Packers 2025 offseason

[JosephC]

55 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

I like this news wayyyyyy more than I should. Principally, however, imho this is the type of low cost upside ST/Rotational upside Boom/Bust player the Packers should target. 

Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

[adambr2]

Jack of all trades, master of none. It’s fine for a depth piece if it happens, just keep the money and expectations low.

[HarryDoyle]

On 4/13/2025 at 10:43 AM, OldSchoolSnapper said:

And? They lost in the Wild Card. They didn't elevate at all last year. They were 1-5 in their own division, in which not a single team won a playoff game. They were not a Super Bowl contender last season.

They were arguably a worse team this January than they were last January. I think it's time people re-evaluate what a playoff team really is when 44% of the league makes the playoffs. The NFL skirts close and closer to the NBA in that aspect every 5 years. They were bar none the worst team in the NFC playoffs by the time it started.

These lame-ass comparisons to the 70s and 80s are so dumb and played out. Go tell me who played QB in Green Bay from 1970-1990 and make an honest attempt at comparing it to present day. 

As far as signing Jacobs, yes, great player, but he replaced Aaron Jones who has been one of the most productive players in the team's history. I am not at all saying it wasn't a great move (they had to do it because Jones wasn't reliable and aging), but when you replace somebody who's already really good you're merely doing maintenance. They did the exact same thing this year on the OL and at CB. Those guys will probably be just fine, but they aren't moving the needle at all and they replaced outgoing FA who were either the same or slightly worse. Peddling those two guys off as 'big moves' is an absolute joke. 

"I am still curious, what was the move they should have made but it doesn't really feel like there is one beyond what wasn't available. Or Hendrickson? Surely ONE move couldn't completely change your entire attitude of the direction and mentality of this franchise, right?

If they were to end up with TJ Watt...that'd just be another move, but...still...complacent?"

Wut? Lol. They didn't do ANYTHING remotely close to this. And yes, this is exactly the kind of move I think a LOT of fans were expecting this offseason, especially after Gute's diatribe at the end of the season. SOMETHING, but we got a middling OL, a nickel corner and practice squad WR. "One" move can make a big difference, especially when you're close to contention. The line between very good and good is pretty damn thin in the NFL. There are a lot of losing teams that lose a handful of games by a score or so.

Honestly, can't say I am surprised though. The whole M.O. of this website is that average is fantastic and everyone should be smiling at all times with teams that make the playoffs. It's totally cool that the Packers have 4 MVP awards in the previous 14 seasons and not a single damn appearance in a Super Bowl. Just finished an entire season where they clearly showed they did not have the talent to compete with the upper echelon, and we're supposed to be excited because they are adding a handful of rooks in a couple weeks? Oh, ok.

At least the Brewers have the excuse of competing in a laughably unfair league. The rest of MLB should be embarrassed they manage to win 90 games. How the Packers seem to completely evade criticism from some people truly astonishes me - and for the record - yes - I would say that the majority of Packers fans are frustrated with this offseason and most of the last 15 years. 

You can be a consistently 'good' team that underachieves. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

Yeah, I don't know of one GM who ever thought "Gee, we're really close to being a Super Bowl contender. What move should I make to put us over the top? I know, I'll get an interior lineman."

Edge rusher is the second most important position in football. We were lacking one last season. Gute had an opportunity to address it and failed miserably, unless he drafts an elite pass rusher in the first round and not another "project with upside", which is a euphemism for jobber.

[LouisEly]

1 hour ago, HarryDoyle said:

Yeah, I don't know of one GM who ever thought "Gee, we're really close to being a Super Bowl contender. What move should I make to put us over the top? I know, I'll get an interior lineman."

I don't know how someone could have watched the playoff game against the Eagles and said that we didn't need an interior lineman.  Especially after losing an interior OL and moving the LG to a different position, forcing one of the two subs at LG in that game to start if they didn't get an interior lineman.

I sure as hell wouldn't have felt good about going into the season with Glover or Telfort penciled in as the starter at LG.

[HarryDoyle]

16 hours ago, LouisEly said:

I don't know how someone could have watched the playoff game against the Eagles and said that we didn't need an interior lineman.  Especially after losing an interior OL and moving the LG to a different position, forcing one of the two subs at LG in that game to start if they didn't get an interior lineman.

I sure as hell wouldn't have felt good about going into the season with Glover or Telfort penciled in as the starter at LG.

