Questions on three players (Black, Devanney, Henry) going forward

[Matt Breen]

I have questions about three of our players. Just wondering if those in the know can offer some insight. Here you go:

1. What is Tyler Black's position? He was drafted as 2B, but has played 3B most of this year. And he's dabbled some at 1B and OF. Most reports I've seen say his arm isn't particularly good - and he's pretty stiff as a fielder. Is he best back at 2B? Or moved to 1B? I see people say we should play him at 3B or wherever - and I'm wondering if that sort of thing is even realistic.
2. What is Cam Devanney's defensive profile? I know he has played SS, but is it a position he can play in the majors? 
3. Is Payton Henry a decent potential major league catcher? Or is he more of a AAAA type guy? If the club loses Caritini - is Henry a realistic replacement for him in 2024? He had a nice 2023 - hitting nearly .300. But what's the realistic outlook for the guy.

Thanks for any insights.

[Spencer Michaelis]

2 hours ago, reillymcshane said:

What is Tyler Black's position? He was drafted as 2B, but has played 3B most of this year. And he's dabbled some at 1B and OF. Most reports I've seen say his arm isn't particularly good - and he's pretty stiff as a fielder. Is he best back at 2B? Or moved to 1B? I see people say we should play him at 3B or wherever - and I'm wondering if that sort of thing is even realistic.

In my opinion, it will be first base long term. He's made legitimate improvements this year on the defensive side of the ball, so I'm not ready to rule out third or second, but I think that would be in more of a Ben Zobrist role where he's rotating around and getting different guys days off.  I actually think he's best suited in the outfield, but given the current depth of outfield talent in the upper levels, I can't imagine the team wants to move him out there yet, and are hoping he can prove to be at least somewhat capable in the infield.

2 hours ago, reillymcshane said:

What is Cam Devanney's defensive profile? I know he has played SS, but is it a position he can play in the majors? 

In a pinch, I think he could handle short in an MLB game. I'm guessing they wouldn't want it happening regularly though. I think he's at his best at third base.

2 hours ago, reillymcshane said:

Is Payton Henry a decent potential major league catcher? Or is he more of a AAAA type guy? If the club loses Caritini - is Henry a realistic replacement for him in 2024? He had a nice 2023 - hitting nearly .300. But what's the realistic outlook for the guy.

If I had to guess which current AAA catcher the Brewers are highest on, I'd bet they're higher on Brian Navarreto than Henry. Navarreto is a fantastic defender and I think the Brewers value that in the backup catcher more than the bat.

I always liked Henry though, I had him higher than Feliciano on most of my lists. Turns out both of them might just be AAAA types. Henry's decent defense and baseball acumen will give him a chance if the bat plays enough. That said, I wouldn't be shocked if he's the backup catcher to start 2024 though, with Quero knocking on the door to take his spot.

[Jim French Stepstool]

I also think Navarreto has an inside track on backup C next year. That's assuming they don't sign another Caratini-type. But if not it would make for a nice competition; Henry has had a good year.

I think Devanney can play SS at the MLB level acceptably. 

From all accounts Black's played a nice 3B at AAA. If I had to guess he'll be at one corner or the other in Milwaukee once the smoke clears. I've never gotten a good handle on what I think his *best* position is, though.

[Ro Mueller]

The Payton Henry situation is interesting. As an optionable player, and with Caratini becoming a free agent, the Brewers could easily play some games with his status - adding him to the 40-man MLB roster as a placeholder - like tendering Erik Kratz in late 2018 and selecting Jon Singleton last year.

If you're Mr. Henry, you'll be hoping to snag a guaranteed MLB contract, a signing bonus or at a minimum a split contract which includes decent pay when optioned to AAA. Last offseason, guys like Mike Zunino ($6m, coming off a 43 OPS+ season), Austin Hedges ($5m, 42 OPS+), Tucker Barnhart ($6.5m total over 2 seasons, 61 OPS+), Curt Casali ($3.25m, 87 OPS+) and Luke Maile ($1.175m, 82 OPS+) each signed solid MLB deals, so have to be a sort of inspiration. Of the five, the highest OPS+ in 2023 has been Casali at 87+.

Then you've also got guys like Christian Bethancourt ($1.35m, 73 OPS+ in 2023), Nick Fortes ($750k, 55 OPS+) and Jacob Stallings ($3.35m, 61 OPS+) amongst the top 30 in MLB innings played at catcher in 2023.

