Wisconsin Football 2024

[Jim French Stepstool]

20 minutes ago, nate82 said:

Dupree kind of reminds me of a mix between Ball and White. 

They need to get Kekahuna the ball more.  Maybe add in some end sweeps or an end a round every once in a while.  Kekahuna kind of looks like a DJ Moore type of a player.  I am not sure he will be as good as Moore is but I really like his athleticism.  If he was taller Kekahuna would be everything you look for in a WR. 

Kekahuna is deceptively strong for a kid his size, too.

[Joseph Zarr]

Kekahuna is also fun to say out loud. Go ahead and give it another go. I like adding it randomly into nonsensical statements:

"By the time I realized I forgot my 'Kekahuna', it was too late. I had already crossed state lines. There was no turning back."

[yourout]

Can I decide who I dislike more OSU or Oregon.

[HarryDoyle]

10 minutes ago, yourout said:

Can I decide who I dislike more OSU or Oregon.

Oregon and those other fake Big Ten teams on the west coast don't belong. I'll take OSU over any of them, and I hate OSU.

[yourout]

6 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

Oregon and those other fake Big Ten teams on the west coast don't belong. I'll take OSU over any of them, and I hate OSU.

No argument here. Sound logic

[HarryDoyle]

4 minutes ago, yourout said:

No argument here. Sound logic

You can throw in Rutgers and Maryland too. And I'm on the fence with Nebraska.

[young guns]

Not great clock management by Ohio st at the end there( and that offensive PI hurt a lot too).

Though I will say isn't it usual the ref will announce something like the click will resume on ready or whatever?

[Jim French Stepstool]

I'm fine with any of the west coast teams beating Minnesota. The Gophers eked one out tonight, in the final minute, against a 1-5 UCLA team. I suspect PJ Fleck will be ordering team rings for everyone inscribed with "Winners of (*) The Rose Bowl"

* --a regular season game scheduled in--

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

You can throw in Rutgers and Maryland too. And I'm on the fence with Nebraska.

I'm more alright with Nebraska as a B1G school...it's at least in the region, style of play, etc...

But that was a big part of CFB. Conferences. The Northeast(Big East, ACC), SEC, B12, wider area, B1G, much smaller area. It was what, 7 States, 10 schools, and then the soft Pac-12. 

In Wrestling we call the Conference Tournament the Big Tens...that makes more sense now with 20 schools from Southern Cal, to Oregon to NJ to Maryland. 

The Big Tens...or the Big 20. But a 20-team Big 10 is...silly. 

 

 

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I'm fine with any of the west coast teams beating Minnesota. The Gophers eked one out tonight, in the final minute, against a 1-5 UCLA team. I suspect PJ Fleck will be ordering team rings for everyone inscribed with "Winners of (*) The Rose Bowl"

* --a regular season game scheduled in--

About as fitting as their National Championship when they got their arses kicked in the Rose Bowl. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

9 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I'm more alright with Nebraska as a B1G school...it's at least in the region, style of play, etc...

But that was a big part of CFB. Conferences. The Northeast(Big East, ACC), SEC, B12, wider area, B1G, much smaller area. It was what, 7 States, 10 schools, and then the soft Pac-12. 

In Wrestling we call the Conference Tournament the Big Tens...that makes more sense now with 20 schools from Southern Cal, to Oregon to NJ to Maryland. 

The Big Tens...or the Big 20. But a 20-team Big 10 is...silly. 

 

 

I under$tand the rea$on$ behind it, but for a traditional college fan that liked the game because of the differences between it and the professionals it sucks. I guess conferences making no geographic sense isn't a huge deal with air travel. But I find that unpalatable too.

For those who are fine viewing it as a mini-NFL with an extra game day to get in their betting jollies I guess it's no big deal.

[yourout]

Rewatching the game. Walker reminds me a bit of Brent Moss.

Punishing runner.

[Samurai Bucky]

On 10/13/2024 at 1:18 AM, BrewerFan said:

In Wrestling we call the Conference Tournament the Big Tens...that makes more sense now with 20 schools from Southern Cal, to Oregon to NJ to Maryland. 

The Big Tens...or the Big 20. But a 20-team Big 10 is...silly. 

Aren't the Wrestling teams club sports from the four new additions?

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 minutes ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Aren't the Wrestling teams club sports from the four new additions?