I didn't say we didn't need an interior lineman, and I'm not unhappy that we got one,but it only makes the team marginally better at a much more expensive cost. As was said before, this is not a needle moving signing, nor is the addition of Hobbs. Gute now says they are set at the pass rush. I want what he is smoking. Does he really think LVN is suddenly going to figure it out?

[LouisEly]

I think that they fired their DL coach for a reason.  There were rumblings during the season that the players weren't happy with him and what he was coaching.

Rashan Gary went from 5 sacks his 2nd year to 9.5 his third year.   LVN has the same number of sacks after his first two seasons as Rashan Gary did.

I also think that the draft is very deep with edge rushers, and that GMs will say anything before the draft to throw off the scent of who they are really targeting.

And I also think that interior pass rush is just as important and edge rushing.  Edge rushers get a lot of sacks cleaning up interior pressure that flushes the QB out of the pocket.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

2 hours ago, LouisEly said:

I don't know how someone could have watched the playoff game against the Eagles and said that we didn't need an interior lineman.  Especially after losing an interior OL and moving the LG to a different position, forcing one of the two subs at LG in that game to start if they didn't get an interior lineman.

I sure as hell wouldn't have felt good about going into the season with Glover or Telfort penciled in as the starter at LG.

They were hurt though. The same thing would happen next year if two of the OL got hurt. That stuff is always going to happen. I'm not even saying they didn't mildly upgrade the OL. 

I just don't think anyone was thinking after Gute's little pep talk, omg yes, I hpoe he gets Nate Hobbs!

[CheezWizHed]

19 hours ago, LouisEly said:

I also think that the draft is very deep with edge rushers, and that GMs will say anything before the draft to throw off the scent of who they are really targeting.

Yes, this.  I don't think you can believe much of what a GM says this time of year.  Or really ever... they aren't going to come out and say, "Boy, our DEs sucked last year."  Just team building 101.  Praise publicly, chastise privately. 

So we all agree that we need more pass rush.  So which 2025 FA Edge player would've told you... "We are all in!"?

[Team Canada]

4 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

That's the best you could do? Pathetic.

 

you've never been the brightest bulb on tree. 

 

Knock it off. Debate ideas without devolving into pure name calling. That's not how discussion here works.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

So in summary, the Browns are the standard to which the Packers can be compared. As long as we are outperforming the Browns, it's fine if we keep taking talented rosters with franchise QBs to the 2nd round of the playoffs at best. If you aren't just happy to be better than the Browns, that's "negativity." Not a single example of "negativity" in the last post makes a lick of sense as being negative, nor does it constitute "debating ideas."

[adambr2]

I understand the feelings of pessimism in regard to the upcoming season. We weren’t really close to a Super Bowl last year; honestly, we were further away than the previous year and we haven’t done anything to really improve upon last year.

Everyone says “wait for the draft” like everyone doesn’t get the draft and like Gute is some draft wizard that works magic and adds huge immediate difference makers in the draft every year.

Could we take the next step this season? Sure, but you’re talking about the new offensive line meshing, Love playing at a Pro Bowl level and LVN or another edge rusher breaking out.

A lot of things which would have to break right. Including good health.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

28 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

I understand the feelings of pessimism in regard to the upcoming season. We weren’t really close to a Super Bowl last year; honestly, we were further away than the previous year and we haven’t done anything to really improve upon last year.

Everyone says “wait for the draft” like everyone doesn’t get the draft and like Gute is some draft wizard that works magic and adds huge immediate difference makers in the draft every year.

Could we take the next step this season? Sure, but you’re talking about the new offensive line meshing, Love playing at a Pro Bowl level and LVN or another edge rusher breaking out.

A lot of things which would have to break right. Including good health.

They could finish 1st or 4th and neither would surprise me and I feel that way about the whole division. 

DET - Has to be the preseason favorite but you just never know and it is just hard to keep staying on top year after year. You would think some regression is coming or just Goff having a bad year or something. They were definitely the squad last year before getting decimated by injuries and you never know who comes back from that and to what level.

MIN - It seems likely they dip without stable QB play, but it's a talented team. If I had to pick somebody to finish last, it's them, but McCarthy's play could change that quickly.

GB - They don't look a lot better on paper so you are hoping for in-house development. They seem too good to really tank, but just don't strike me as a real contender, there is just a lack of playmakers on both sides of the ball.

CHI - They have to actually show it, but this is the first time in a long time I've felt like they're doing things right. Williams is going to be a good player. I didn't think the Bears were a terrible team last year despite that hideous losing streak. They were a competitive team and just needed a year to gel. They have made major upgrades and have talent at the skill positions. 1st might be a stretch but I think they're going to be a pain.