So Henry may very much prefer to hit minor league free agency, especially if he believes (like me) that Caratini is most valuable to the Milwaukee Brewers so is likely to be re-signed.

[Matt Breen]

I am appreciating the insights of people on these players. Thanks.

[Joseph Zarr]

I think the greatest thing about having Navarreto and Henry is it is just a great depth 'problem' to have. Both young men are fantastic Triple-A players. Both young men deserve an opportunity to back-up at the MLB level. AND, if the Brewers re-sign Caritini? Well, good for the Brewers and we will see what happens with Henry this off-season. The Brewers continue to value catching quality and depth and it matters.

C Brian Navarreto now owns the last two Sounds walk-offs. He hit the game-tying 2-run HR tonight. He hit the game-winning walk-off two-run double down the 3B line (which, well, they'll score a single cuz walk-offs and all). As much as I love Henry's bat and disciplined approach at the dish and he is more than a competent back-stop, I remain incapable of shaking my passion for Navarreto's game. He just does so much on a consistent basis despite his short-comings at the dish in terms of consistently finding production. He is clutch. That means something to me. He is also, arguably, the best defensive catcher (in terms of MLB-readiness) in the system. I go back to the fact the Sounds started Navarreto just last year in their championship game in Vegas. It caught most fans by surprise. Absolutely not me. He is vastly underrated (still) and I wrote just so back in March before the season began in my quick series on Overlooked and Underappreciated prospects. He also threw out another base runner tonight and consistently sits 32-35% in that arena. He has, at various points during the past two seasons, led the International League in CS%.

As to Black, his positional mystery remains, well, a mystery. He just isn't a plus defensively anywhere. You can try him in places and he won't kill you but he'll rarely win you any innings there let alone games. The good plays come as a surprise (though they are made and he has 'improved' in 2023). BUT, the thing with Black is he is just so good on the basepaths and in the batters box that this almost just doesn't matter. This is a player who can easily, and I do mean easily, carve out a starting role in a number of ways. DH, first and foremost is the obvious in any game. He can steal a base any time he is on base. He can steal a base any time the ball hits the outfield grass. Then, he can simply rotate around as a fill-in in other areas. As @Smichaelis9says above:

Quote

I think that would be in more of a Ben Zobrist role where he's rotating around and getting different guys days off

It's really just this. He's going to be up at some point (if not the beginning) of 2024 due to his offensive arsenal. I don't really think this is debatable. As he is now getting his feet under him in Nashville he is impacting the game in various ways. We'll see how he improves in the off-season. Not the perfect prospect by any means given the stiffness and inability to thrive defensively but it won't matter over the breadth of how he impacts baseball games. This isn't a situation where it's a qb handling every ball that leaves the batters box. We can live and die with the inevitable shortcomings.

Devanney has quietly had a very solid season. Admittedly, before the season began and he was shelved for a month with injury, I was expecting more. BUT, the improvements Devanney made at the dish this season were discernible. He's more patient. He is hitting in a way that will help him play at the MLB level. He had a ridiculous poke single for an RBI in the past few weeks that was a style of hit we wouldn't have seen from Devanney before 2023. Like others have opined here, I think his best position is 3B but he is still a very good SS he just lacks the true range of an elite SS. His arm remains an absolute rifle shot. His glove is good. The confidence is absolutely there. He deserves an opportunity at some point down the road in the next couple of seasons. I firmly believe this. Like Monasterio (who I also highlighted in March), Devanney could hit the ground running and surprise a whole heck of a lot of the fanbase because they don't watch these guys. 

---

AND, the final addendum to all of this rambling @reillymcshaneis: ALL of these Triple-A players deserve at least ONE opportunity. They've earned it. They've paid their dues. My prayer for these players is they grab that first chance they get and run with it. When that fails, my next prayer is they receive another opportunity because they've earned it again. And so on down the line. I will never stop believing in these players - their talents; their work ethics; and their abilities to defy the odds. Every one you list above is capable of meeting the moment. We'll just have to wait and see if we are blessed to see it happen in a Brewers uniform.

