Divisional Round: Packers @ 49ers - Saturday, Jan 20th 7:15pm (Fox)

[BrewerFan]

7 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Mahomes sat for a development year.  Would he have done as well as a rookie?  No idea.  But he had a year to develop, read D, see how a good QB ran the offense and did game planning.... You can't use him as "he didn't need development" when he got a whole year of it before busting on the scene.

Yeah, because they had a PG Quarterback and a top 10 offense.

Either way, you really don't understand the point I'm making? Rodgers, Love, they required a complete teardown of their throwing.

7 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Dak might've come in more NFL ready than typical 4th round picks, but he clearly had a learning curve.  He splashed on the scene as a rookie, but stepped backwards for a couple years. 

QBs like Herbert, Stroud, Dak, they didn't. Dak took a step back after his rookie year. Ok. He still threw for 23 TDs, 4 INTs as a rookie and went 13-3.

I NEVER said he didn't have a learning curve or that they came in their first year and were as good as they'd ever be. 

I don't get what the point of this is. There are QBs who've come in and had immediate success and then there are QBs who need a lot more work. I don't see how that could be argued or why...but...ok. 

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, tmwiese55 said:

Yup and Jimmy didn't suck either, not great at the top top level but he didn't suck.  The Kaep stuff is irrelevant, whole different team, coaches, everything and its been 10 years.   

If the question is if they got results out of their QBs, I think going back 10 years is a pretty reasonable time frame and relevant, especially since the 49ers have had the same general identity for years now.

Build an elite defense, play-makers around them, and then try to win without an elite QB.

3 hours ago, tmwiese55 said:

The Jimmy SB loss was in 2019.  2020 they went 6-10, 21 10-7, then 2022 they started 7-4 before Purdy.  Since then they have lost what 3-4 games in which Purdy didn't get hurt? Can't really rip them for no SB with Purdy when he's played 1 year and got hurt in the game.

I'm not ripping them for not having won a SB...just the opposite. I think it's impressive how they're consistently in the NFCCG or a SB despite not having elite QBs.

And you could do the same thing with Jimmy G. He got hurt in week 6 in 2020, so...the 6-10 isn't really on him. 

Lost to the Rams in the NFCCG in 2021 when they won it. 

Last year they were the hottest team in the NFL when Jimmy G got hurt having won 5 in a row... and Jimmy G and Purdy put up nearly identical stats.

Purdy was ready to play, but I think it's also just a sign that SF is so loaded, they don't need a superstar(though if they'd have gotten Stafford, Rodgers or a better QB, probably a safe bet they'd have won at least one if not multiple SBs.

3 hours ago, tmwiese55 said:

But folks who've been saying he'll crap the bed also shouldn't act like it proves them right when they've been wrong like 30 weeks leading up to it.  Also, most of the elite elite guys have done it too, as we saw too many times here in GB

I'm not really waiting for him to crap the bed. Frankly, I think he did that vs us last week, we just blew it. 

3 hours ago, tmwiese55 said:

Guess I'm saying now that a guy has shown he has all that it seems off to continue to slander him because he doesn't have a Jamarcus Russell cannon.  I can't believe Purdy drafted where he was can nail those very difficult deep outs dropped in between zones, but he does. Those are the real test if their arms are good enough, if they can make that throw.

Is he really being slandered though? I think it's just a realistic view of his talents. He's competent QB in an incredible system that has 6 All Pros on his side of the ball. 

I don't think he's got that big arm, I don't think he can thread that needle vs C2 on that route that Love hit vs Philly last year...I think that limits his upside, but I guess I'm missing something. I didn't see Purdy slandered so much as it was pointed out...they've won with numerous QBs and he's not elite. 

3 hours ago, tmwiese55 said:

It'll be interesting how he handles the contract, maybe realize his limitations and not demand 50 mil. Easy for us to say when its not our money, but there is some possibility you could end up making more by taking less, doing well, keep making that every year.  Take the big one, team goes downhill, they might cut you to get out of the contract so you lose all the non gtd money. Next thing you know you're bouncing around like your Wentz's, Jimmy, etc types. 

