UpandIn

Right. I don't believe they will non-tender him. You do. To recap this discussion, YOU listed the players we'd be "losing," I then said we wouldn't be losing them for nothing IF we did. Just...a hypothetical, from a Twins message board; So...basically, a AA reliever and a MLB reliever with a upper 90s fastball. Again, I don't see the Brewers dumping their best hitter from last year so they can go with 3 rookies and Yelich in the OF... 3.47 ERA and an ERA+ of 107 and 130 the past two years(with nearly a quarter of his Earned runs coming in two starts inflated even those numbers this year). That seems like a BIT more than a "back of the rotation, innings eater. Nothing more." That's definitely something...more than that. Again, you came up with the scenario in which the only way the Brewers could afford Abreu was this cataclysmic event in which we had to rid ourself of these players who...apparently don't have a whole lot of value in your opinion. Am I the only one who thinks that? Doesn't seem like I'm "the only person on the planet" who thinks the Brewers COULD sign Abreu given there is additional TV revenue coming in this year that more than makes up for it. OR they could still deal Wong as I've suggested since Turang is ready in AAA. I guess I'll just have to take your word for it that I'm the ONLY one in the world in a year with increasing revenue and Mark Attanasio saying they'll be "very active" this off-season while talking about building around the core of this team! Now, lets circle back; I guess if you don't think they should even bother to tender Renfroe and that Lauer is "Nothing more" than an innings eater, the answer would then be pretty obvious. YEAH. Abreu would most definitely be worth the upgrade. In particular, his ability to hit left handed pitching and the 137 WRC+. Feels like you kinda answered your own question here! Just needed to work it out I guess?

Right. I don't believe they will non-tender him. You do. To recap this discussion, YOU listed the players we'd be "losing," I then said we wouldn't be losing them for nothing IF we did. Just...a hypothetical, from a Twins message board; So...basically, a AA reliever and a MLB reliever with a upper 90s fastball. Again, I don't see the Brewers dumping their best hitter from last year so they can go with 3 rookies and Yelich in the OF... 3.47 ERA and an ERA+ of 107 and 130 the past two years(with nearly a quarter of his Earned runs coming in two starts inflated even those numbers this year). That seems like a BIT more than a "back of the rotation, innings eater. Nothing more." That's definitely something...more than that. Again, you came up with the scenario in which the only way the Brewers could afford Abreu was this cataclysmic event in which we had to rid ourself of these players who...apparently don't have a whole lot of value in your opinion. Am I the only one who thinks that? Doesn't seem like I'm "the only person on the planet" who thinks the Brewers COULD sign Abreu given there is additional TV revenue coming in this year that more than makes up for it. OR they could still deal Wong as I've suggested since Turang is ready in AAA. I guess I'll just have to take your word for it that I'm the ONLY one in the world in a year with increasing revenue and Mark Attanasio saying they'll be "very active" this off-season while talking about building around the core of this team! Now, lets circle back; I guess if you don't think they should even bother to tender Renfroe and that Lauer is "Nothing more" than an innings eater, the answer would then be pretty obvious. YEAH. Abreu would most definitely be worth the upgrade. In particular, his ability to hit left handed pitching and the 137 WRC+. Feels like you kinda answered your own question here! Just needed to work it out I guess?

None of us here are actually making any of these calls, so I don't know if "we" are planning on going into the season with Urias at 3B, but the top 3B on the FA market...is Jace Peterson. Who is the 3B we should be talking about? You want a catcher...cool. I'd gladly take Contreras as a FA. I don't think that's going to happen. So no 3B, SS is set. Wong or maybe Segura are the top 2B. Catcher is a possible position to upgrade. OR a 1B who just happens to fit into the lineup about as perfectly as possible. A guy who hits for a high average and crushes left handed pitching?

None of us here are actually making any of these calls, so I don't know if "we" are planning on going into the season with Urias at 3B, but the top 3B on the FA market...is Jace Peterson. Who is the 3B we should be talking about? You want a catcher...cool. I'd gladly take Contreras as a FA. I don't think that's going to happen. So no 3B, SS is set. Wong or maybe Segura are the top 2B. Catcher is a possible position to upgrade. OR a 1B who just happens to fit into the lineup about as perfectly as possible. A guy who hits for a high average and crushes left handed pitching?