[Joseph Zarr]

I mean, can I get a witness:

Quote

20) C Brian Navarreto - Hey, it's another 2021 Minor League free-agent signing who's back in 2023! I love Navarretto's baseball everything. Another player the casual fan typically casts aside as a one-time highly touted prospect who is simply a journeyman - I was likely in this crowd before 2022. If you watch Navarreto consistently, he fills you with love for baseball. He is a defensive dynamo behind the dish. He has a nice size, surprising agility, great pop, and a rifle of an arm. His personality is beyond affable - his smile could light an entire stadium with a fantastic sense of humor. Payton Henry will likely be the Sounds starter, but Navarreto will see meaningful playing time, and I anticipate more great things. There's a distinct reason Sounds manager Rick Sweet opted to go with Navarreto over any other catcher in the Vegas Championships: he's extremely reliable, and he's very talented. What was pretty surprising last season, and what I am even more curious about as the 2023 season approaches, is the timely hits with RISP and a considerably improved season at the plate overall. At age 28 (December birthday), it's fairly apparent that we aren't going to see a miraculous power renaissance. Given the already advanced defensive toolkit, the conversation would start to change if we could continue to see timely and impactful contact. I'm excited to see this young man play in 2023.

It's almost like I watch a full season of Minor League Brewers baseball. I guess this past month answered my own curiosities above. 

(Quote above from Part 4 HERE)

[Jim French Stepstool]

11 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

I think the greatest thing about having Navarreto and Henry is it is just a great depth 'problem' to have. Both young men are fantastic Triple-A players. Both young men deserve an opportunity to back-up at the MLB level. AND, if the Brewers re-sign Caritini? Well, good for the Brewers and we will see what happens with Henry this off-season. The Brewers continue to value catching quality and depth and it matters.

C Brian Navarreto now owns the last two Sounds walk-offs. He hit the game-tying 2-run HR tonight. He hit the game-winning walk-off two-run double down the 3B line (which, well, they'll score a single cuz walk-offs and all). As much as I love Henry's bat and disciplined approach at the dish and he is more than a competent back-stop, I remain incapable of shaking my passion for Navarreto's game. He just does so much on a consistent basis despite his short-comings at the dish in terms of consistently finding production. He is clutch. That means something to me. He is also, arguably, the best defensive catcher (in terms of MLB-readiness) in the system. I go back to the fact the Sounds started Navarreto just last year in their championship game in Vegas. It caught most fans by surprise. Absolutely not me. He is vastly underrated (still) and I wrote just so back in March before the season began in my quick series on Overlooked and Underappreciated prospects. He also threw out another base runner tonight and consistently sits 32-35% in that arena. He has, at various points during the past two seasons, led the International League in CS%.

As to Black, his positional mystery remains, well, a mystery. He just isn't a plus defensively anywhere. You can try him in places and he won't kill you but he'll rarely win you any innings there let alone games. The good plays come as a surprise (though they are made and he has 'improved' in 2023). BUT, the thing with Black is he is just so good on the basepaths and in the batters box that this almost just doesn't matter. This is a player who can easily, and I do mean easily, carve out a starting role in a number of ways. DH, first and foremost is the obvious in any game. He can steal a base any time he is on base. He can steal a base any time the ball hits the outfield grass. Then, he can simply rotate around as a fill-in in other areas. As @Smichaelis9says above:

It's really just this. He's going to be up at some point (if not the beginning) of 2024 due to his offensive arsenal. I don't really think this is debatable. As he is now getting his feet under him in Nashville he is impacting the game in various ways. We'll see how he improves in the off-season. Not the perfect prospect by any means given the stiffness and inability to thrive defensively but it won't matter over the breadth of how he impacts baseball games. This isn't a situation where it's a qb handling every ball that leaves the batters box. We can live and die with the inevitable shortcomings.

Devanney has quietly had a very solid season. Admittedly, before the season began and he was shelved for a month with injury, I was expecting more. BUT, the improvements Devanney made at the dish this season were discernible. He's more patient. He is hitting in a way that will help him play at the MLB level. He had a ridiculous poke single for an RBI in the past few weeks that was a style of hit we wouldn't have seen from Devanney before 2023. Like others have opined here, I think his best position is 3B but he is still a very good SS he just lacks the true range of an elite SS. His arm remains an absolute rifle shot. His glove is good. The confidence is absolutely there. He deserves an opportunity at some point down the road in the next couple of seasons. I firmly believe this. Like Monasterio (who I also highlighted in March), Devanney could hit the ground running and surprise a whole heck of a lot of the fanbase because they don't watch these guys. 

