2024 - 25 Wisconsin Basketball Thread

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

12 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

I realize it's still very early, but is it possible that this version of the Badgers is better than the hypothetical 2024-25 team that includes Hepburn, Storr, and Essegian?

Essegian was on the bench as Nebraska trailed Saint Mary's by three in the dying seconds on Sunday. Tells you a little bit about where he stands when he's not on the floor even when his best skill is the thing his new team needs most at the end of a game.

Not trying to be snarky there. It's just maybe a little bit of evidence for why Gard seemed to trust Essegian so little last year. I wasn't sure about it at the time, and I'm still not. But maybe he's just a more limited player than he appeared at times as a Badger frosh.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

22 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

That's a legit concern. I felt like the defense was gradually getting better, then some struggles vs Arizona which I wasn't jumping off a bridge about because, well, Arizona. There was at least energy & effort there. Tonight it got better when they were forced to go small but I agree the 1st half needed to be lots better. They've had years where it took awhile to hit whatever defensive stride they're capable of, and looking at the personnel I think it can happen. But there's so much emphasis on help, positioning & trying to minimize the dribble drives that I don't know if they'll force many TOs. Especially tonight, where you had to go small. You can't exactly take chances and, if you don't recover, funnel everything into Carter Gilmore for a blocked shot.

looking at the big picture I'm a little more concerned about the rebounding.

Yeah, I took a look at UTRGV's games against Nebraska and Creighton, and it made me feel a bit better about the Badgers clawing out a win. That team has sped up everyone they've played and kept first halves tight against decent competition (down eight at Creighton, who's going to contend in the BEast). They seem legit tough to defend. Creighton beat them by shooting 60% from 2. Nebraska beat them by turning them over 20 times (and UTRVG shot less well from deep).

I guess my thought is that a low-end outcome seems like the Badgers could be a poor man's Creighton. Neither team turns people over. Both can be extremely efficient offensively. Creighton is more comfortable playing quickly, and they have Kalkbrenner, who brings rim-protection and improves the defensive efficiency quite a bit.

A more optimistic outlook is that the Badgers just get better defensively and end up as comfortable in 65-possession games as 75- or 80-possession ones. I'll be hoping for that.

The FT shooting is a HUGE difference maker compared to the last couple years. Having a team that can convert at the line, especially when it seems like games are being officiated tightly, at least early on, is going to help them put games away more easily than in the recent past.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Yeah, I took a look at UTRGV's games against Nebraska and Creighton, and it made me feel a bit better about the Badgers clawing out a win. That team has sped up everyone they've played and kept first halves tight against decent competition (down eight at Creighton, who's going to contend in the BEast). They seem legit tough to defend. Creighton beat them by shooting 60% from 2. Nebraska beat them by turning them over 20 times (and UTRVG shot less well from deep).

I guess my thought is that a low-end outcome seems like the Badgers could be a poor man's Creighton. Neither team turns people over. Both can be extremely efficient offensively. Creighton is more comfortable playing quickly, and they have Kalkbrenner, who brings rim-protection and improves the defensive efficiency quite a bit.

A more optimistic outlook is that the Badgers just get better defensively and end up as comfortable in 65-possession games as 75- or 80-possession ones. I'll be hoping for that.

The FT shooting is a HUGE difference maker compared to the last couple years. Having a team that can convert at the line, especially when it seems like games are being officiated tightly, at least early on, is going to help them put games away more easily than in the recent past.

After watching the game Monday night, I imagine Kalkbrenner HAD to score a crapload of points (49) to be able to stay on the floor defensively vs that team. But like Gard said in the presser, if they had gotten some separation & maintained a lead they would've been able to play bigger. Didn't help in that regard that Crowl missed 2-3 close in shots in the 1st half.

If history is any indication, they'll get better defensively. How much better is the key. It's no coincidence that a fifth-year kid (Gilmore) & 3rd-year guy (McGee) are able to help turn things on that end. Hope to see the light come on for guys like Tonje, Amos & Winter more & more as the year unfolds. Janicki, it's just fun to watch him impact games already. Kid certainly didn't waste practice time during his RS year..

If they continue to get the green light on threes & make them, Creighton sounds like a pretty good comp.