Yeah, you really didn't though. In your world, Renfroe is getting non-tendered either way. So...how does his loss factor in? Lauer? It was laughable to call him a #3, right? So now it's a #4/5? I don't know what's NOT laughable to you. But a back of the rotation pitcher(per you) and Tellez vs Abreu. This is a circular argument as you're the one who made the claim they absolutely HAD to get rid of those players in order to add ABREU...so it started with your faulty premise, then I pointed out IF they did trade those players, they'd get talent back for them...and it seemingly went over your head.

Yeah, you really didn't though. In your world, Renfroe is getting non-tendered either way. So...how does his loss factor in? Lauer? It was laughable to call him a #3, right? So now it's a #4/5? I don't know what's NOT laughable to you. But a back of the rotation pitcher(per you) and Tellez vs Abreu. This is a circular argument as you're the one who made the claim they absolutely HAD to get rid of those players in order to add ABREU...so it started with your faulty premise, then I pointed out IF they did trade those players, they'd get talent back for them...and it seemingly went over your head.

I thought it was gonna take a turn... I personally think Turang is similar to Turner...and THAT is where he was going. I thought it was a little misdirection. Could Turang be our Trea Turner(a similar type player, I'm not saying he's going to be as good). I didn't think it was just a "lets spend 35M a year to sign a player to replace our best player and one of our top prospects! Yeah...small market!"

I thought it was gonna take a turn... I personally think Turang is similar to Turner...and THAT is where he was going. I thought it was a little misdirection. Could Turang be our Trea Turner(a similar type player, I'm not saying he's going to be as good). I didn't think it was just a "lets spend 35M a year to sign a player to replace our best player and one of our top prospects! Yeah...small market!"

Yeah....I'd much rather have Contreras. I'd rather have Judge as well. I don't really see Contreras being a realistic target though. He wants 5/100 and given the state of catching...that doesn't seem like a reach.

Yeah....I'd much rather have Contreras. I'd rather have Judge as well. I don't really see Contreras being a realistic target though. He wants 5/100 and given the state of catching...that doesn't seem like a reach.

It's hard to sift through all the contradictions. It's funny that Lauer is a #3...but it'd hurt so much to lose him? Renfroe is going to be non-tendered...so then he'd already be gone, right? And no, I didn't say that was a good idea. If they're going to non-tender Renfroe like you're say and if they bring in Abreu over Tellez, that's a pretty big upgrade. You're the one who came up with this either or all on your own. I simply pointed out we wouldn't just be losing all three players for nothing.

It's hard to sift through all the contradictions. It's funny that Lauer is a #3...but it'd hurt so much to lose him? Renfroe is going to be non-tendered...so then he'd already be gone, right? And no, I didn't say that was a good idea. If they're going to non-tender Renfroe like you're say and if they bring in Abreu over Tellez, that's a pretty big upgrade. You're the one who came up with this either or all on your own. I simply pointed out we wouldn't just be losing all three players for nothing.

LOL...of course. Beer and Hot Dogs. I don't need a shirtless calendar from my team. I don't care if you're fat if you can hit. I wasn't really bothered by Prince or CC's physique!

LOL...of course. Beer and Hot Dogs. I don't need a shirtless calendar from my team. I don't care if you're fat if you can hit. I wasn't really bothered by Prince or CC's physique!

OR it could just mean the Brewers are taking the additional revenue from revenue sharing to spend on Abreu. Or they're pushing their payroll up a bit as Attanasio said they were capable of last year. BUT, lets so you do hypothetically trade Renfroe, Lauer and Tellez. You're not just losing those 3-4 players. It's not like you'd non-tender them. Renfroe-Wiemer gets into the lineup, adds much better defense, speed. Likely falls well short of his offensive output, but you still come out ahead with Jose Abreu, pretty much the perfect fit on the market who's at all reasonable. Lauer-You don't have an in-house replacement, but 2 years left of a #3 caliber pitcher would...or SHOULD definitely net you at least one valuable high leverage reliever at the very least. Rowdy-You get Abreu to replace him, and you get back...I don't know, a lottery ticket.

OR it could just mean the Brewers are taking the additional revenue from revenue sharing to spend on Abreu. Or they're pushing their payroll up a bit as Attanasio said they were capable of last year. BUT, lets so you do hypothetically trade Renfroe, Lauer and Tellez. You're not just losing those 3-4 players. It's not like you'd non-tender them. Renfroe-Wiemer gets into the lineup, adds much better defense, speed. Likely falls well short of his offensive output, but you still come out ahead with Jose Abreu, pretty much the perfect fit on the market who's at all reasonable. Lauer-You don't have an in-house replacement, but 2 years left of a #3 caliber pitcher would...or SHOULD definitely net you at least one valuable high leverage reliever at the very least. Rowdy-You get Abreu to replace him, and you get back...I don't know, a lottery ticket.