---

AND, the final addendum to all of this rambling @reillymcshaneis: ALL of these Triple-A players deserve at least ONE opportunity. They've earned it. They've paid their dues. My prayer for these players is they grab that first chance they get and run with it. When that fails, my next prayer is they receive another opportunity because they've earned it again. And so on down the line. I will never stop believing in these players - their talents; their work ethics; and their abilities to defy the odds. Every one you list above is capable of meeting the moment. We'll just have to wait and see if we are blessed to see it happen in a Brewers uniform.

I've known about Navarretos' defensive moxie, but this is the first time I've seen someone go into such great detail about him. Thanks. Would you comp him to a Marty Maldonado?

Given the huge boost Monasterio has given the Brewers, it's always worth it to keep a finger on the pulse of the "under the radar" guys. Still keeping a watchful eye on my guy Devanney.

Again, thanks for a terrific post.

[Joseph Zarr]

2 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I've known about Navarretos' defensive moxie, but this is the first time I've seen someone go into such great detail about him. Thanks. Would you comp him to a Marty Maldonado?

Given the huge boost Monasterio has given the Brewers, it's always worth it to keep a finger on the pulse of the "under the radar" guys. Still keeping a watchful eye on my guy Devanney.

Again, thanks for a terrific post.

Very good question. I absolutely think it's fair to ponder whether they'll take similar paths. Maldonado was on the golden path as a defensive stalwart - if I recall correctly he got his first action at age 25. Navs has also dipped his toes at the MLB level but just hasn't had the staying power. But, with age comes experience and with that (in his case) comes refinement. With the Sounds, we're talking about a clutch bat with a 99.5 ish FP% who throws out 33% of base runners. He's not going to hurt you. And the fact he can hit clutch is so key because he certainly doesn't hit consistently. That's his only flaw as I've seen it for the past two years. 

[BrewerFan]

On 9/18/2023 at 12:14 PM, reillymcshane said:

I have questions about three of our players. Just wondering if those in the know can offer some insight. Here you go:

1. What is Tyler Black's position? He was drafted as 2B, but has played 3B most of this year. And he's dabbled some at 1B and OF. Most reports I've seen say his arm isn't particularly good - and he's pretty stiff as a fielder. Is he best back at 2B? Or moved to 1B? I see people say we should play him at 3B or wherever - and I'm wondering if that sort of thing is even realistic.
2. What is Cam Devanney's defensive profile? I know he has played SS, but is it a position he can play in the majors? 
3. Is Payton Henry a decent potential major league catcher? Or is he more of a AAAA type guy? If the club loses Caritini - is Henry a realistic replacement for him in 2024? He had a nice 2023 - hitting nearly .300. But what's the realistic outlook for the guy.

Thanks for any insights.

I haven't watched as much MiLB as the rest, but so I'll just share my own opinion.

1-I think Black could be fine at 3B. He doesn't have that big arm, but he moves pretty well. I didn't think he ever looked stiff there and I think his glove is good enough. .

2-Devanney I watched more last year than this year, so I believe he struggled a bit, but I thought he was a fantastic defender. Scouting repots say he's a plus defender at SS and an even better defender at 3B.

Devanney is a Monasterio type player in that I think he can be useful and be a surprising contributor next year, who plays better defense and hits for much more power in my opinion. His exit velo went up 3MPH and was in the top 10% in exit velocity. So I don't know if he's a starting SS or 3B(I think it's clear he won't start at SS, but I think it's clear he can serve as a backup and at least a utility player and very possibly as a starter moving forward. He had a fluke MiLB career, drafted in '19 at 21, played rookie ball. Covid year at 22, didn't play. HUGE jump in '21 to AA, struggled. Last year at AA/AAA hit well(short sample at AAA). And then this year after a very poor start, he put up a .290/.387/.477 with an OPS of ~.870. 

3-I watch the games more passively and haven't really followed the nuances of catching to have an opinion on Henry as a big league receiver. 

[SF70]

I find it hard to believe the Brewers play Black at 3B in the bigs as much as the Arnold-led team values defense. Hoping to see Black at 1B in ST and spend time at Nashville in the beginning of the year really learning that position.

Long-term, OF could be where we see him, allowing for the trading of other OF’s to improve the team in other areas.

I’d like to see Devanney with MKE at a minimum as a utility IF, but hoping they give him an opportunity to win the 3B job at some point if they don’t sign or trade for a 3B.