[JosephC]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

MIN - It seems likely they dip without stable QB play, but it's a talented team. If I had to pick somebody to finish last, it's them, but McCarthy's play could change that quickly.

 

Minnesota may have made a big error by not securing a better backup quarterback.  I can understand that there comes a time where you have to go with an unproven player as a starter, but you need to have a reasonable plan B in place.  Brett Rypien is not a good backup plan.  The numbers with Darnold heading into last season were not impressive (78.3 QB rating, 56 starts, 63 TD, 56 INT), but they were reasonable enough to figure as a realistic plan B.  Brett Rypien = 59.9 QB rating, 4 starts, 4 TD, 9 INT.

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

I understand the feelings of pessimism in regard to the upcoming season. We weren’t really close to a Super Bowl last year; honestly, we were further away than the previous year and we haven’t done anything to really improve upon last year.

I'm not sure how we weren't even close?  Certainly, we weren't one of the favorites, but easily top 10, probably top 5. 

Defense - Hafley's D took a big step up in 2024 from the previous year's defense - especially the second half of the year.  Yes, pass rush was and IS still a problem, but this D was SB worthy even without the pass rush.  This D was better than any Rodgers had for the last 5-8 years in GB. 

• I think there is a huge potential improvement for year two of Walker/Cooper as a LB tandem.  That could be special. 
• I think there will be some "general" improvement from the DL -  Gary had an off year, LVN can improve (but not expecting anything more than average from him), plus a new DL coach.  For all I railed on Clark last year, he improved the second half after his toe healed. Certainly, I'd expect a high draft pick or two here. 
• DBs - Returning the same cast of characters (Jaire barely played and had no impact when he did so I'm not counting him when comparing the two years) with Hobbes being added for competition to Valentine, so I don't see why they wouldn't repeat at least what they did.  Nixon is the oldest member at 27.  Williams and Bullard have opportunity to grow after a rookie year.  Williams taking a "second year step" and McKinney as starting safeties could be special. 

Offense - I think this is where we ended up falling short last year given expectations of 2023:

• Jacobs was a beast for us last year.  He, Wilson, and a healthy Lloyd should be as good - perhaps more flexible - than 2024.  Hard to saw we can improve on Jacob and Wilson's excellent years, but Lloyd add smore flexibility. 
• Love really took a step backwards from 2023, IMO.  Not sure what to expect from him this year, but generally he is the key.  We don't become SB favorites until he can play up to it.  He needs to play smart football and know when to go big or when to keep the chains moving.  
• Kraft made a big step up last year and will be counted on for this year.  Not sure what to expect from Musgrave. But we are pretty solid at TE with Kraft alone.
• Reed looked like he was going to take the next step and then fell off a cliff the second half of the year.  Watson was having a really nice year until he got injured.  Doubs injuries concern me for this year.  This is probably a position of weakness just from depth. 
• OL was solid.  I think the combo of Banks/Jenkins will be better than Jenkins/Myers. Walker, Tom, and Rhyan shouldn't have any reason to regress.  Morgan provides an opportunity to improve.  Again, depth is needed. 

If we are able to shore up the DE, DT, and WR positions in the draft  (double DL and double WR wouldn't surprise me) and have Love play smarter that pretty much closes the gap IMO with Detroit or Philadelphia in the league, IMO. 

 

[CheezWizHed]

5 minutes ago, JosephC said:

Minnesota may have made a big error by not securing a better backup quarterback.  I can understand that there comes a time where you have to go with an unproven player as a starter, but you need to have a reasonable plan B in place.  Brett Rypien is not a good backup plan.  The numbers with Darnold heading into last season were not impressive (78.3 QB rating, 56 starts, 63 TD, 56 INT), but they were reasonable enough to figure as a realistic plan B.  Brett Rypien = 59.9 QB rating, 4 starts, 4 TD, 9 INT.

There were a lot of rumblings about JJ in the preseason last year before he was injured too.  He didn't look good, was very slow on reads, wasn't picking up basic concepts of their offense.  He isn't a guarantee to step in and succeed for them either. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

You can rationalize that 2/3 of the league is "close." It's all relative. The Packers did not compete with anyone in the NFC playoff field. They got run out of the building, threw together some scores in garbage time to keep the final score looking more flattering than it was. They were not losing those games 40-6, sure, but anyone saying they were ever really in that playoff game is wearing green and gold goggles. Minnesota and Detroit controlled them completely, twice.

