2024 - 25 Wisconsin Basketball Thread

[Playing Catch]

1 hour ago, Oxy said:

What an eclectic group of seniors!  Transfers, walk-ons, preferred walk ons, all americans, all-conference players, development stories, Wisconsinites, Minnesotans, foreign players, graduate students, little guys, big guys, medium guys, shooters....scorers....more shooters.

Marcus Ilver
Kamari McGee
Carter Gilmore
Max Klesmit
John Tonje
Steven Crowl

Grinders, to a man. One of the best groups to have ever enjoyed senior day. That top 6 alone would get to the tournament.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Obviously a game they should win today, on paper. But the memory of the egg they laid on SR Day vs Nebraska a couple years back is fresh enough in my memory. UW has had just enough trouble with TOs vs perimeter pressure that a PSU team that isn't bad at it will probably give that a try. They have enough length & athleticism to cause problems for stretches.

Klesmit still out. That's too damn bad. Sr Day was made for a kid like him.

Konan-Niederhauser is a non-physical big that has very impressive length, athletic ability and a decent amount of skill. In this era of committing to a program w/o actually committing, I can't help but wonder if during his previous season at Northern Illinois maybe he developed enough of a friendship with Xavier Amos that he'd consider another move. With a little more muscle he could be a real defensive game-changer.

[Jim French Stepstool]

13 hours ago, yourout said:

Everybody needs to thank me. I turned it off when Purdue was up by 5:00 late thinking that I was probably the jinx.

Funny game. PU was taking control late, which wasn't surprising. Then Jakucionis made a huge three, and PU did exactly what they needed to do. Keep it in Smiths' hands. He just missed shots; and one time got it in Kaufmann-Renns' hands in a great spot & Riley made maybe the play of the game to strip him. The Fighting Underwoods just owned the last three minutes & I didn't see it coming.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Halftime note to John Blackwell; Yes, you were fouled by a defender on your way to the cup & it wasn't called. That DOES NOT give you a free pass to shove a guy out of the way in front of the officials a minute later. His 2nd foul, which resulted in PSU attacking on the other end causing Janicki to commit HIS 2nd foul. It fueled the whole sequence that got PSU within 5 at the half, really. At this time of the season, you just can't afford to be that dumb.

[adambr2]

In the last two weeks I’ve gone from being really excited about March to thinking that a Sweet 16 appearance would probably be a good accomplishment.

[OldHeidelberg]

Just now, adambr2 said:

In the last two weeks I’ve gone from being really excited about March to thinking that a Sweet 16 appearance would probably be a good accomplishment.

Fading to a 5 seed and 1st round loss seems more likely at this point. 

[AKCheesehead]

31 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

In the last two weeks I’ve gone from being really excited about March to thinking that a Sweet 16 appearance would probably be a good accomplishment.

I mean, a sweet 16 appearance would be a decent accomplishment.  Of course we'd all love to see even more, but there isn't much shame in losing in the round of 16 unless you're a 1 or 2. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

Since the aforementioned foul Blackwell committed, I think they were outscored something like 59-35 over the last 25 minutes or so. It didn't cost them the game all by itself, but it epitomized the mindset they fell into after (apparently) thinking that after building a lead this was simply a Senior Day celebration. To Penn State, it was a damn basketball game.

You can be coached by Dick Bennett, Tarkanian or any pace of play in-between. It doesn't matter; if you lose your intensity & your desire to make the right decisions & let yourself get lazy it can be real hard to get it back. They turned UW into a team that needed to hit threes & even when they drop, that's not us. It didn't help that Konan-Niederhauser was pretty much relegated to waiting at the rim for whatever drives were attempted.

IMO the chances of them making a tournament run are the same as they've always been. Get healthy. And the probing, the ball-man movement, the 'smarts' can't ever go away. A fast pace can grab you a big lead. If you aren't smart, it'll give it right back. Learn from it.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I wasn't able to watch on Saturday (and I suppose I'm glad for that), so I can't really comment on the game itself. Sounds like a combination of a bad matchup, some bad decisions, and the Klesmit injury catching up to them.