Not to step on @BrewerFan's toes as he probably knows more about it than I do, but it was my understanding that many of the non-revenue (or lesser-revenue) sports had X number of schollies available & the total number wouldn't cover the # of athletes in the sport, so it would be divided up into partials with maybe fulls going to a limited number of participants. I think this would be the case among the west coast entrants as well. I worked with someone whose son wrestled at UW, but that was a long enough time ago that I'm not sure how or if it's changed for the grapplers. One thing appears certain--if you aren't a BB, FB or hockey player the money may be drying up soon, and most of the other sports might someday take on a club-type model.

[Samurai Bucky]

11 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Not to step on @BrewerFan's toes as he probably knows more about it than I do, but it was my understanding that many of the non-revenue (or lesser-revenue) sports had X number of schollies available & the total number wouldn't cover the # of athletes in the sport, so it would be divided up into partials with maybe fulls going to a limited number of participants. I think this would be the case among the west coast entrants as well. I worked with someone whose son wrestled at UW, but that was a long enough time ago that I'm not sure how or if it's changed for the grapplers. One thing appears certain--if you aren't a BB, FB or hockey player the money may be drying up soon, and most of the other sports might someday take on a club-type model.

You are correct with the partial scholarships.  There have been players I have coached recently that went to D1 Softball and Baseball schools.  They were often talking about receiving half scholarships, etc.

I checked the Big Ten website, and the wrestling teams out west are not listed.  I checked out the schools' athletic sites and it appears they are club, too.  Perhaps that will be elevated with the additional revenue. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

17 minutes ago, Samurai Bucky said:

You are correct with the partial scholarships.  There have been players I have coached recently that went to D1 Softball and Baseball schools.  They were often talking about receiving half scholarships, etc.

I checked the Big Ten website, and the wrestling teams out west are not listed.  I checked out the schools' athletic sites and it appears they are club, too.  Perhaps that will be elevated with the additional revenue. 

Interesting re the west coast wrestling programs. Wouldn't have expected that.

A relative of mine received a partial ride for softball a few years ago. The biggest detriment to that, in her case, was it made it easier for her to quit after one year☹️.

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Aren't the Wrestling teams club sports from the four new additions?

I don't know if they have club teams, but I know UCLA, USC, Washington and Oregon don't have Wrestling programs. But I'm talking about the number of Football teams. 

 

2 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Not to step on @BrewerFan's toes as he probably knows more about it than I do, but it was my understanding that many of the non-revenue (or lesser-revenue) sports had X number of schollies available & the total number wouldn't cover the # of athletes in the sport, so it would be divided up into partials with maybe fulls going to a limited number of participants. I think this would be the case among the west coast entrants as well. I worked with someone whose son wrestled at UW, but that was a long enough time ago that I'm not sure how or if it's changed for the grapplers. One thing appears certain--if you aren't a BB, FB or hockey player the money may be drying up soon, and most of the other sports might someday take on a club-type model.

The number of scholarships are almost irrelevant at this point. Even in a little niche sport, the schools that have Wrestling in the Big 10, they have out NIL money for the top recruits. Iowa, Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, Minnesota, are spending a couple of million on NIL deals or they'll pay guys to train at their regional training center. So they don't get a scholarship, but they don't pay for school either. 

Wisconsin has actually had as much HS talent as any state in the Country the past few years, but for a couple reasons, NONE of them are going to Madison. 

It's no different than CBB, just on a smaller scale. You get a guy from Arkansas Little Rock who turns into a stud and the top programs will go after them. It's all pretty silly and I can't imagine giving a College a couple million for Wrestling, but perhaps if I had tens of millions, I'd feel differently. 

 

To your previous point though, yes, they have fewer scholarships than the number of participants needed. Wrestling has 9.9 available. They'd maybe give out a couple full scholarships to the absolute top recruits. If you have a program like Iowa or Minnesota, what they did back before paying a guy was legal, they would make so much money off the camps, they'd pay the Wrestlers who'd have success, they'd then lose their scholarship, pay for school themselves and still come out ahead. And it was legal. But just using the scholarships, very few people ever got a full, legit 100% scholarship. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

 

 

To your previous point though, yes, they have fewer scholarships than the number of participants needed. Wrestling has 9.9 available. 

What's the number of wrestlers that's doled out over? Just curious.

[BrewerFan]

28 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

What's the number of wrestlers that's doled out over? Just curious.

The roster is ~25 on average I'd guess. Penn State rosters around 40. I don't know that anyone is going to be deeper than that. 