 

[Samurai Bucky]

On 11/19/2024 at 4:53 AM, Oxy said:

Webster was a pure PG...UW has had lots of studs there.  Tucker played his Frosh year with a Sr Kirk Penney, but Alando actually played power forward that year.  '14 had Dekker, Brust and Gasser--who are probably better but not nearly as individually versatile as the current 3.

 

One of my favorite pictures of Alando:

[LouisEly]

On 11/19/2024 at 6:52 AM, Playing Catch said:

The Vaqueros shot great last night. The kind of performance that wipes out a 3-seed in the tournament. But the Badgers won. I'm not going to think too hard about it.

Yeah, they only lost by 13 at Creighton who is ranked #15 now.  Shot 40% from 3 against them and had 12 steals.  Abdul Hakim had 26 and 11.  Biggest difference is that they shot 82% from the FT line and 49% from the field against UW vs 60% and 43% vs Creighton.  Nobody is going to want to see them in March.

[homer]

UW's defense is a limiting factor and probably interior defense to be specific. UTRGV shot 60% on two-point attempts against UW. Against Creighton they shot 45% on two point shots. One game doesn't tell the whole story obviously (and maybe they made all mid range jumpers) but I think UW may struggle against teams with strong inside games. 

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

3 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Yeah, they only lost by 13 at Creighton who is ranked #15 now.  Shot 40% from 3 against them and had 12 steals.  Abdul Hakim had 26 and 11.  Biggest difference is that they shot 82% from the FT line and 49% from the field against UW vs 60% and 43% vs Creighton.  Nobody is going to want to see them in March.

They'll have to deal with a loaded McNese (Will Wade coached) roster to get out of the Southland, but yeah, I agree. They look like a difficult matchup.

Back to the Badgers, the Greenbrier interests me deeply. I think UCF is the kind of team that can give UW fits. They've already got home wins over Fla Atlantic (who should be decent, despite a lot of departures) and Texas A & M. Both at home, but that's a tournament team if they can do anything at all on the road in the B12.

Badgers should be favored, but I bet it'll be by just a possession.

[Jim French Stepstool]

45 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

They'll have to deal with a loaded McNese (Will Wade coached) roster to get out of the Southland, but yeah, I agree. They look like a difficult matchup.

Back to the Badgers, the Greenbrier interests me deeply. I think UCF is the kind of team that can give UW fits. They've already got home wins over Fla Atlantic (who should be decent, despite a lot of departures) and Texas A & M. Both at home, but that's a tournament team if they can do anything at all on the road in the B12.

Badgers should be favored, but I bet it'll be by just a possession.

Yep, that's an interesting tourney. LSU & Pitt on the other side of the bracket; neither has been greatly tested yet but LSU did win at Kansas State in the only road game between the two. At least on paper it looks like four really evenly-matched teams.

My wife won't recognize UCF. Then I'll say "remember the team from a few years back that had the 7'6" guy?"

"Oh, yeah!!!"

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, homer said:

UW's defense is a limiting factor and probably interior defense to be specific. UTRGV shot 60% on two-point attempts against UW. Against Creighton they shot 45% on two point shots. One game doesn't tell the whole story obviously (and maybe they made all mid range jumpers) but I think UW may struggle against teams with strong inside games. 

I think Winter & Crowls' interior defense will be, maybe not great but acceptable when they're facing guys similar to them--post players w/o a ton of mobility that try to do most of their work around the cup. IMO the wild card in the deck is Amos. He's never had much exposure to the physical game in the paint, and needs to get better at it. It would make the difference between him being a spot player, and someone that might challenge Winter for a starting spot.

I wonder how often we'll see the two bigs on the floor together moving forward. Not everyone on the sked can fill the floor w/five shooters like UTRGV did, but even playing one of them & going with more versatility in the other spots on the floor sure looked good vs Arizona.

Either way you're right, they need to show improvement guarding folks.

[Playing Catch]

The "arena," for the Greenbrier is a theater/ballroom space. I can't imagine they can fit more than 1200 seats in there.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

On 11/21/2024 at 6:42 AM, Playing Catch said:

The "arena," for the Greenbrier is a theater/ballroom space. I can't imagine they can fit more than 1200 seats in there.

I hate those games. They had the same thing at the Bahamas tournament last night. Great Saint John's-Baylor game, but a weird environment, especially lighting-wise.