Big picture:

I've always thought making the Sweet 16 would be the goal. That should pretty much always be the goal for the Badgers given the broader landscape. Regardless of the results this coming week, the Badgers should be a 3 or 4 seed, which will put them in home jerseys all weekend. Hard to complain too much about that.

I know others have expected more, and I know the borderline top-10 ranking suggested a title contender. I've never really bought in on this team to that level. The offense is great, the defense has been better, but it's a streaky crew that struggles against really tough defensive teams and sometimes struggles on D and on the glass. Turnovers are also an issue, as we've seen. They should be sizeable favorites in round 1 (and another loss there would be a huge disappointment), but, as with most teams, everything else is matchup dependent.

Of course, for me, I want to be clear that this team overachieved this year. As they often do. They surpassed expectations, and that should be worth something, even if they can't reach the second weekend. I'd say: if there's an L in game one of the NCAA tourney, that sours and probably overshadows an otherwise good year and maybe lends some credence to the "can they do it in March" conversation. If they win one and then lose in the round of 32, it's pretty much a satisfying year, as long as they don't lose to a Cinderella team or blow a game they should win, a la Notre Dame in Gard's first year.

Anything past that is a big success. Just my rubric.

[Playing Catch]

The disappointing PSU loss:

They built a big-ish lead on a lazy, senior-day afternoon. The players began thinking about celebrating with their families after the game, relaxing all week before a Friday game (or so I imagine). They allowed PSU to shoot an eFG% of .664 (!), and we're outrebounded. That stinks of poor effort.

This team got complacent with a big lead... again. They paid for it. The Badgers have a record of 5-5 on senior day under Gard. Two losses versus highly ranked teams, but also losses against Nebraska and PSU. What is Gard's overall B1G winning percentage at home? .700?

Considering this is 10 HOME games that take place at the same time every season, and usually with similar stakes, I think it's fair to question the coaching staff's preparation for senior day. Senior Day is a unique challenge for players and coaching staffs. Preparing the team to handle the unique challenges and pressures associated with it is real.

I'm not sure a 10 game sample is large enough to draw many conclusions, but it makes me wonder.

These games contribute to the belief that Gard's teams fade late in the year. I don't know that I believe that, but I also get tired of needing to defend late-season performances like this. This was a LOUSY loss.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

The disappointing PSU loss:

They built a big-ish lead on a lazy, senior-day afternoon. The players began thinking about celebrating with their families after the game, relaxing all week before a Friday game (or so I imagine). They allowed PSU to shoot an eFG% of .664 (!), and we're outrebounded. That stinks of poor effort.

This team got complacent with a big lead... again. They paid for it. The Badgers have a record of 5-5 on senior day under Gard. Two losses versus highly ranked teams, but also losses against Nebraska and PSU. What is Gard's overall B1G winning percentage at home? .700?

Considering this is 10 HOME games that take place at the same time every season, and usually with similar stakes, I think it's fair to question the coaching staff's preparation for senior day. Senior Day is a unique challenge for players and coaching staffs. Preparing the team to handle the unique challenges and pressures associated with it is real.

I'm not sure a 10 game sample is large enough to draw many conclusions, but it makes me wonder.

These games contribute to the belief that Gard's teams fade late in the year. I don't know that I believe that, but I also get tired of needing to defend late-season performances like this. This was a LOUSY loss.

To me there was a lot of similarity between the final 5-6 minutes of regulation vs Oregon, and the final 5 minutes of the 1st half Saturday. And yes, I think the effort/intensity level changing had a LOT to do with it. It's one of those things that's dangerous because it can happen very subtly, and if your opponent doesn't buy into the idea that it's time to coast then you wasted a lot of effort building the advantage. 'Killer instinct' is one of those cliches the media throws out there, but it's really just maintaining the effort/smarts that put you in the drivers' seat to begin with. In two recent instances now, IMO we went into "Up by 20 w/two minutes left" mode. Now that it's repeated itself, the coaches need to be on top of it. But it's on the players, really.