The 9.9 scholarships are split up among probably 20 Wrestlers when that was the only way to compensate the athletes. Again, just going with Penn State, they're spending about 5M on their Wrestling team with NIL money and paying them to train at the Nittany Lion Wrestling Club...but they're also just so much better than anyone else, they're bringing in more money. Iowa and Michigan are in the 3M a year range. 

 

[BrewerFan]

23 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

You are correct with the partial scholarships.  There have been players I have coached recently that went to D1 Softball and Baseball schools.  They were often talking about receiving half scholarships, etc.

I checked the Big Ten website, and the wrestling teams out west are not listed.  I checked out the schools' athletic sites and it appears they are club, too.  Perhaps that will be elevated with the additional revenue. 

No, those are the only 4 who don't have programs...which used to be part of the B1G Charter, they used to be able have to field a team as...Wrestling is pretty big in the B10. 

It is actually growing. You have Women's programs starting and a lot of States where the sport isn't very big, it's growing there as well, largely due to the influence of the UFC where...most of the best fighters come from a Wrestling Background...(not UFC background...as that makes no sense).

There's been a lot of talk about UCLA and USC rebuilding their programs(and I know UCLA has benefactors who've offered to fund it...roughly 20M to get the facilities, coaches, RTC going). The State is also full of talent because...it's California. Just the numbers, but they're probably behind only Penn and Ohio in terms of prep talent yet they only have Cal Baptist, a school new to D1, Cal Bakersfield(where Stephen Neal from the Pats was a dominant Wrestler before trying FB again with a lot of success) and then Stanford. Cal Poly may have it as well, but the point is, the State's top schools do not, UCLA, USC and Berkley.

Washington hasn't had a program in a long time(probably 1980s) and Oregon dropped the program due to Title9...supposedly. They also raised 20M but their AD said they could raise 75M and it wouldn't make a difference as it doesn't 'Fit their vision,' or something. 

I know the topic of those schools not having Wrestling came up and I know the rule about each school maintaining a Wrestling program was gone well before the new programs were added, but it was still adhered to...I just don't imagine it played much of a factor. 

 

I don't think they'll add the sport though. College athletics is becoming like HS athletes, more specialized. I think it's kinda silly as you have an Olympic sport growing in popularity and people willing to fund it and there's not the interest by the AD's to bother, mostly because you'd have to add Women's Wrestling to stay in Title 9 compliance. 

At least that's the excuse. Marquette was cut despite coming up with 10M. Wrestlers grow up hating Title 9 as it's been used to cut a lot of programs(either real or imagined). The truth is...the people who are fans are insane rabid fans and you can sell out the Kohl Center for 3 Days for the State Tournament or Madison Square Garden for the NCAAs, but it doesn't bring in a lot of outside fans(though if you start to watch it, you can really get into it). 

 

[Samurai Bucky]

8 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I don't think they'll add the sport though. College athletics is becoming like HS athletes, more specialized. I think it's kinda silly as you have an Olympic sport growing in popularity and people willing to fund it and there's not the interest by the AD's to bother, mostly because you'd have to add Women's Wrestling to stay in Title 9 compliance. 

Baseball is a (sometimes) Olympic sport.  I wonder if a certain school would consider adding it.  Wash... rinse... repeat.

8 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

At least that's the excuse. Marquette was cut despite coming up with 10M. Wrestlers grow up hating Title 9 as it's been used to cut a lot of programs(either real or imagined). The truth is...the people who are fans are insane rabid fans and you can sell out the Kohl Center for 3 Days for the State Tournament or Madison Square Garden for the NCAAs, but it doesn't bring in a lot of outside fans(though if you start to watch it, you can really get into it). 

I got to see Lee Kemp wrestle against Marquette at the Marquette Old Gym.  The golden years of Wisconsin Wrestling.  I didn't realize how many specialty academies there are in the Wisconsin area for wrestling.  It shouldn't surprise me since there are soccer, basketball, and baseball academies all over the place.  It has been a while since I have been involved in the wrestling scene.

[BrewerFan]

14 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

I got to see Lee Kemp wrestle against Marquette at the Marquette Old Gym.  The golden years of Wisconsin Wrestling.  I didn't realize how many specialty academies there are in the Wisconsin area for wrestling.  It shouldn't surprise me since there are soccer, basketball, and baseball academies all over the place.  It has been a while since I have been involved in the wrestling scene.

