia trade as an example?

Strawman 

[82brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

Ah yes the trade that netted us 1 playoff win. Surprised you're out here celebrating a wild card birth and 1 playoff win. HaNg ThE wIlD cArD bAnNeR

This made me laugh out loud.

[Bulldogboy]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

Ah yes the trade that netted us 1 playoff win. Surprised you're out here celebrating a wild card birth and 1 playoff win. HaNg ThE wIlD cArD bAnNeR

Your still here Ethan Small? Lol

[82brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, Bulldogboy said:

Strawman 

No, its a question, not a statement, and apparently one you don't want to answer.

[82brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, Bulldogboy said:

Your still here Ethan Small? Lol

Not an answer but keep moving those goal posts.

[Bulldogboy]

3 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

WHO? Who is making that up? PLEASE cite the person who said Gasser will "make us forget about Burnes and Woodruff?" He's been cited as a #3 or back of the rotation pitcher(though a top 100, so ranked roughly the same as Burnes and Woodruff were coming up).

What purpose do these absurd, intellectually dishonest replies get anyone? The answer is the same now as it was in 2017 when we traded for Yelich, signed Cain, NEARLY signed Darvish(reportedly made the largest offer to him). 

The difference then was the Brewers weren't widely respected for their ability to develop pitching.

No. I don't agree. I don't know. If Chourio is the player he looks like, and Quero and the Brewers keep developing pitchers like they have, I think they've got a much wider window moving forward than they do now. 

Remember that NLCS? Who were our starters? We lost in 7 games. Wade Miley, Gio Gonzalez and then piecing together pitchers to get through the game.

Woodruff and Burnes were basically long relievers. 

 

And what I AM betting on is that among ALL the pitchers they've got and the pitchers they'll invariably sign and select and LIKELY acquire in a trade, I think you'll be able to put together another VERY good staff that may not be built exactly the same. Maybe it has one ace who's better than Burnes or Woodruff in Misiorowski(certainly has better pure stuff at a younger point as prospects) and then we won't have the 2nd ace, but rather we'll have a couple of really good #3's like Peralta, Ashby, Gasser, Rodriguez. Or maybe it'll be Brock Porter and Owen White.

 

What I feel confident is that the Brewers are going to be able to maintain an elite defense, run prevention with Chourio, Frelick, Wiemer, Mitchell, Quero, Turang, Black, Wilken, Pratt, Bitonti, Boeve, Baez...and Yelich, while hitting a helluva lot better than they have(Monastario could be in there as could another dozen young players like Guilarte) and one of the better team at developing pitching in baseball will continue to do so while naming some of the pitchers we've already got with elite stuff.

Maybe Knoth with his plus-plus CB becomes the ace and Misiorowski doesn't. 

 

What I'm certain of...is nobody has talked about "forgetting," Woodruff or Burnes, but maybe consider the team that's developed a LOT of pitching in recent years won't just forget how to do it moving forward.

Also consider that Josh Hader was arguably the 3rd best prospect at the time of that trade and Devin Williams appeared to be on bust when Stearns took over and developed the infrastructure they have no.

Not to mention, they drafted, then got Drew Rassmussen to the big leagues and traded from a position of STRENGTH...

 

We've become one of the best teams at identifying pitching and developing it. I'd hope we could agree on that.

We've also had a major organizational shift that put those 6 top 60 prospects in our system with several in the big leagues.

 

So I'm left here wondering, why people believe the era of the Brewers being competitive ends with Burnes and Woodruff? Why that means the end of the Brewers when we've got probably the most exciting young prospect the Brewers have EVER had, and one of the best arms in Baseball in AA?

Just say you don't think they will win during this era and it's on to next. Got it

[BrewerFan]

44 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Ok. Like I said if that's your plan just say so. Good. I know where you stand. We can't compete. Nobody is available in trade that can help and they need to just hope they can draft and develop some more Cy young winners. Cool. Got it.

LOL....

[82brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, Bulldogboy said:

Just say you don't think they will win during this era and it's on to next. Got it

That isn't what he, or the rest of us think.  If that is what you are getting you either won't or can't comprehend what is being said.

[BrewerFan]

Just now, Bulldogboy said:

Just say you don't think they will win during this era and it's on to next. Got it

I feel like you struggle with reading comprehension. I don't feel that way. YOU feel that way. I've watched Baseball long enough to know if you get in the playoffs and get hot, you can win.

I LITERALLY said in a reply to you, "I THINK THIS TEAM CAN WIN."

You read that as "just say you don't think they will win during this era."

 

The fact that I think it's possible to win in this era but that I don't think losing Burnes and Woodruff is a permanent death sentence to the Brewers is a concept you're not able to fully comprehend, isn't it? 

I'm sorry about that. I went to great lengths trying to explain this to you. 

[StearnsFTW]

3 hours ago, Bulldogboy said:

Having Woodruff back definitely raises the ceiling on what this team can be but the offense being this bad hurts. It's why going all in for a bat would have been right move.

Nvm.

 

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