I would doubt the game prep changes on Sr Days compared to other games. Like I said, to me it was eerily similar to late in regulation vs Oregon. Foot off the gas......mentally as much as anything else......has to be addressed.

[Jim French Stepstool]

5 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

I wasn't able to watch on Saturday (and I suppose I'm glad for that), so I can't really comment on the game itself. Sounds like a combination of a bad matchup, some bad decisions, and the Klesmit injury catching up to them.

Big picture:

I've always thought making the Sweet 16 would be the goal. That should pretty much always be the goal for the Badgers given the broader landscape. Regardless of the results this coming week, the Badgers should be a 3 or 4 seed, which will put them in home jerseys all weekend. Hard to complain too much about that.

I know others have expected more, and I know the borderline top-10 ranking suggested a title contender. I've never really bought in on this team to that level. The offense is great, the defense has been better, but it's a streaky crew that struggles against really tough defensive teams and sometimes struggles on D and on the glass. Turnovers are also an issue, as we've seen. They should be sizeable favorites in round 1 (and another loss there would be a huge disappointment), but, as with most teams, everything else is matchup dependent.

Of course, for me, I want to be clear that this team overachieved this year. As they often do. They surpassed expectations, and that should be worth something, even if they can't reach the second weekend. I'd say: if there's an L in game one of the NCAA tourney, that sours and probably overshadows an otherwise good year and maybe lends some credence to the "can they do it in March" conversation. If they win one and then lose in the round of 32, it's pretty much a satisfying year, as long as they don't lose to a Cinderella team or blow a game they should win, a la Notre Dame in Gard's first year.

Anything past that is a big success. Just my rubric.

IMO the late-season stuff needs to be tempered.....to a point. Yes, there have been disappointments. What I see tourney-wise:

19-20) Arguably his best team of the last half decade is playing their best ball at the end of the season & gets the post season cancelled on them.

20-21) They blow out UNC, then lose to the eventual nat'l champ by 13.

21-22) A very subpar two games in Milwaukee. But they find a way to avoid the upset in round one, then lose Hepburn for over half the ISU game.

22-23) An NIT team that probably was at the level they deserved, after losing Davis prematurely.

23-24) I'm as aware as anyone about the shortcomings they had offensively w/Tyler Wahl on the floor. But he wasn't close to 100% for a # of games, and that didn't help. JMU was a 12 seed that is giving a lot of people fits if they play well, and they did. The End.

Maybe it's just me, but what overshadows all of this is how they so drastically changed the pace/philosophy of the offense without really missing a beat AFA wins & losses

My biggest concern right now is Klesmit & Winter.

 

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

2 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

IMO the late-season stuff needs to be tempered.....to a point. Yes, there have been disappointments. What I see tourney-wise:

19-20) Arguably his best team of the last half decade is playing their best ball at the end of the season & gets the post season cancelled on them.

20-21) They blow out UNC, then lose to the eventual nat'l champ by 13.

21-22) A very subpar two games in Milwaukee. But they find a way to avoid the upset in round one, then lose Hepburn for over half the ISU game.

22-23) An NIT team that probably was at the level they deserved, after losing Davis prematurely.

23-24) I'm as aware as anyone about the shortcomings they had offensively w/Tyler Wahl on the floor. But he wasn't close to 100% for a # of games, and that didn't help. JMU was a 12 seed that is giving a lot of people fits if they play well, and they did. The End.

Maybe it's just me, but what overshadows all of this is how they so drastically changed the pace/philosophy of the offense without really missing a beat AFA wins & losses

My biggest concern right now is Klesmit & Winter.

 

Yup, single-elimination basketball is a beast. This program knows what it's doing. It is incredibly consistent and always giving itself a chance in March. It's flexible and adaptable and has survived the NIL era MUCH better than the football side of the program. 

