Game 1: Packers "@" Eagles - Friday, Sept 6 7:15 PM - São Paulo, Brazil!

[OldSchoolSnapper]

8 hours ago, thebruce44 said:

I think you have made your opinions very clear at this point.

And my post was completely on topic, unlike this one.

[Brian]

8 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Both? It's the same thing. It's the degree of the knee injury.

I don't get why that is a good or bad thing? It seems like you're inferring Love is soft or something. 

No, I am not inferring that at all.  I'm inferring that you can't be a good NFL QB with a freshly injured leg that you can't even run on. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

5 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Rodgers came back, we got blown out by the Panthers and Rodgers sat the last game as we were eliminated and Huntley lost the next two and went 3-6 that year.

 

Didn't get blown out. Pretty miraculously competitive, had they won, would have likely kept Rodgers going and pushed for a WC. They were driving to tie, got to about the 20 when Allison picked up a first down and fumbled. Rodgers did throw 3 picks tho.

[kestrel79]

7 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

2018 was hard to watch, but not because of an injury. Rodgers was hurt in 2017 and Brett Hundley went 3-6 while he was out. 3-4 actually and had won two in a row(albeit vs two bad teams), then IIRC, Rodgers came back, we got blown out by the Panthers and Rodgers sat the last game as we were eliminated and Huntley lost the next two and went 3-6 that year.

2013 is when we had Tolzien, Seneca Wallace and then Matt Flynn was put on waivers and we claimed him. He wasn't the same with the shoulder injury, but he could put enough on it to keep us in it.

Rodgers came back week 17 vs Chicago, throw to Cobb with the assist from Kuhn on Peppers, got us in as NFCN Champs. 8-7-1.

Tolzien would move the ball up and down the field. Came in for Wallace, had nearly 300 yards, threw for 300 yards in his next start, but just threw a lot of picks when we got in the red zone. 

 

Wow that long ago. I remember that year with those 3 backups I went to a lot of games because everyone was selling their tickets. It's happening right now too at work. Everyone is selling their home opener tickets.

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, kestrel79 said:

Wow that long ago. I remember that year with those 3 backups I went to a lot of games because everyone was selling their tickets. It's happening right now too at work. Everyone is selling their home opener tickets.

That was the year my buddy and I went to the home playoff game against the 49ers because all the season ticket holders declined to buy the playoff tickets (looking like we wouldn't make the playoffs that year).  It was -4 at kickoff and we lost because we had zero OLBs that were healthy so Kaepernick ran all over us. But it still was a positive experience to see a playoff game live.

10 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I saw some pretty big positives. I thought aspects of the defense improved. The scheme, the play calling...everything but the DL(which I'll touch on and it's understandable why they didn't).

The tackling was bad, it's always bad early, they need to play some during pre-season, but that's a given.

But the positives, the DBs were pretty good, they were in position at least. Even on that dropped pick 6, they were competitive when they could stay on their feet. A lot of slipping by both teams, but Stokes looked really good, really healthy. 

Really bad call on the Ja holding that extended that last drive. Nixon, again drops an EASY pick 6(at least he read it). So definitely grading on a curve when I say the DBs looked good, but is there a team with a more talented 11 personnel than Philly? I guess SF with CMac, Kittle, Deebo, Ayiuk and whoever is their #3...but Philly is right there when healthy.

Barkley, Goedert, AJ Brown, DeVonta Smith, Jahan Dotson, then you have that OL...that really puts your D in a tough position. Do you play 3 LBs knowing they can run with that huge OL, Hurts and Barkley or do you play Nickel with all that speed and an elite pass-catching back? This is why you play Cooper more(I get it, he was injured, bringing him along slowly, but I think he'll force their hand like Clay did his rookie year).

Cooper flashed a few times. He was coming on a big blitz on 3rd down in the 3rd Quarter and slipped, but we had that side overloaded, but since he didn't get home, they hit Smith for a big ~30-yard gain when he shook Nixon.

DL just wore down. Looked like that DL we were hoping to see early and the the Eagles just wore them down.

Bullard looked really good.

McKinney looked good. 

