E. Ruiz situation with Joey Ortiz maybe?

[Scooterfletcher]

When we acquired E. Ruiz in the Hader deal, we could rationalize it if we tried but his inclusion in the deal didn’t make a lot of sense fit-wise at this time.

 

i keep coming back to Cabrera of the Marlins and can’t help but wonder if Joey Ortiz might be headed to the Marlins for Cabrera?   Or elsewhere for a starter?  It seems to me that the possibility of Ortiz moving right along for a good starter and the Brewers going another year with Adames before  turning the reins over to Bryce Turang should be discussed at the least .

[KCBrewerfan34]

We should check in on the Mariners. Their SP is very attractive. I love Woo

[dave]

Good point on Ortiz.  It isn't necessarily Adames that gets moved. It could be Turang, Ortiz, or Adames...nice to have three shortstops when several teams need one

[Brewcrew82]

Joey Ortiz isn't going anywhere in the absence of an Adames extension.

[Jenkins5]

I don't think so really. Ruiz, there was a clear log jam building. He was valuable but didn't have clean path. He was brought in for depth and competition. He balled out with call up, we could have seen another OF like Weimer or Mitchell become open. 

Ortiz has an opportunity to be an every day player this year for the Brewers. He offers elite D at 2B,SS, and 3B. Whether he wins wide open 3B race, beats out Turang at 2B, or is their almost everyday utility guy. He has a chance Ruiz did not, to come in and win everyday role. 

Honestly, objectively from metrics across minors and home grown biased aside, is Turang for sure the better player between the two? Granted, Turang was younger at every level than Ortiz, but they both offer Gold Glove D Turang I think grades out higher though. Both similar K Rates,  OBP is pretty close to each other in .360 average range (Ortiz hits more, Brice walks more). Biggest difference is Ortiz absolutely smokes the ball and puts up big Exit Velos. Brice not so much. Ortiz consistently was Iso'ing over .18 (Turang averaged out around .10). Ortiz consistently slugged over .450 (over .500 past 2 years) where Turang has only hit .400 once (outside of short stint in 23'). Both have speed but I give that to Turang. 

Ortiz needs to come into Spring and prove it, Turang had a year to learn and adjust already at MLB level but Ortiz could very easily take over for Turang or be platoon partner for him.

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, Jenkins5 said:

 

...but Ortiz could very easily take over for Turang or be platoon partner for him.

That depends on how the new manger feels about it.  If he has an open mind, yup, agreed.  If he has a CC mind, Turang will get first dibs, and even if he fails, will still get the call...

[umphrey]

👀 I thought most people considered Ortiz a straight upgrade over Turang, but I only skimmed his stats and write ups 

[StearnsFTW]

I would be shocked and dismayed if they traded him.

[jay87shot]

Ortiz isn't going anywhere my guess is Black starts at AAA (to gain extra year of control) and Ortiz is 3B. When Black comes up. Black plays some 3B and some 1B (Hoskins DH) until Adames get traded.

[Playing Catch]

I wasn't a big fan of Ruiz. I trusted the org to make good decisions, so it didn't bother me, but his scouting/production just seemed too goofy for my tastes. Ortiz, on the other hand, is my kind of prospect. He's consistently productive, good scouting reports/tools, well-rounded, high floor. Position of need. He was the O's prospect I wanted included in any trade with the O's, so I'm thrilled. Thanks to the recent exit velos, I think he's probably an all-around better version of Luis Urias, where he can play short, run the bases, take solid, professional ABs.

[TURBO]

On 2/4/2024 at 11:39 AM, jay87shot said:

Ortiz isn't going anywhere my guess is Black starts at AAA (to gain extra year of control) and Ortiz is 3B. When Black comes up. Black plays some 3B and some 1B (Hoskins DH) until Adames get traded.

If we keep Adames, I think there is a better shot that Black starts on the opening day roster, and Turang starts at AAA.

1B Hoskins, 2B Ortiz, SS Adames, 3B Black.

This is what I'd hope to see, and this is what I'm expecting.

Of course, if Turang rips up spring training and Ortiz does not, that might be a factor in what happens, obviously.

[Jack]

On 2/3/2024 at 2:17 PM, Jenkins5 said:

Ortiz has an opportunity to be an every day player this year for the Brewers. He offers elite D at 2B,SS, and 3B. Whether he wins wide open 3B race, beats out Turang at 2B, or is their almost everyday utility guy.

I feel that this is far more important than you're giving it credit for.  If Adames is traded, he could win the starting SS job.  If all else were equal, the additional positional versatility of being a good defensive option at three positions, rather than just two for Turang, is a plus.

But I'm not even convinced about the "if all else were equal".

Of course, as you say, he needs to prove it...

[Playing Catch]

On 2/6/2024 at 10:16 PM, Jack said:

the additional positional versatility of being a good defensive option at three positions, rather than just two for Turang, is a plus.

The only reason Turang couldn't play 3rd, is because the Brewers don't start Omar Vizquel and Bill Mazeroski at SS and 2B, and that Turang's bat at 3rd would be silly.

The only reason Ortiz isn't JUST a middle infielder, is because the expectation is that he's got the stick to play at 3rd.

If the Brewers part with Adames, the Brewers are hoping Turang can hit well enough to be their everyday shortstop.

[stalton]

One thought I had regarding the potential QO next year. So many players are signing 1 or 2 year prove it deals. Like with the arbitration discussion in the Hader thread, I feel that the QO requirements reflect a past market and not the current one. I doubt Adames gets 2/50 so we are looking at a 3 year deal minimum.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think they will trade Adames, but if they don't I'd play Adames at 3B. Ortiz at SS, and Black at 2B.  Would Adames be too proud to shift to 3B?  Maybe, but after the year he had in 2023, and the fact the Brewers don't seem interested in an extension, what leverage does Adames have?

[monty57]

On 2/6/2024 at 9:15 PM, TURBO said:

If we keep Adames, I think there is a better shot that Black starts on the opening day roster, and Turang starts at AAA.

1B Hoskins, 2B Ortiz, SS Adames, 3B Black.

This is what I'd hope to see, and this is what I'm expecting.

Of course, if Turang rips up spring training and Ortiz does not, that might be a factor in what happens, obviously.

I think you are correct that Black should be the 3B, meaning that if Adames is retained we'd have a competition between Ortiz and Turang for playing time.

The reason Black may not be on the opening day roster is for service time reasons. They could start the season with Turang at 2B, Adames at SS and Ortiz at 3B with Monastario or someone else as the utility guy. Then a few weeks into the season, Black could come up and replace whoever isn't performing at the MLB level.

Could come down to whether they think Black has a realistic shot at Rookie of the Year. Otherwise, getting a full year of him as a 29-year old is worth more than a few weeks to start this season.

[Playing Catch]

55 minutes ago, monty57 said:

Could come down to whether they think Black has a realistic shot at Rookie of the Year.

As prospect-profiles go, he'd probably have a better shot than a lot of rookies. If he were to get 600 ABs (he won't, but IF), he would walk a lot and probably steal some bases. The defensive concerns don't matter as much when considering ROY.