[Jim French Stepstool]

I guess if they can play on aircraft carriers they can play in ballrooms. A long time ago many of these holiday tourneys have become made-for-TV events with a small 'studio audience' looking for a 3-4 day weekend trip.

Watching a little bit of the 1st game at Greenbrier. Neither team looks all that great offensively but Pitt contests & recovers very well defensively.

Looks like quite a bit of red in the "stands", so maybe a semi-home court advantage. Keyshawn Hall (#4) of UCF will be a tough guard for us.

[Playing Catch]

Because I think the Badgers will go into most games with an advantage at the guard spots, I think a lot of the games versus better-than-average teams this year will come down to if Crowl/Winter can matchup effectively enough on both ends. Versus UTRGV they were ineffective on BOTH ends. If one or both can do it at least on one end, that will give UW an advantage.

Looks like UCF likes to shoot FTs and go get orbs.

I'll say it will be a 78-75, Badgers win in a physical, choppy game with lower shooting percentages where one or both teams blame the environment.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

Because I think the Badgers will go into most games with an advantage at the guard spots, I think a lot of the games versus better-than-average teams this year will come down to if Crowl/Winter can matchup effectively enough on both ends. Versus UTRGV they were ineffective on BOTH ends. If one or both can do it at least on one end, that will give UW an advantage.

Looks like UCF likes to shoot FTs and go get orbs.

I'll say it will be a 78-75, Badgers win in a physical, choppy game with lower shooting percentages where one or both teams blame the environment.

It looks to me like the personnel for UCF will allow at least one of the bigs to be on the floor pretty regularly. Of course Crowl will probably be doing some sitting w/3 fouls after a really dumb technical.

Would like to see a little better job defending the dribble drives, but other than that a nice half. Either we started to foul more later in the half, or Johnny Dawkins evoked his inner coach K & started talking the refs into calling things tighter. Either way, making them score in the half court looks like a good idea.

Lots of nice 'extra passes' offensively.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Just a really good game from the Badgers. Tonje got to the basket at will. UCF never got into a groove (despite what I thought was a pretty friendly whistle in the first half at least). Defense made them take tough shots, and they couldn't finish.

McGee really sparked the Badgers early. That was nice to see after a tough one on Monday.

Posting this with the Badgers in front by 23, five minutes to go, so if things get crazy, my fault I guess.

Pitt will be a great neutral court test early. Guessing the Badgers will be underdogs, but it's the kind of game you hope for in these MTEs.

[Oxy]

It's amazing how many "favorite Badger Bball teams" I've had in the last 30 years.

[homer]

UCF beat Texas A&M who were ranked 13th preseason. Good win.

[Jim French Stepstool]

One of the more impressive things to me was how UCF tried mightily to make it an up & down game, and it didn't seem to bother us at all. Got back on D well most of the game, and had a bunch of really smart, poised possessions in the game. And not in a Dick Bennett sort of way, either. They've upped the tempo but have done it in a way where they're still (mostly) taking care of the ball and making really good decisions. And the 6th thru 9th men contributed greatly on both ends.

You'd like to find good things to say about these national telecasts, but man, sometimes they make it tough. Someone in studio (I have no idea who it was) started out his commentary by saying Greg Gard had to keep winning to "stay off the hotseat". Some comments come from out of LF, that one wasn't even in the stadium parking lot. Then they show a graphic of John Tonjes' 41 point outing against North Dakota.

Oh well. Looks to me like the game with Pitt might be a bit of a change from the first six contests in that it may be in the 60s. Panthers guard pretty well.

[Playing Catch]

Badgers dominated a decent opponent on a (somewhat) neutral floor. I thought the decision-making offensively was extremely impressive and decisive. They moved the ball really, really well. This team is one of the most skilled Badger teams 1-7 that they've had in a long time, and might be the most entertaining watch since the F4 teams.

[homer]

tough stretch coming up  they've got Pitt, Marquette, Illinois and Michigan all before Dec 10

[Playing Catch]

1 hour ago, homer said:

tough stretch coming up  they've got Pitt, Marquette, Illinois and Michigan all before Dec 10

4-0.

[AKCheesehead]

If any of you had "broken shot clock" on your bingo card for today, congrats.  I think you win.

[homer]

It's John Tonje's world

 

[yourout]

There should be a minimum standard for facility's to host D1 games.

[yourout]

Heck of a win.