Quay has a miss where Barkley hits him with a really sick jab step in the hole, but whoever the DT was(I forgot) was absolutely washed out of the play by Mekhi Becton, so that's a tough matchup for Quay, but outside of that, he played...solid. Not great, but solid. Set up the first pick by carrying the TE all the way down the seem. Having two LBers who can do that is huge. Hurts had to try and force the ball in there and McKinney made him pay. 

 

Another tweak they have to make is to put Valentine in as the #3 CB. We're REALLY lucky to have Stokes back and so far, looking like he's back to where he was as a rookie...I think. He's such a smooth athlete and was step-for-step with Smith on a few plays, just staying in phase, looked a bit better getting his head around. After two lost years, he's one of the X factors. I hope he makes the decision to re-sign, Franchise or Transition a hard one.

***I thought Jordan Morgan looked good in pass pro and he was one of the 3 guys I had them taking in the 1st rd, but...with hindsight being 20-20, I wish we'd have moved up for Mitchell. That guy is a stud. He reminds me of Ramsey. Physical, fast, cocky in the best way. I think he'll be a DPOY candidate. 

 

Anyway, regarding scheme, pretty vanilla, but a few nice wrinkles. In addition to the Cooper blitz, there were a couple others...the CB blitz by Nixon where we got home, forced an errant throw, and another where he threw the ball and they didn't call a grounding(IIRC that was a 2nd level blitz).

We were smart rushing Hurts. 

The negatives were obvious. Poor tackling, they were NOT rallying(I guarantee that will change week 2). The DL was solid early but got wore down when Philly had so many snaps. I understand Gary and Smith/LVN playing to a draw vs that OT combo, it's elite. But you need more from KC/Wyatt/Brooks/Wooden. 

I'd have to look at the snaps, but you need to rotate more or...something.

You're facing Jordan Mailata(6'9 365), Landon Dickerson (6'6 332), Cam Jurgens(6'3 303), Mekhi Becton(6'7 370😉) and then Lane Johnson (6'6 330)...a 235 LB RB back who when healthy is one of the most talented backs in the last decade or so and Jalen Hurts, one of the most physical runners.

 

So we wore down, but we were getting stops and playing really physical vs the run. We'll have another test vs what should be a pretty good line in Indy, but not on the same level.

I think in ~10 weeks we'll look at Philly as one of the best teams in the league, a dynamic offense, so long as Barkley is healthy, one of the best run games in the league up there with the Ravens. Especially if Barkley and Becton stay healthy. That's a OL that moves the LOS.

 

We NEED Edge Cooper to step up and have a big rookie year, but going back and watching the game again....I saw enough positives I still believe the Defense will be a top 5-10 defense...and it will create turnovers. 

 

So still an ugly game, and not getting it twisted, if I had to hand out grades, I'd give the secondary a C in coverage. It'd be D if this was at home or Philly, but the turf created problems.

DL-C-  Again, just wore out.
LB-D  without Cooper, B with him.

Tackling-DL was again, good early, but the back 7 was bad. Didn't rally, gave up early. If Hafley is any type of coach, that'll be a noticeable improvement in week 2. One play Quay pulls up thinking Bullard has the tackle and we give up another 8-9 yards. 

Offense, I'm not going to go too much into it, already a long post.
QB/WR/TE they were all out of sync. Dropped balls, Love missed easy throws we know he makes(Watson in the EZ was a big miss). 
RB-Not impressed with Jacobs, very impressed with Wilson. 
OL-Need Morgan to win the Job. 

Wicks was the most disappointing of the group. Watson is a man beater, not a complete WR. And that's fine, he doesn't need to be with the supplemental pieces, but the Eagles played the Fangio Defense(probably because their DC is Vic Fangio) so they kept things in front. 

We averaged 7.1 Yards a play, but didn't make the plays we were making last year to keep drives going. Should have been up 14-0 early and I think that changes the outlook of teh game, but poor play calling. You're on the 2, 2 1/2 yard line and you run at Jordan Davis and that front? Let Love do his thing there. 

Offense...defense put them in position with two big plays in plus territory and we scored 3 and 0 respectively. 

But still like the scheme and personnel. Next week, we NEED to stay on the field more and keep the Colts to ~60 plays, not the 78 the Eagles ran. 

Give Jacobs/Wilson a chance to establish the run, I'd imagine we'd have some different designed runs for Willis. Some RPOs with easy reads. Maybe Kraft/Musgraves releasing in the flat with Watson coming behind.