The 100MPH fastball you or...Damulle posted on Twitter along with the 88 MPH slider, that was enough right there to protect that guy. His performance in the Fall League aside. But that Fastball moved almost like a Changeup. Reading the comments...there were people who legitimately asked if that was his change. If he can throw 100 like that and he's toying with other grips, it's just a lock, you have to protect him. Right now, the one area we could improve this team the most...IMO, is the BP. If they just brought back most of the same team, add some of the young prospects and then can find 2-3 overpowering relievers, I'll be happy. Ecreg was another guy I thought might get protected, just because of his stuff, but...not to be.

The 100MPH fastball you or...Damulle posted on Twitter along with the 88 MPH slider, that was enough right there to protect that guy. His performance in the Fall League aside. But that Fastball moved almost like a Changeup. Reading the comments...there were people who legitimately asked if that was his change. If he can throw 100 like that and he's toying with other grips, it's just a lock, you have to protect him. Right now, the one area we could improve this team the most...IMO, is the BP. If they just brought back most of the same team, add some of the young prospects and then can find 2-3 overpowering relievers, I'll be happy. Ecreg was another guy I thought might get protected, just because of his stuff, but...not to be.

Yeah...I don't understand that one. Devanney? Is it too much 3B depth in your MiLB system? But I'm glad they kept Uribe, Robinson...I was sweating out Turang, not sure if he'd get added, but beyond that...Devanney over Singleton made a lot of sense. If Singleton has a good STing, you can create a spot on the 40.

Yeah...I don't understand that one. Devanney? Is it too much 3B depth in your MiLB system? But I'm glad they kept Uribe, Robinson...I was sweating out Turang, not sure if he'd get added, but beyond that...Devanney over Singleton made a lot of sense. If Singleton has a good STing, you can create a spot on the 40.

I didn't say they shouldn't. I said they shouldn't trade Wiemer for Diaz. 6 years of Wiemer and his upside vs a 1B/DH. We're gonna need a couple of RHed hitters in this lineup, and preferably a few who hit for power. And you could thrown Abreu in there. He's not re-signing in Chicago(at least the South Side, rumor is the team on the North side my want him...for some reason). He's the perfect fit...revenues are up, no better time than to go get a guy who fits this lineup perfectly than right now when the Brewers are talking about being all in. Maybe he wants to stay in Chicago and it's not an option. Anyway, this excercise is you post a proposal, people comment on it. I commented I wouldn't trade that much for Diaz. 2 years of Diaz. Have to hope he maintains his play from last year which was by far a career year...and like I said, he's the type of hitter we could use, I just wouldn't do it for a guy like Wiemer who could fill in in any OF spot, DH...and probably 1B at some point in the future for a guy who hits for very little power while being primarily a 1B/DH.

As I said, he doesn't have his speed, but they're similar in every other area scouts grade. Hit tool, power, arm, field...both guys who walk at a high rate, also a lot of swing and miss. There are almost no perfect comps. Maybe Hunter Pence is a better one, but Buhner was traded for a guy who put up a .400 OBP in limited action and looked similar to Diaz before becoming a fixture in RF for the Mariners for almost 15 years, so I went with him. Hart, Pence...fine. But Geoff Jenkins? Also, I don't even know how to begin to use Sammy Sosa as a comp. He's like a cartoon character who came up as a shorter, skinny, 160LB OFer and then his head swelled about a quarter inch less than Bonds.

So athletic attributes aren't physical attributes to you? If a player is 6'7 vs 5'11, you don't consider that at all? That's...a strange take and contrary to most definitions, but alright.

LOL...probably because that's how you compare prospects, by their physical attributes. Speed, power, their hit tool, build. These are the ways scouts compare players. It was also the basis for MY comparison when you disagreed and then compared Wiemer to Hart. That had nothing to do with the fact that they were both tall, lanky OFers? Of course it did. But you don't use stats, you don't use physical attributes...you mix in left handed hitters with right handed hitters. How DO you actually draw comparisons other than scouting reports?

BTV has Tyrone Taylor similar to Wiemer per BTV. It's obviously not perfect, but that's a pretty significant gap in value...IMO. I suspect most Brewers fans would much rather see Taylor traded than Wiemer.