Pitching staff xFIP

[TerraceReserved]

FIP itself is short for Fielding Independent Pitching, and it uses a pitchers walk, strikeout, and HR rates and applies an average hit rate and creates a number on the scale of ERA that shows how well they pitched with no luck involved. xFIP I believe adjusts for the pitchers HR/FB ratio.

[TerraceReserved]

FIP itself is short for Fielding Independent Pitching, and it uses a pitchers walk, strikeout, and HR rates and applies an average hit rate and creates a number on the scale of ERA that shows how well they pitched with no luck involved. xFIP I believe adjusts for the pitchers HR/FB ratio.

[logan82]

Looks like pitchers who relly on ground balls would always have a high FIP.

[logan82]

Looks like pitchers who relly on ground balls would always have a high FIP.

[logan82]

Looks like pitchers who relly on ground balls would always have a high FIP.

[Fatter than Joey]

So the conclusion could be that our defense didn't effect our pitching as much as we had at first thought?

 

No -- Our defense hurts our pitching compared to the Cubs.

 

Zambrano - 4.65

 

Zambrano seemed to either suck or was brilliant.

 

Basically FIP is a stat where you try to only incorporate stats the pitchers control, which would be HR, BB, HBP, K -- basically the 8 guys behind the pitcher have nothing to do with HR, BB, HBP or K. You then take HR+HBPK multiply each by a factor and then divide it by IP, to give you an ERA type stat in format.

 

Where defense comes into play, is in the IP variable -- If Braun/Fielder make less plays or more errors than Ramirez/Lee a pitcher is going to pitch less innings. Basically a bad defense is going to get less IP out of 100 pitches than a good defense will.

[Fatter than Joey]

So the conclusion could be that our defense didn't effect our pitching as much as we had at first thought?

 

No -- Our defense hurts our pitching compared to the Cubs.

 

Zambrano - 4.65

 

Zambrano seemed to either suck or was brilliant.

 

Basically FIP is a stat where you try to only incorporate stats the pitchers control, which would be HR, BB, HBP, K -- basically the 8 guys behind the pitcher have nothing to do with HR, BB, HBP or K. You then take HR+HBPK multiply each by a factor and then divide it by IP, to give you an ERA type stat in format.

 

Where defense comes into play, is in the IP variable -- If Braun/Fielder make less plays or more errors than Ramirez/Lee a pitcher is going to pitch less innings. Basically a bad defense is going to get less IP out of 100 pitches than a good defense will.

[Fatter than Joey]

So the conclusion could be that our defense didn't effect our pitching as much as we had at first thought?

 

No -- Our defense hurts our pitching compared to the Cubs.

 

Zambrano - 4.65

 

Zambrano seemed to either suck or was brilliant.

 

Basically FIP is a stat where you try to only incorporate stats the pitchers control, which would be HR, BB, HBP, K -- basically the 8 guys behind the pitcher have nothing to do with HR, BB, HBP or K. You then take HR+HBPK multiply each by a factor and then divide it by IP, to give you an ERA type stat in format.

 

Where defense comes into play, is in the IP variable -- If Braun/Fielder make less plays or more errors than Ramirez/Lee a pitcher is going to pitch less innings. Basically a bad defense is going to get less IP out of 100 pitches than a good defense will.

[Ennder]

Yeah I prefer qERA a lot more which includes things like GB% but I couldn't find a listing for it so couldn't use it.

[Ennder]

Yeah I prefer qERA a lot more which includes things like GB% but I couldn't find a listing for it so couldn't use it.

[Ennder]

Yeah I prefer qERA a lot more which includes things like GB% but I couldn't find a listing for it so couldn't use it.

[rluzinski]

Looks like pitchers who relly on ground balls would always have a high FIP.

 

When you say, "Rely on groundballs", you mean, "strikes no one out", he's going to be in trouble, sure. A strikeout is an out virtually 100% of the time. Even a weak groundball is converted into an out less often. In actuality, there are many good groundball pitchers out there who have excellant FIPs. Maybe, they have a mediocre K rates but they supress HRs and have good command and low walk rates.

[rluzinski]

Looks like pitchers who relly on ground balls would always have a high FIP.

 

When you say, "Rely on groundballs", you mean, "strikes no one out", he's going to be in trouble, sure. A strikeout is an out virtually 100% of the time. Even a weak groundball is converted into an out less often. In actuality, there are many good groundball pitchers out there who have excellant FIPs. Maybe, they have a mediocre K rates but they supress HRs and have good command and low walk rates.

[rluzinski]

Looks like pitchers who relly on ground balls would always have a high FIP.

 

When you say, "Rely on groundballs", you mean, "strikes no one out", he's going to be in trouble, sure. A strikeout is an out virtually 100% of the time. Even a weak groundball is converted into an out less often. In actuality, there are many good groundball pitchers out there who have excellant FIPs. Maybe, they have a mediocre K rates but they supress HRs and have good command and low walk rates.

[Patrick425]

Yeah, I don't really get Fip at all. Lets bacically just look at Walks, HRs, and K's...huh? Hate to sound like an old curmudgeon (by the way, I do understand and agree that OBP is a better measure than average, so I'm not completely stuck in the past.). However, whats wrong with ERA? If a pitcher gets a guy to hit an easy ground ball to the shortstop, isn't it expected that a major league SS is supposed to make the play? How does that have anything to do with luck? Gee, he was lucky that the professional ballplayer didn't botch the play that he is paid handsomely to make. Isn't that what the E in ERA is all about?

