TJseven7

Only 2.5 sure seems like he would have been a good fit. Gotta see where guys like Holt and Flores end up price wise but getting him for even 1 mil less than Sogard would have made sense. Especially since he's handled 3b pretty well the past 2 years. Castro I can easily ignore at 6/2. This one seems like a quality cheap filler piece so I'm temporarily disappointed.

The Brewers have probably kicked the tires on every single 3b at this point. I wonder how loose pursuing is being used. He's a solid player. MKE doesn't pay market for solid.

Any word on this PTBNL or did I miss it?

I'm also flirting with the idea of Aaron Sanchez (absolutely not as a starter) and Taijuan Walker but these 3 are at the top of my list too. 8mil really isn't that steep for him. 3 years is a haul. I hope this RP market gets friendly and DS jumps in. I'm pretty sure if the RP market is tame (and it's seemed to be quieter than the SP market) MKE can pull in 4 RP types for around 15-18 mil and really solidify the pen. Super shuttle in AAA to start the year as well. Wonder what this means for Hudson, not that I want him but I thought the Nats wanted to keep him. Did he over demand and the Nats went with an upgrade over caving to his demands?

I think we are going far beyond what is needed in these talks about 3b. C is downgraded from Grandal to Narvaez. Offensively though the team loses 30 points of OBP. Otherwise they are very similar. 1b Thames 247/346/851 and Aguilar 225/320/694 vs Braun 285/343/849 and Smoak 202/347/783(RHP) isn't that a small upgrade? 2b Hiura is better than Moose SS Urias has to be better than Arica if not its the same. LF Yelich same CF Cain hopefully better RF Garcia 10 obp and 40 slugging points behind Braun but many are hoping the power picks up in MKE. Let's not talk about the 392 AB from Perez Saladino and Spangs So 3b has to basically replace Hiura's half year and Shaw. Hiura hit .303 but add Shaw's numbers and its .240 OBP is roughly 330 Slugging about 440 OPS around 770 Offense is pretty close to last year if we can replace 240/330/770 at 3b. 1b better SS better Cain you'd hope is better. Upside from Garcia and not a ton of loss between Narvaez and Grandal with the bat. Fair? Ok Gyorko was bad in 2019. No doubt. (also I'm not advocating for Gyorko but using him to point out how easily this is accomplished) Career 267/341/796 vs LHP Sogard in 2017 and 2019 which we have to hope are the new norm. Roughly 280/370/790 vs RHP You could assume you can platoon that into 260/340/780 which is better than 240/330/770 that we got from Hiura and Shaw last year. I get the urge to make the offense the best it possibly can be, but do you really think 3b is that massive of a need? Look at the numbers of the situation. Hiura replaces Moose and then some. 3b replaces Hiura/Shaw pretty easy. The offense loses OBP at C and gains it at 1b and hopefully CF. Garcia has his work cut out for him to match Braun but Urias at SS could take the edge off that. And those pesky 392 AB from SpangPerezadino haven't even been mentioned. I don't think we NEED a big addition at 3b. I think a lot of people are overstating that because they WANT a big addition at 3b.