If he starts, I'll guess Willis has a line in the 12-25 170 yards, 10 carries just to keep the chains moving, 70 yards, Wilson and Jacobs each get 10+ carries and there's going to be a couple of shots at a big play and Willis is going to have to hit it. The Colts will just keep coming up, crowding the LOS. Willis just needs to use his legs and then the other thing he's good at, throwing the deep ball and limit the turnovers. If he hits just one big play for a  TD, I think they win it ugly. 23-13, something like that. 

**I'm also counting on the FG unit to perform...which is another leap of faith...one I'm less confident in, but I'm not changing my outlook on this team after that ONE ugly game vs IMO, the 2nd most talented team in the NFC and most talented East of Santa Clara(excluding GB, we'll have to see exactly where we stack up). 

1-1 heading into week 3 and Jordan Love returns! 11-6 still well within reach!

 

Oddly, I think we pretty well align with observations. 😂 Except...

• I thought Jacobs actually looked pretty good.  First half was terrible obviously, but looks like somethings clicked with both he and the OL the second half.  He ended up with more yards/rush than Barkley.
• Jaire was the main exception to the DB looking good.  He had his moments (the int was an excellent play), but he had a lot of blunders. He was chasing people quite often out there. 
• Everyone is playing their first full game, but the DL did look gassed out there.  As you highlighted, the Eagles OL is huge.  But we obviously weren't quite in game shape either. 

[BrewerFan]

10 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Oddly, I think we pretty well align with observations. 😂 Except...

• I thought Jacobs actually looked pretty good.  First half was terrible obviously, but looks like somethings clicked with both he and the OL the second half.  He ended up with more yards/rush than Barkley.
• Jaire was the main exception to the DB looking good.  He had his moments (the int was an excellent play), but he had a lot of blunders. He was chasing people quite often out there. 
• Everyone is playing their first full game, but the DL did look gassed out there.  As you highlighted, the Eagles OL is huge.  But we obviously weren't quite in game shape either. 

LOL...as I say to most people...yeah, we probably agree on most things...but there's not much to say then! 

 On Jacobs, I might be unfair there. I should move on from Aaron Jones, BUT...I do think he was so good in short yardage and near the endzone, those failed conversations stand out. Not that they were plays a normal RB picks up a 1st or a TD on, but it's really where Jones, IMO, shined. 

ON Jaire, I think it was two fold. One, he can play man, he doesn't need to play press all the time. It does you no good to try and get up on AJ Brown with a guy like Jaire. Let him play off and stay in Man as Brown was...tossing him around off the LOS and Ja was chasing at times. He was also slipping.

If that game was in GB or Det, any good turf, the DBs would get a very poor grade, but I'm grading on a curve.

 

We were gassed. I was most surprised by the snap counts. Slaton, he looked a little thinner and more agile than last year...which makes sense, not only is it a FA year, but a scheme change, but he played really well early(I think he jumped on the 4th down though) and then he was getting moved just way too easily. He played I thought roughly half the snaps. Clark played 74%. But they played him far too many snaps. 0 snaps for Colby Wooden for whatever reason. No reason to not rotate more, but didn't get off the field when they really needed to.

Gary/Clark/Slaton/Smith
Enagbare/Wyatt/Brooks/LVN
Wooden...anywhere in there!

 

That's where the game was lost though. OL vs DL. I hope that'll change as they play themselves into shape.  

[BrewerFan]

12 hours ago, kestrel79 said:

Wow that long ago. I remember that year with those 3 backups I went to a lot of games because everyone was selling their tickets. It's happening right now too at work. Everyone is selling their home opener tickets.

Yeah, it's a little depressing. When you said 2018 I thought that sounds about right...until I remembered that was the year Gute took over and I had to look it up. 

I'm selling my tickets. I've got a group chat, someone takes them every time, never had to go online or anything. I just can't make it...I've been told I'm unavailable that day to watch a 15-month-old (told, not asked...but it's alright)...my BIL is from Texas, so I'll watch with him and...make sure he knows what's what and we don't head down a very unfortunate road where...he becomes a Cowboys fan. 

[BrewerFan]

15 hours ago, Brian said:

No, I am not inferring that at all.  I'm inferring that you can't be a good NFL QB with a freshly injured leg that you can't even run on. 