I am not sure how anyone classifies them as a Top 5 team last season. They were not even the Top 5 in the NFC at year's end. Even if you look at several games the Packers won, they squeaked by some crappy teams. That's not even a criticism, just the reality that mediocre isn't that far off from good. I'd say the Packers were in the top 10 and literally 10th, behind KC, PHI, DET, MN, LAR, WAS, KC, BUF, BAL...and outside of that if you want to include LAC/DEN/PIT...I don't think those three were better, but I do think a healthy TB team was.

It would take some wild mental gymnastics to say GB was top 5 ahead of any of KC/BUF/MN/DET/PHI.

[adambr2]

9 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

I'm not sure how we weren't even close?  Certainly, we weren't one of the favorites, but easily top 10, probably top 5. 

 

Probably top 5? Philadelphia, Kansas City, Washington, Buffalo, Baltimore, and Detroit were all indisputably better and closer, so we certainly weren’t top 5. We were in that “fringe” group with the Rams, Vikings, and Texans, Chargers, Broncos and Bucs. And have done really nothing to separate ourselves from that group.

Every team has a Marshawn Lloyd or Lukas Van Ness that *could* step up and make an impact. Yes, if Jordan Love plays really well we could contend for a Super Bowl. That’s exactly where we were at in the entire Aaron Rodgers era. Hoping for our QB to play like an MVP for us to contend.

The defense should be “pretty good”, but we still don’t have the pass rush to be a team carried by our defense.
 

[adambr2]

It occurred to me that maybe you meant top 5-10 in the conference, but if so, referring to a top 5-10 team in a 16 team conference as a “Super Bowl contender” is awfully generous.

[Fear The Chorizo]

With the exception being the Chiefs, who have the best quarterback of this generation playing for one of the best coaches ever that leads what is probably considered the best coaching staff in the league, Being among the top 5-10 teams in the NFL consistently is about all you can ask for a GM to give his organization the best shot at winning a Super Bowl.  The difference between last season's roster being a playoff participant and it going on a run towards a title is primarily Love taking the next step in his development.  The fact the past two seasons led to Packer playoff berths while unraveling the accumulated salary cap purgatory the last few years of the Rodgers era put them in speaks to Gute doing a very good job at replenishing the roster with talent without having to crater their onfield results.

 I do think the Packers need to do a better job in general at landing instant impact talent at key positions in today's NFL (DL/OLB, WR) in the 1st round instead of having to wait on 2-3 year development of athletic freaks or guys coming off injuries who aren't great NFL players yet.  The one criticism I have for Gute is to make better 1st round draft picks that instantly enter the building as a starter - regardless of the organization's veteran depth chart at their position.

This Packer defense is better than what they consistently ran out through most of Rodgers' Packer tenure - but they don't have the horses on the line right now for them to take over games.  It's on Love to take that next step for the offense, which now has plenty in the backfield and upfront on the line to run the ball.  The Packers have got to get more pass rush upfront, and that has to mean new faces in the DL and OLB rooms via the draft along with LVN showing up and Gary rebounding from a disappointing 2024 season.

 

[JosephC]

Might as well bring up the Jalen Ramsey subject.  Have to believe this has all come up because he wants a new deal, and this is coming off a new deal he got less than 1 year ago.  He has already been traded twice and it looks like the third time is coming in the very near future.  Seems like one of those guys who is always unhappy.  That doesn't stop the teams he's with from winning, the Rams had a great run with him on board.  The guy can still play.  Media reports are that his play fell off last year, but the stat sheet still looks pretty good.

Last time he was traded was for a 3rd round pick and TE-Hunter Long, who at the time was a 2 year backup and has added on another 2 years as a backup since the trade (37 games played, 8 catches).  Obviously the Dolphins will start by asking for the moon.  They have an extra fourth, an extra fifth, no sixth, and three 7th...so they already are starting with 10 picks.  My guess is that the final price will be the same as last time, a 3rd round pick and a cheap player (this one will probably have more upside than the last one).  Jaire Alexander is not a possibility IMO, as Alexander really doesn't fit into the Dolphins cap situation.

No doubt Ramsey would likely push for a deal pretty similar to the one that Jaycee Horn got.  Roughly speaking, 4 years, 100 million with cap numbers of 23 million, 22.7 million, 28.7 million, 30.7 million.