Don't cherry pick. You put his starts in the 2015 numbers to grease your incorrect stance. OPS allowed went from 738 to 467 K/9 improved .8 Whip went from 1.439 to .873 K/BB went from 1.14 to 2.71 He had a 2.39 ERA as a reliever and I'd assume the FIP echoed it due to those other numbers. He's killed it out of the pen. Even when he pitched decently as a starter, his pen numbers were dramatically better. Why do you take a chance? You take a chance on 2-3 guys like that so you can push the guys with options into AAA. That way you have 8 options for 4 spots. Hit on 3 and that's how you generate value out of thin air. When teams continue to use a player wrong and kill his value you scoop him up and show them how to use him properly. Then you compare 2020 to 2019 and ignore the Shaw Saladino Perez Spangs Aguilar black holes that the 2020 team doesn't have? Catcher is going to be a legitimate downgrade but most of that is defensively. Look at Narvaez numbers. 1b from Thames Aguilar to Braun Smoak is an upgrade with how bad Aguilar was 2b Moose to Hiura for a full year is a push if not pro Hiura SS Arcia was garbage offensively. Urias likely can't be worse 3b Shaw and half a year of Hiura is basically these numbers. That's not as hard to match with Sogard and Gyorko as you think when you realize how bad Shaw was The infield is deeper as a whole with 1 more solid platoon guy at 3b, not Healy. OF Yelich same Braun to Garica about the same Cain was bad. Cain should be better. You downgrade catcher a solid amount, again mostly defense. You upgrade 1b SS and push everything else with a nobody platoon mate to Sogard at 3b. Multiple bats who played a good number of outings for MKE last year completely flamed out. Unless you think the guys on the roster are going to plummet into darkness like those guys did this offense is roughly the same as it was 2020 because while the top isn't as strong but the bottom isn't completely worthless. If you want to make a complaint about the defense they play, go right ahead. Fact of the matter is that the offense last year was a splurge to protect the team against the young arms we leaned on early in the season imploding. The team was garbage despite that strong offense because the pitching was horrific until Lyles Houser Pom Suter stabilized the team. This is exactly why you add a guy like Sanchez. Add 3-4 arms and when things don't work out you still have extra relievers pushed into AAA to break open in case of emergency. If Sanchez is great as a reliever you completely steal him. If he sucks as a reliever you move on from him and go to another option. Every option that you have improves the chances of a staff that can gain stability. The pitching staff wasn't exactly deep last year because they led with the kids. The team got punished for that and was chasing its tail all the way up until the trade deadline. Pulling in 3-4 pen arms allows the team to do the reverse and its much easier to stash extra options when you lead with vets instead of guys who have options. It helps prevent 4 months of cluster mess baseball. Cishek has been paid 6.5 mil and hasn't had an ERA north of 3 since 2015. You don't think that's a good use of this teams funds? You think that's too expensive when the rest of the team is being done inexpensively. He comes in at 6/1 you take that, plug that into the set up role and smile as Hader gets to be the fireman again. You go with Sanchez Cishek McHugh along with Hader Peralta and Suter. If they get Knebel back in closer form that pen could be absolutely filthy. You could have 5 guys sub 3 ERA. That also leaves an AAA shuttle stocked to the brim. Cishek 6/1 McHugh 5/2 (medicals) Flores 4/1 (medicals) Walker 4/1 (medicals) and Sanchez 3/2 should do the trick for 18 mil. Guerra Freitas Rodriguez and TWilliams can go off the 40 and away we go.

Better than most anything else in this thread. Hader is also at about 4.6 mil estimated this year. He won't likely hit the 9 million dollar price tag Miller had in 2016 until arby 3 or 4.

I'm really warming up to the idea of adding Aaron Sanchez as a reliever. He could get his FB velo back up near 95-97, like it was when it worked. He was truly an electric reliever before they forced him into a starters role that worked on the short term but then imploded. Just like Pom he was a great pitcher who fell off a cliff as a starter. And Harris is gone at 8/3. Should put Cishek right back in that 6/2 range correct?

C was Pina and Vogt. I believe they are far better there offensively than in 2018. 2b isn't even a discussion. SS should be better. Yelich is Yelich Garcia and Braun 2018 I see similar 1b in 2018 was Thames and Aguilar raking. I believe Braun and Smoak can match that. 3b was Shaw and Moose doing work. However, if that's Hiura and 3b can be what the 2b was in 2018 we are still better than we were in 2018. When you realize they've pushed 3b production to 2b you realize 3b production isn't a big deal. In an ideal world you'd want both to rake, but that's easier said than done. Pending what Cain can do this offense can still be every bit as good as it was in 2018, even with a weak 3b platoon. If it can match what 2b did in 2018 which isn't hard to do at all, Cain can be considerably worse than 2018 and the offense can be as good. Cishek is a SU man and perfect for the role. Sanchez I see as a pen piece. He's been awful as a starter lately. He was lights out early in his career out of the pen, even better than he was as a starter. I believe he has a shot of pulling a Pom. He could be an example of what happens when you try to make a Josh Hader a starter. His velo has dropped from 97 as a reliever to 95 and the last few years its dropped to 94 and 93. The velo should play up out of the pen. He can be FB/CB with a change option. Keeping him as a starter would be insanity. As a pen piece you might find a gem. Thanks again for chiming in on how I'm wrong without looking at numbers deeper than the surface or adding up production before you start your spiel.