Well, he can't sign until next off-season, but it'll be interesting to see where both sides are at that point. 50M by that point may not be in the top half of the salaries, but I take your point. If he wants to be paid among the elite.

 

I don't know if he deserves to be, but we'll see. There's plenty of time between now and then that he should answer the question if he's more than Jimmy G or if he's just a guy who's good enough to win with, but not someone you win because of...as was the case with Jimmy G(or I'd argue Kaep). 

[LouisEly]

On 1/21/2024 at 1:45 PM, Strike4 said:

Was just going to say the same.  I don’t think Love trusted (with good reason) Nijman to hold up against Bosa. I saw somewhere that Wallace was out the last drive and Royce Newman was in for him - which really will make you jumpy

I don't know who Wallace is, but Newman wasn't credited with any offensive snaps:

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2024/1/23/24046929/packers-divisional-round-snap-counts-49ers-expose-the-middle-of-the-packers-defense

Walker was credited with 100% of the offensive snaps.

[tmwiese55]

20 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

If the question is if they got results out of their QBs, I think going back 10 years is a pretty reasonable time frame and relevant, especially since the 49ers have had the same general identity for years now.

Build an elite defense, play-makers around them, and then try to win without an elite QB.

I'm not ripping them for not having won a SB...just the opposite. I think it's impressive how they're consistently in the NFCCG or a SB despite not having elite QBs.

And you could do the same thing with Jimmy G. He got hurt in week 6 in 2020, so...the 6-10 isn't really on him. 

Lost to the Rams in the NFCCG in 2021 when they won it. 

Last year they were the hottest team in the NFL when Jimmy G got hurt having won 5 in a row... and Jimmy G and Purdy put up nearly identical stats.

Purdy was ready to play, but I think it's also just a sign that SF is so loaded, they don't need a superstar(though if they'd have gotten Stafford, Rodgers or a better QB, probably a safe bet they'd have won at least one if not multiple SBs.

I'm not really waiting for him to crap the bed. Frankly, I think he did that vs us last week, we just blew it. 

Is he really being slandered though? I think it's just a realistic view of his talents. He's competent QB in an incredible system that has 6 All Pros on his side of the ball. 

I don't think he's got that big arm, I don't think he can thread that needle vs C2 on that route that Love hit vs Philly last year...I think that limits his upside, but I guess I'm missing something. I didn't see Purdy slandered so much as it was pointed out...they've won with numerous QBs and he's not elite. 

Well, he can't sign until next off-season, but it'll be interesting to see where both sides are at that point. 50M by that point may not be in the top half of the salaries, but I take your point. If he wants to be paid among the elite.

 

I don't know if he deserves to be, but we'll see. There's plenty of time between now and then that he should answer the question if he's more than Jimmy G or if he's just a guy who's good enough to win with, but not someone you win because of...as was the case with Jimmy G(or I'd argue Kaep). 

All good.    But yea, Jimmy got hurt and they went 6-10.  That's kind of the point, Its not so easy for any idiot to step in like is being acted like with Purdy.   The team with various other QB situations did worse than they're doing with him.  Jimmy was good, Purdy has been clearly better. All other guys who've had to step in when Jimmy was down (supposedly anyone can do it?) did badly and lost.     For a franchise yes the Kap/Harbaugh era is a feather in the cap, they're very well run just like GB in general.  But this discussion of this iteration of the team that is so loaded and so well coached that anyone could do what Purdy is doing it is totally irrelevant. 

Your last paragraph is good and pretty much where I'm at too. I'm basically saying Jimmy/Goff type guys are still good,  You generally are too, or at least aren't saying the suck.   More or less, I'm just pushing back on the negativity of sports talk these days and so much being so black/white of awesome/goat!! or "he sucks".  I know you're not saying that, and I'm not saying he's on the Mahomes/Rodgers tier either.