There is a pattern of teams not playing as well as they could in March, that post-COVID year excepted. A lot of that is just bad luck and bad timing. 

Still, the last two years have seen some hard fades down the stretch. JMU beats a lot of people, and that was an awful matchup, but I expected a better effort from a trendy upset pick. The Badgers were never really in the game. 

Would it be wrong to say that Gard's teams lack the toughness of Bo's? I don't mean that as a harsh critique, and I prefer the Gard teams aesthetically and acknowledge they're better built for the modern game. Toughness is also subjective. I am just wondering aloud. I hope it proves a ridiculous question in time.

[Jimbo]

Well, the Badger women are again out a coach.  Wonder what the real scoop is behind this.  Will McIntosh be involved in the new hire, or an associate?  Going on 25 years, just can't seem to get it right.

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

 

Would it be wrong to say that Gard's teams lack the toughness of Bo's? I don't mean that as a harsh critique, and I prefer the Gard teams aesthetically and acknowledge they're better built for the modern game. Toughness is also subjective. I am just wondering aloud. I hope it proves a ridiculous question in time.

I liked the toughness they showed at times during the season, in particular vs Pitt, in Minneapolis & in WL. But when compared to what Bo instilled, I think it's a fair question to ask. Still, when I look at crunch time (that didn't need to be) vs Oregon & the way they closed out the half vs PSU, is it toughness? Lack of focus at inopportune times? Just dumb basketball? You shrink the # possessions when protecting a lead. Vs Oregon, we could've had the same issues w/TOs, but if they don't happen so quickly they either have no time to come back, or are putting us on the line before the TOs occur. 

Toughness & smarts, especially with this program, need to be intertwined.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Max Klesmit has returned to practice & while there's been no official announcement, it sounds like he'll be returning for the BTT.

No update re Nolan Winter.

[RedStickBrew]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Max Klesmit has returned to practice & while there's been no official announcement, it sounds like he'll be returning for the BTT.

No update re Nolan Winter.

I read that Klesmit will play. Winter did practice and should be good to go

[Jim French Stepstool]

After watching NU-Minn yesterday, I think NU will be the bigger challenge today. The good news is that their starters played a lot of minutes, which could be telling once we get into the last 10-12 minutes. You kinda feel like Martinelli is going to play his unconventional game & score his 20 or 25 pts regardless of how you guard him. Just keep their guards (particularly Berry) from getting comfortable, and hopefully Crowl & Winter can make Nicholson guard them in uncomfortable spots on the floor, which would also open up some driving lanes. Mostly, I just want to see the doldrums that cropped up vs Oregon & Penn State expunged forever.

Collins can be pretty annoying. A damn good coach who, when things aren't going his way, is quick to make a big show of blaming officials. Maybe that derives from his days as a player & assistant, when he was living in a world where he seldom had to be concerned about such things.

[AKCheesehead]

On 3/10/2025 at 4:17 PM, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Yup, single-elimination basketball is a beast. This program knows what it's doing. It is incredibly consistent and always giving itself a chance in March. It's flexible and adaptable and has survived the NIL era MUCH better than the football side of the program. 

There is a pattern of teams not playing as well as they could in March, that post-COVID year excepted. A lot of that is just bad luck and bad timing. 

Still, the last two years have seen some hard fades down the stretch. JMU beats a lot of people, and that was an awful matchup, but I expected a better effort from a trendy upset pick. The Badgers were never really in the game. 

Would it be wrong to say that Gard's teams lack the toughness of Bo's? I don't mean that as a harsh critique, and I prefer the Gard teams aesthetically and acknowledge they're better built for the modern game. Toughness is also subjective. I am just wondering aloud. I hope it proves a ridiculous question in time.

The officials let JMU absolutely get away with murder in that game, especially the first half.  If they'd called that thing straight, half of their guys would have fouled out by halftime.  That game was a joke.