There are a few issues with the roster as its currently constructed. 5 starting pitchers. Only 5. Anderson has an injury history and I still believe Houser is a reliever. Woodruff Lauer Linblom are the guys you can "count on." After that it's Suter, Peralta and Burnes. Very few other pitchers are close enough to jump in. That won't work unless you bolster the pen a great deal. MKE has a lot of interesting pen options who have options and all of them need to be buried in AAA to start the season. It's fine to think Suter or Peralta can bump into the rotation but then they need to be replaced in the pen. That was a problem last year. Almost as big of a problem as the starting rotation was. They need 3-4 more arms. That way they can sort in the right starters and have their pick of the litter for the pen from the AAA depth. The team has won a great deal of games in the last 2 years and a big part of that has been the ability to lock down the end of the game when leading. Hader Jeffress Knebel. Hader Pom Suter/Guerra. You can not take Hader out of that and expect to win. Especially since right now MKE has Suter and only Suter from either of those 2 lists if you take away Hader. They need stability in the pitching staff, it can not be considered "done" yet and Hader can not be pulled out to solve a problem that is a small addition away from being a neutral position. Even if the get is a sizable upgrade. They need to avoid black holes because being a bit above average across the board will be enough when Yelich Hader Woodruff and Hiura can be big positives. Locking down the 8th and 9th without demanding it from Hader would go a long long way towards success. Sign Cishek to be the SU man, he is the Jeffress. Sign McHugh to close assuming he is healthy. Another option would be Aaron Sanchez if no starting opportunities arise for him. If/When Knebel comes back McHugh/Sanchez slots in lower and slots in well. Taijuan Walker would be a perfect option to put into the pen with lottery ticket upside as a SP option. Again assuming he is healthy. That's 3. That's a lot of stability added to the pen. Kintzler and Rodon look like under appreciated options as well. The farm could send a number of guys into the pen and rotation in the next 2 years. They need to find guys on 1 year deals who can protect against that not happening in 2020. 3b Gyorko platoons fine with Sogard. I'd prefer Flores if his knees check out. It's really that simple and 3b is a minor need when you have a 2b who can hit like Hiura, a positive bat platoon at C, and a loaded OF. There are 2 places where spending needs to be done. 3b seems to be held up due to the Donaldson domino. The RP market has been fairly slow compared to the starting pitcher market. Hopefully DS is waiting on his scrap 3b to fall through the cracks and waiting to see which RPs he can buy low on 1 year deals. Nothing needs to break the bank. They need 5 bodies and you can probably get those 5 for 25 mil combined, if not less.

I don't think calling Burnes a 3-5 starter is fair. There are a lot of guys who could profile into that slot with Houser and Lauer being that type already in the majors. Woodruff is a 1, while not ACE TOR type he's a legitimate 1 and I don't see why Burnes can't end up at a much similar level. His stuff is filthy and 2018 and 2019 were so vastly different that it makes you wonder. FB control and mental "issues" seemed to hijack him. If he can get past that he's a heck of a pitcher. If Woodruff Burnes and Ashby work out that's 1-2-2 type stuff and then there are a lot of other guys like Houser Lauer Brown Supak File Bettinger Francis before you get to the younger guys who are mostly college advanced. We all know how fast MKE is willing to move those guys. We could be looking at pulling up Small in 2021 mid season. There are a lot of options and almost too many 3-5 starter arms to keep in that role. It's a very deep system and again I don't get why there is zero love for the brewers farm. It's like they undervalue quality and overvalue lottery tickets.

Well then we are hosed. If Claudio is a lock Wahl TWilliams and Feyereisen makes 8. There's no room and you've pushed a number of our stash-able options into a position of need. Sink or swim without depth, so the team is toast. Signing a few Burch's will make this a lost year. You say there's a lot of work to do after you basically say it's all set. Thanks for your opinion on how I'm wrong and then saying the opposite because you didn't count when you said I was wrong.

Gave up a pick to sign Grandal so it's not far fetched.

Well last year and in waivers he's added Feyereisen and Yardley to add to Claudio Devin Wahl who have options. I think Black Guerra Faria and TWilliams leave 1 man standing when all is said and done and I expect it to be Black. I don't see this as a DS typical pen but the only reason for that is that TWilliams and Guerra aged out. Faria/Black was a 2 man coin flip. The AAA pen could be loaded with a lot of guys who have options. Feyereisen Yardley Wahl Devin Perdomo Claudio who are on the 40. Add Barker who isn't on the 40 man. A few more who are further down the farm. Knebel on the IL Hader Peralta Suter Black Clearly he still has some work to do or the pens going to have TWilliams (7th), Faria (garbage long 8), Devin (6th) and Claudio (5th). This is why I want Cishek, McHugh and TWalker. No one wants to limp into the regular season like that. Truly, the entire roster is set right now except 3b and RP.

I was bummed to see Hill landed elsewhere. I was ticked when I saw it was for only 3 mil. Seeing that it's actually 9.5 mil with an age implosion fail safe at 3 mil, I'm a lot calmer. Smart deal, I wouldn't have minded it one bit but it's not a steal at nearly 10 mil for 20-22 starts he'll give you in a typical year. I was hoping 6/1.