The combination of glove, arm and pop makes him an intriguing player moving forward, imo.

[Brewcrew82]

2 hours ago, SF70 said:

I find it hard to believe the Brewers play Black at 3B in the bigs as much as the Arnold-led team values defense. Hoping to see Black at 1B in ST and spend time at Nashville in the beginning of the year really learning that position.

Long-term, OF could be where we see him, allowing for the trading of other OF’s to improve the team in other areas.

I’d like to see Devanney with MKE at a minimum as a utility IF, but hoping they give him an opportunity to win the 3B job at some point if they don’t sign or trade for a 3B.

The combination of glove, arm and pop makes him an intriguing player moving forward, imo.

I really, really like the idea Black at 1B. Not as conventional with the power (though Black isn't exactly deficient in that area), but could help solidify what has been a revolving door at that position since Prince walked. 

I honestly think he should be up right now as a DH against RHP in place of Rowdy. You can count on him to get on base at the very least. 

[Matt Breen]

On 9/20/2023 at 8:57 AM, Brewcrew82 said:

I really, really like the idea Black at 1B. Not as conventional with the power (though Black isn't exactly deficient in that area), but could help solidify what has been a revolving door at that position since Prince walked. 

I honestly think he should be up right now as a DH against RHP in place of Rowdy. You can count on him to get on base at the very least. 

To me you put Black at the position he'll thrive in. If it's 1B - then put him there. I just don't want the club to delude themselves and trot him out at a position there's almost no way he'll play long term. His bat will, I think, play anywhere. 

[BigWoo53]

On 9/20/2023 at 6:40 AM, SF70 said:

I find it hard to believe the Brewers play Black at 3B in the bigs as much as the Arnold-led team values defense. Hoping to see Black at 1B in ST and spend time at Nashville in the beginning of the year really learning that position.

Long-term, OF could be where we see him, allowing for the trading of other OF’s to improve the team in other areas.

I’d like to see Devanney with MKE at a minimum as a utility IF, but hoping they give him an opportunity to win the 3B job at some point if they don’t sign or trade for a 3B.

The combination of glove, arm and pop makes him an intriguing player moving forward, imo.

I agree here on Devanney. With this FA class I think Candelario could be had but doubt Brewers pay him what he'll command. So I am not sure (unless via trade) a 3B will be had and at least as far as ceiling I see Devanney much higher than Monasterio as arm, defense, pop Devanney is superior and hope he gets a chance to play and Monasterio can be utility guy. 

Black I like to be 1B/DH guy and then I hope the Brewers sign a Cron or Rhys Hoskins (coming off ACL tear so could be had on prove-it deal) as RHH option there. Can play one of the guys at first and Black DH or vice versa. Really all of the youth either are in the midst of entire swing reconstruction (Wiemer) or limited in power. The FA class needs to bring a power bat to MKE and for what Brewers usually pay Cron or Hoskins would be nice adds. This team needs some power. Black long-term I doubt is a 3B so I see him coming up and play first all spring and if he doesn't show enough progress have him DH unless you think a couple more months in AAA will bring him to being a solid 1B year 1. 

For C I am not sure, but I really like Quero. Henry or Navaretto can be a placeholder for 2024 I don't really know which one I'd prefer probably Navaretto as he's probably superior defensively. 

[Harold Hutchison]

1. I think Black's position is third - at least for a few years. Frelick/Mitchell/Chourio/Wiemer are your four OFs for the next five to six years. In 2024, Chourio will be starting at AAA, and the Crew have Canha/Yelich to handle 1B/DH. If you're keeping Adames and Monasterio/Turang as your starters at shortstop and second base, then third base is the only open spot left.

2. Devanney's floor is probably replacing Miller and/or Toro on the 40-man - his floor is probably their production. I've had him as an "overlooked" prospect for a while, myself. The Monasterio comparison is interesting - in one sense, he could be a solid contributor - Monasterio's profile is hitting for average and doubles, Devanney has more home-run power.

3. I think Henry is an excellent #2 catcher. Could he be more? The minor-league career points to a decent bat that isn't an embarrassment. Defense is solid. He and Quero would not be a bad tandem starting in 2025, and Contreras would fetch a nice trade return. The other option is to have Contreras spend a lot more time at DH/1B from 2025 on and ride with Quero/Henry as the primary catchers.