I'm not for it because I've always had the impression of Ramsey being a butthead, but I think the Packers could do this and it would definitely qualify as a big splash move for Gutekunst that doesn't involve a 1st or 2nd round pick.

[LouisEly]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

They got run out of the building, threw together some scores in garbage time to keep the final score looking more flattering than it was.

The only team that got "run out of the building" was the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, so I don't see how anyone can say that Buffalo - who lost to the Chiefs - and Baltimore - who lost to Buffalo - are better than the Packers.  The Packers played the Eagles a helluva lot closer than the Chiefs did.

And last I checked, the 4th quarter counts just as much as the first three quarters.  And last I checked, the Eagles got the last two scores in that playoff game, not the Packers in "garbage time".

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

Probably top 5? Philadelphia, Kansas City, Washington, Buffalo, Baltimore, and Detroit were all indisputably better and closer, so we certainly weren’t top 5. We were in that “fringe” group with the Rams, Vikings, and Texans, Chargers, Broncos and Bucs. And have done really nothing to separate ourselves from that group.

Top five was too generous. I didn't count teams in my head.  Personally, I'd put:

Philly, KC, Buffalo, Baltimore, and Detroit at the top 5. 

The Vikings last year were better than the Packers (but not this year) and I can buy the Rams being even with us.  But I'd put the Pack ahead of the rest you listed. 

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

Every team has a Marshawn Lloyd or Lukas Van Ness that *could* step up and make an impact.
 

You'll note that I put very little weight into that for team improvements in my overall review.

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

Yes, if Jordan Love plays really well we could contend for a Super Bowl. That’s exactly where we were at in the entire Aaron Rodgers era. Hoping for our QB to play like an MVP for us to contend.

90+% of SBs are won with a QB playing at an MVP (or close) level.  It is the exception to win with a defense driven team.  The league is built around a QB and if you get one that is "merely" very good...it is hard to win. Kansas City last year was almost down to barebones on playmakers (certainly WRs) and Mahomes still got them to the SB. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

5 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

The only team that got "run out of the building" was the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, so I don't see how anyone can say that Buffalo - who lost to the Chiefs - and Baltimore - who lost to Buffalo - are better than the Packers.  The Packers played the Eagles a helluva lot closer than the Chiefs did.

And last I checked, the 4th quarter counts just as much as the first three quarters.  And last I checked, the Eagles got the last two scores in that playoff game, not the Packers in "garbage time".

 

My garbage time comment was more so referring to the Lions and more so the Vikings, when the Packers got obliterated twice and cobbled together some crap way too late to make the final score look close.

I'll stand by what I said though - the Packers were never a threat in that playoff game. They didn't once have the ball with a chance to take the lead outside of the opening possession which they didn't even get because they dropped the kickoff. Philly controlled the pace completely and extended the lead to two scores every time they had to. The Packers did NOTHING offensively until that Jacobs TD. We don't need to dive deep to how awful Love was either.

And last I checked, the 4th quarter counts just as much as the first three quarters. 

It really doesn't. You can find 5 games a week where there's a "comeback" at the end of the game because defenses start conceding chunk plays to let the clock run. But completing the comeback almost always requires an onside kick or a string of luck that basically never happens.

[CheezWizHed]

9 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

We don't need to dive deep to how awful Love was either.

This is however our biggest problem and holdback.  Love must be better if we want to win a SB. 

Getting a big FA WR would help him, but which one did people think would really help?  I was all in on Higgens, but we were blocked.  The next best WR is so well thought of that he is still available. So instead they fixed a hole in the OL with Myers leaving. 

Getting a good DE would've helped the pass rush, but after Mack resigned (before FA started) everyone that was left big money being thrown at mediocre players. 

What FA signing would've actually made people feel like we were "going for it"? Honestly, it looked like a bad year for what we needed in FA. 

Maybe we should sign Rodgers?

[JosephC]

2026 Super Bowl odds

1 - Eagles +650

2 - Ravens +700

3 - Chiefs +750

3 - Bills +750

5 - Lions +900

6 - Commanders +1600

7 - 49ers +1800

7 - Bengals +1800

9 - Packers +2200

9 - Rams +2200

Packers regular season wins over/under is 9.5.  Ravens, Bills, Lions, Chiefs, Eagles, 49ers all above that.  There are 8 teams at 6.5, which puts the Packers in the #7 to #14 range.

Projecting them as the 9th/10th best team at this time seems like a pretty fair estimate.

Above odds come from betus.com