Healy should be on the AAA roster at 1b. He should be a veteran stash player in case Braun gets hurt or fails at 1b. He is basically a free player. Comparing his 3b play, which shouldn't happen, to Castellanos doesn't alleviate the fact that Castellanos is a terrible defender at 3b. If 3b isn't at least half open with Sogard playing part time there, I'm going to be livid. I also don't want a 30 million dollar old guy or a 15 million dollar LF playing 3b. Sure it's not putting Braun back at 3b, but its bad. Hiura is terrible at 2b so far. Urias isn't a sure thing defensively at SS. You put a bad 3b defender out there too and this infield could be a complete circus.

It's not that Burnes couldn't start the year in the pen. It's that Burnes has a good pitch mix and I'd prefer them to relegate him back to AAA like they did with Woodruff after his first taste of success. He needs to keep working towards being a starter. He has too many quality offerings to toss him straight into the pen and forget about the starter path. Last year, after the rough start I said they should send him to AAA to keep working as a starter and kiss him goodbye until 2021. I think starting him in the pen in 2020 is a bigger bad sign then starting him in AAA. Peralta, even Hader do not have the same pitch profile so that decision was easy.

AAA: Burnes, Peralta, Supak, Brown, Jankins AA: Bettinger, File, Francis, Rasmussen, Zavalos A+: Ashby, Small, Lazar, Bennett, Castaneda/Sunitsch A: Jarvis, Olson, Kelly, Lindell, Walters, Luna, Lemons if he's ready This seems like a ridiculous number of interesting names. I honestly do not remember the farm ever looking this interesting throughout. There really aren't any guys who look like inning eating MiLB forever bodies. Doesn't mean all of them work out but the fact that over 10 of them look promising and about 5 more look pen possible is pretty staggering. DS seems to like to take bats 1st but the depth of arms in this organization is really impressive.

With Seager you are paying a lot of money for a plus plus glove and prospects. If they eat money (15mil no vest) you aren't getting prospects and you are still paying 7 mil extra to get a guy who is plus plus glove over the a guy like Flores who could split 3b with Sogard. People say to that it's not enough power. Flores OPS has been better than Seager's over the last 3 years. No age decline concerns and you probably get a bigger impact out of that 7 mil used on an arm than you do from Seager's glove. If he was a FA and MKE could bid on him at market price I'd be more interested. I feel people are chasing a name and defense with him at this point. I also love that people wanting to pay 20-30 mil for a great pitcher are the same people who seem eager to trade Hader. We need aces, let's trade an ace.

Yay. Todd Frazier. Inspiring! Yeah anything less than a 200 million dollar payroll isn't even trying.

And those come cheap

Seems to effect some guys a lot more than others. I'm not trying to make the case that Lemons is a sure thing or that he's an elite (in all of baseball) talent, but not putting him in the Brewers top 30 seems a little much. He's one of their top 7 draft picks in the last 4 years who hasn't graduated. Teens, 20s seems much more fair and makes the farm look better than it does now. It seems with MKE they are far too quick to erase guys and far to slow to realize a prospect is a real prospect. Then he goes from 20-35 to top 5 in the system to the MLB in 6 months. File, yeah not sitting at 95+ but when you can throw a curve that drops dramatically and a slider that sweeps across the plate that looks the same as a 90-93 FB that he can locate, I wish batters good luck. I remember watching a highlight package on him and watching back to back pitches that went FB letter high inner 3rd then CB which started letter high inner 3rd and crossed right above the knees for strike 3. They looked the same until one broke and the other didn't. Batter didn't have a prayer. Yeah highlights are highlights but 93 FB up vs CB 80 for a strike and the batter basically has to guess which one. It's filthy. He talks about Trevor Bauer often and for good reason.

Machado was their Hosmer. Make ourselves "relevant" signing.

Interesting idea depending on the price. He's been trending in the wrong direction in AAA since he was 23.

I get the premise, but I don't think Castellanos and Garcia are moves you make together. Castellanos is pretty rough in RF as well. He's really only graded well defensively at LF in a limited sample. It makes sense to have both in 2021. Bit of a log jam in 2020 and I'm not sure Castellanos is the guy you go through that transition to make sure you acquire. Had they not signed Garcia that idea makes a lot more sense. As for Andujar. I'm not sure why people are so bent on going against the evidence. No one knows if he can stick at 3B but we all got a pretty good idea. I don't get why people get so hung up on these low probability of success options. Is it possible things could turn around for him, sure. It's not likely that he can play 3B though. Castellanos has even more evidence that points to him being a pretty bad 3B. Even when he was doing well defensively he was pretty bad at 3b. There's just too many people going "so you are saying there's a chance," and digging into that wing and a prayer.