[AKCheesehead]

What a nice shot by Tonje to close out the half!

[Jim French Stepstool]

So it looked a little ugly on the offensive end early, and once we got into a rhythm NU extended the defense which mucked things up briefly. But through it all UW is really looking to drive the ball, and lots of fouls & FTs are the payoff. Badger defense has gotten better as the half rolled on, too.

My biggest fear is Blackwell committing a 3rd foul early in the 2nd half. Save for that, things looking OK.

[Jim French Stepstool]

8 minutes ago, AKCheesehead said:

What a nice shot by Tonje to close out the half!

I like how he isn't forcing the issue w/bad shots, trying to get on the board. They defended him pretty well so far. Stay smart, probe when it's there.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

A nice, pretty easy win at the end of the day. Gives you a shot at a winnable game here tomorrow afternoon. 

In other news, Minnesota has fired Ben Johnson, which....surprises me. I know the program has been in the desert, but that seems like a systemic issue rather than a coaching one. I'm not sure anyone can make the Gophers truly relevant right now, but we'll see. Iowa may open as well. Depending on hires, might get a little tougher for the Badgers recruiting the TC suburbs. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

 

In other news, Minnesota has fired Ben Johnson, which....surprises me. I know the program has been in the desert, but that seems like a systemic issue rather than a coaching one. I'm not sure anyone can make the Gophers truly relevant right now, but we'll see. Iowa may open as well. Depending on hires, might get a little tougher for the Badgers recruiting the TC suburbs. 

Minny has had issues recruiting the TC area---city & suburbs--- for a long time. Among their more recent hires, the guy that had the closest thing to a 'local connection' was probably Johnson. I don't see UWs' success there drying up anytime soon (fingers crossed). None of the guys I hear rumored IMO would make a big difference in changing that. Brian Dutcher is a UM grad but has never coached in the area, and you could argue San Diego State would be a tough place to pry him away from. If I were them I'd go hard after Ben McCollum, but I don't see them getting him. I actually could see Tony Bennett working out there. But the conditions in college hoops that soured him are the same in the BIG as in the ACC, and if he didn't want to work at Virginia........

If/when Fran pulls out of IC, I'm sure they'd be quite interested in McCollum, too.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Minny has had issues recruiting the TC area---city & suburbs--- for a long time. Among their more recent hires, the guy that had the closest thing to a 'local connection' was probably Johnson. I don't see UWs' success there drying up anytime soon (fingers crossed). None of the guys I hear rumored IMO would make a big difference in changing that. Brian Dutcher is a UM grad but has never coached in the area, and you could argue San Diego State would be a tough place to pry him away from. If I were them I'd go hard after Ben McCollum, but I don't see them getting him. I actually could see Tony Bennett working out there. But the conditions in college hoops that soured him are the same in the BIG as in the ACC, and if he didn't want to work at Virginia........

If/when Fran pulls out of IC, I'm sure they'd be quite interested in McCollum, too.

Good points, all. Bennett is interesting. I'm surprised Hoiberg hasn't worked out that well at Nebraska--that seemed like a slam dunk hire to me at the time.

Minnesota has been a "sleeping giant" forever, it seems, to the point that maybe they just aren't a giant at all. I'm sure there are a bunch of factors, but being one of the few, true big-city schools in the league (even after adding the two LA schools) must be a challenge. The depth of care for Gopher men's basketball just doesn't run all that deep (four years in the TC taught me that), and maybe no coach can overcome that. McCollum will be a hot commodity. Maybe Medved too, who has Midwest connections with Drake and is a Minneapolis native.

Word I hear from some Iowa friends (and from living relatively nearby) is that Fran's exit is...complicated. Everyone seems to agree it's time for a change, but with Caitlin Clark dating a McCaffery, it's a little awkward.

Back to the main attraction, I'm so pumped for tomorrow. Weekday afternoon hoops. A big game. It'll really feel like March. Glad Klesmit and Winter got to ease back in a little.