[Patrick425]

Yeah, I don't really get Fip at all. Lets bacically just look at Walks, HRs, and K's...huh? Hate to sound like an old curmudgeon (by the way, I do understand and agree that OBP is a better measure than average, so I'm not completely stuck in the past.). However, whats wrong with ERA? If a pitcher gets a guy to hit an easy ground ball to the shortstop, isn't it expected that a major league SS is supposed to make the play? How does that have anything to do with luck? Gee, he was lucky that the professional ballplayer didn't botch the play that he is paid handsomely to make. Isn't that what the E in ERA is all about?

[Patrick425]

Yeah, I don't really get Fip at all. Lets bacically just look at Walks, HRs, and K's...huh? Hate to sound like an old curmudgeon (by the way, I do understand and agree that OBP is a better measure than average, so I'm not completely stuck in the past.). However, whats wrong with ERA? If a pitcher gets a guy to hit an easy ground ball to the shortstop, isn't it expected that a major league SS is supposed to make the play? How does that have anything to do with luck? Gee, he was lucky that the professional ballplayer didn't botch the play that he is paid handsomely to make. Isn't that what the E in ERA is all about?

[logan82]

I am just trying to understand FIP a little better even though i doubt I will use it much. I guess I should have said higher FIP, but then again like you said a pitcher with low K's and GB tendancies would benefit from fewer HRs in general.

[logan82]

I am just trying to understand FIP a little better even though i doubt I will use it much. I guess I should have said higher FIP, but then again like you said a pitcher with low K's and GB tendancies would benefit from fewer HRs in general.

[logan82]

I am just trying to understand FIP a little better even though i doubt I will use it much. I guess I should have said higher FIP, but then again like you said a pitcher with low K's and GB tendancies would benefit from fewer HRs in general.

[TooLiveBrew]

However, whats wrong with ERA? If a pitcher gets a guy to hit an easy ground ball to the shortstop, isn't it expected that a major league SS is supposed to make the play? How does that have anything to do with luck? Gee, he was lucky that the professional ballplayer didn't botch the play that he is paid handsomely to make. Isn't that what the E in ERA is all about?

 

Yea, except that many (a majority?) of misplays by fielders aren't registered as errors. Capuano is a prime example of this in 2007. Since Weeks & Braun missed so many 'routine' balls, yet weren't charged with errors, the burden then falls to the pitcher - even though an average fielder would turn most of those balls into outs. You've made light of the fielding situation, but in actuality, what you've described is precisely why FIP/xFIP has value.

 

In other words, why punish a pitcher for something that's totally out of his control? That's what ERA does to pitchers like Cappy with the 2007 Crew defense behind him. And it's also why all the 'OMGz he totalee lozt 17 gmz in a row!' talk from 2007 was comprised of plenty of hot air.

[TooLiveBrew]

However, whats wrong with ERA? If a pitcher gets a guy to hit an easy ground ball to the shortstop, isn't it expected that a major league SS is supposed to make the play? How does that have anything to do with luck? Gee, he was lucky that the professional ballplayer didn't botch the play that he is paid handsomely to make. Isn't that what the E in ERA is all about?

 

Yea, except that many (a majority?) of misplays by fielders aren't registered as errors. Capuano is a prime example of this in 2007. Since Weeks & Braun missed so many 'routine' balls, yet weren't charged with errors, the burden then falls to the pitcher - even though an average fielder would turn most of those balls into outs. You've made light of the fielding situation, but in actuality, what you've described is precisely why FIP/xFIP has value.

 

In other words, why punish a pitcher for something that's totally out of his control? That's what ERA does to pitchers like Cappy with the 2007 Crew defense behind him. And it's also why all the 'OMGz he totalee lozt 17 gmz in a row!' talk from 2007 was comprised of plenty of hot air.

[TooLiveBrew]

However, whats wrong with ERA? If a pitcher gets a guy to hit an easy ground ball to the shortstop, isn't it expected that a major league SS is supposed to make the play? How does that have anything to do with luck? Gee, he was lucky that the professional ballplayer didn't botch the play that he is paid handsomely to make. Isn't that what the E in ERA is all about?

 

Yea, except that many (a majority?) of misplays by fielders aren't registered as errors. Capuano is a prime example of this in 2007. Since Weeks & Braun missed so many 'routine' balls, yet weren't charged with errors, the burden then falls to the pitcher - even though an average fielder would turn most of those balls into outs. You've made light of the fielding situation, but in actuality, what you've described is precisely why FIP/xFIP has value.

 

In other words, why punish a pitcher for something that's totally out of his control? That's what ERA does to pitchers like Cappy with the 2007 Crew defense behind him. And it's also why all the 'OMGz he totalee lozt 17 gmz in a row!' talk from 2007 was comprised of plenty of hot air.

[mothershipconnection]

The issue is that defense can't be broken down cleanly into "error" and "non-error". There are so many other plays that don't show up, as we can't categorize phenomenal play, pretty darn good, solid, fair, weak, pretty crappy, and error. Ozzie Smith made a lot of plays that other guys never would, but it didn't really show up in their numbers since Ozzie didn't get extra credit and the other player didn't get an error for not making a play only a freak could make.

[mothershipconnection]

The issue is that defense can't be broken down cleanly into "error" and "non-error". There are so many other plays that don't show up, as we can't categorize phenomenal play, pretty darn good, solid, fair, weak, pretty crappy, and error. Ozzie Smith made a lot of plays that other guys never would, but it didn't really show up in their numbers since Ozzie didn't get extra credit and the other player didn't get an error for not making a play only a freak could make.