Downstairs in the old Gym that was narrow and about 90 degrees? I spent a lot of time down there in the Summers and Winter Break with Schmitz, Matt Abad, and I forget the other guy(short stocky guy from Baraboo).

I wonder what he was doing down there...Billy Kumphrey maybe? Was this the early 90s?

Anyway, Lee Kemp is a great man, and one of the best athletes that nobody really knows outside of Wisconsin and even in Wisconsin, he's not well known. 

The first 4X NC should have been Lee Kemp in the late 70s(instead it was Pat Smith who IIRC did it in the late 80s/early 90s). But Lee Kemp, who only started Wrestling because he didn't make his Basketball team and was 11-8 as a Soph in HS, won 2 State Titles, then went into the Badgers, Wrestled as a True Freshmen and was a "Referee's decision" vs Iowa's Chuck Yagla in the NCAA Finals from winning a Title as a Freshmen. A Referee's decision was the lamest possible way to decide a match. It was just...the 3 refs voting on who should win. 2-1 Yagla despite Kemp having taken all the shots and attacking more(which was mostly the criteria, but in reality, it was based on seniority...Kemp was younger and that's it). He would go on and be 1140-0-1 or something the following 3 years. 

Had he redshirted(as would have been expected)...again, probably the first 4X undefeated National Champ, not Cael Sanderson. 

But, that same 18-year-old Lee Kemp that lost as a Freshmen to an Iowa Wrestler ended Dan Gable's career at the Northern Open. Gable, 25, Wrestled in the '72 Olympics and was dominant. He didn't give up a point in the Olympics and won matches like 18-0, 26-0. This was when a Takedown was worth 1 point and you didn't have tech falls. The only Wrestler who was unscored upon in the Olympics at that time. Now you have tech falls, so 10 point lead and it's over.

Gable won his World Title, his Olympic and then,  stopped. Went into coaching, but he was still the best in the world. You didn't make money Wrestling back then...and while you don't make a ton now, a guy like Jordan Burroughs, he's made millions(like...a good Kicker millions, not a good QB, this is why guys go into the UFC like Bo Nickal). 

Kemp would win the World Championships in '78, '79 and '81. Something missing in there. The Olympic Title. The US famously boycotted in '80 when he was the overwhelming favorite. Then in '84, the Soviets, the dominant Wrestling powerhouse boycotted and you had like 6 Gold Medalists, a couple silver. It was really watered down. Like MLB if you took all the Latin American's out of the sport. 

 

But Kemp was a GREAT dude. I got to know him up at the University of Madison as a young kid. First in different National Tournaments when he'd help "coach" the Wisconsin team and then up at Madison getting ready for Junior Nations, saw him a bit in College. Also would see him later as he was coaching his kid Adam. 

Saw him a couple years ago at the NCAA Wrestling Championships. I said, "you look like you could still get out there," he looked at me with a smirk and said, "Oh yeah, feel like it," then said, "you don't." LOL...

I'm not sure he knows my name without being reminded, he's the type of guy who helps everyone but...he is an incredible man and a personal hero of mind. 

 

He really SHOULD have been the first 4X NCAA Champ and if they would have redshirted him, he'd have been the first 4X undefeated NCAA Champ, not Cael Sanderson. Incidentally, there was a kid from Arrowhead last year who lost in the finals, Mitchell Mesenbrink. He was undefeated wrestling in weight with TWO Two-Time Champs(one was another Hartland Arrowhead kid Keegan O'Toole). He lost a 9-8 match that was 8-8 but the other kid had riding time and he didn't realize it. Not a given he'll win 3 titles, but damn near a lock. He was just dominant last year as a Freshmen. Of course, the biggest threat is on his own team.

 

Anyway, I should say SOMETHING about Wisconsin Football in here. On the UW Football Team is Dillan Johnson, an absolute TANK of a human being. 

 

Wisconsin Prep Wrestling has arguably been the best in the Country for the past 3-5 years and they've had several kids win U-17, U-20, or U-23 World Titles. 

[nate82]

Locke still sucks.  Should have 3 interceptions in this game.  He makes Trubisky look like a genius at QB with his decision making.  

[RedStickBrew]

29 minutes ago, nate82 said:

Locke still sucks.  Should have 3 interceptions in this game.  He makes Trubisky look like a genius at QB with his decision making.  

He’s certainly inconsistent 

[RedStickBrew]

I like that CLF was not pleased with the first half play. Hopefully they execute better this half