I don't know...if there's any position you're able to play with a knee it'd be QB. Rodgers did it. Love is pretty good at getting the ball out. 

The risk of further injury is pretty minor. 

It's certainly not ideal, but MLF isn't even ruling Love out for this week(I don't think he plays this week though).

[Brian]

6 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

The risk of further injury is pretty minor. 

Yes if the OL protects him,

Packers will have to use the 49ers game plan of the 1990's with Montana and Young. The quick 5 -6 yard passes. 

[BrewerFan]

Just now, Brian said:

Yes if the OL protects him,

Packers will have to use the 49ers game plan of the 1990's with Montana and Young. The quick 5 -6 yard passes. 

Sure...or just the same ones they used when Rodgers had a banged-up knee or calf. 

Though...strange you'd use Young. I know Walsh ran the WCO, but he was a tank and one of the most mobile QBs ever. Montana by that point had a few back surgeries and was near the end...but Young? He was a guy they wanted to move to safety he was such a great athlete. 

[Brian]

2 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Sure...or just the same ones they used when Rodgers had a banged-up knee or calf. 

Though...strange you'd use Young. I know Walsh ran the WCO, but he was a tank and one of the most mobile QBs ever. Montana by that point had a few back surgeries and was near the end...but Young? He was a guy they wanted to move to safety he was such a great athlete. 

Your right about Young being much more mobile,  I just remember watching the 49'ers back then and I thought it was the most efficient offence I ever seen. Just constant 5 yard completions. 

[CheezWizHed]

9 hours ago, Brian said:

Your right about Young being much more mobile,  I just remember watching the 49'ers back then and I thought it was the most efficient offence I ever seen. Just constant 5 yard completions. 

Yes, you are correct.  Young had the ability to scramble, but was probably more Rodger-esque than a true running QB.  The 49er offense was very WCO - short, high efficiency passes with YACs.  It didn't matter what QB they had, that was what Walsh was. 

[BrewerFan]

9 hours ago, Brian said:

Your right about Young being much more mobile,  I just remember watching the 49'ers back then and I thought it was the most efficient offence I ever seen. Just constant 5 yard completions. 

I worded that poorly. not "strange" that you'd use Young, SF obviously made the WCO that Walsh came up with in Cincy when Ken Anderson hurt his shoulder and lost a lot of arm strength, and then...it was just a perfect fit with Montana, a great QB, but not a guy with a big arm...though they opened up a bit more for Young because...he did have a big arm. 

I get what you're saying. Ball out, on time.

I just don't think you have to go back that far. We've seen the Packers build those types of game plans around Aaron Rodgers very recently...

 

The ball has to come out very quickly if you're going to play a hobbled Love, I think we've seen a pretty good game plan under MLT.

[BrewerFan]

6 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Yes, you are correct.  Young had the ability to scramble, but was probably more Rodger-esque than a true running QB.  The 49er offense was very WCO - short, high efficiency passes with YACs.  It didn't matter what QB they had, that was what Walsh was. 

He wasn't a true running QB, but he could have been.

It's hard to get an accurate weight on a guy as they list Favre at 220 and he was at 245=250 for much of his career, but I remember Rice and Walsh both talking about Young, how he came into camp, he thought the job would be his, I think it was after a Montana injury(maybe '89). He was 240, ran a 4.41 40 and was just a monster.

They talked about moving him earlier in his career to FS because he was such a good athlete.

But no, as an actual QB, he could run and he did have some historic runs, but he was...well, like Rodgers. He's run when he had to. When he did it, he'd try and make guys miss or run more like a RB, but he clearly a pocket passer first and foremost.

 

Young is one of the most underrated players in my opinion. He's a top 10 all-time QB. He and Elway.

 

They'll keep moving down lists because people didn't watch them play and the eras were so different, his 3 year run from 92-94 was amazing. Hands down the best QB in the NFL. No question, 2X MVP, runner-up in between the 2 MVPs with his teammate Jerry Rice splitting the vote and Emmitt Smith STILL barely edging him out...and if you look at the numbers through today's lens, they were good. They weren't as good as Love's season last year when he struggled so badly the first half. 

 

 

Anyway, not a Steve Young appreciation thread, a dead...ugly Packers week 1 game thread...