BrewerFan

LOL...kid says it all! I know I'm in the minority, but I feel good about the way this team is built now. I think there's a lot of young talent and you can either hold with Burnes/Adames and see what that young talent gives you, or trade them and build toward the future. There's a lot of reason to keep them and I think it's as much about winning next year as it is about not pissing off the majority of the fanbase. I still hear complaining about Hader from Brewers Twitter. And while people may argue that shouldn't matter, of course it does. They're trying to get fans in the stadium.

Stokes graded the best in Press-Man coverage as a rookie. He was exceptional, particularly for a rookie. He wasn't nearly as good last year, then got hurt and it was a bad injury. And now this year has been a lost year. I don't see any reason to let him go at this point...but I also can't envision them picking up his option. That one seems like an easy call. Gives him another year to rehab and get on the field. It's a little disconcerting...it'd suggest he just pulled it again in camp. Watson is going to work with some specialists on strengthening his back in hopes it'll help him with Hamstrings. I don't know how heavily they need to invest in CB, but they need to invest in DBs. With the salary cap clearing up, I mentioned Budda Baker in another thread, but Antoine Winfield would be another really good fit. A safety who's tough, good in coverage...and then you invest in a safety like Hicks(WSU) or Williams(Miami) later on. More of a SS type. They definitely found something in Valentine and I'd hope that a new DC can get the most out of Jaire. I like him, think he's a good dude, he's competitive. Just has to get his head right.

I can't say I've noticed a lot of cheap shots or anything that's impacted the game negatively, but they do seem to do a lot of talking for a team giving up 30+ to terrible offenses...that can get annoying(like a guy celebrating a 1st down-down 30 points in a blowout). But I guess with the current poor leadership, it wouldn't surprise me to see someone getting a personal foul or do something stupid at the worst possible time. I am happy with Quay. He's walked the line pretty well this year. Reigned in the stupid $### while still playing aggressively and with an edge.

Yes...I think they almost certainly would. Teams are still going to do whatever they can to win, to get an edge. I don't see why teams wouldn't try and innovate. Would we be asking the same thing about the NFL and developing QBs with the Packers "QB school," under Clements? The Packers are flush with cash, they can pay as much as anyone. The GSWs in the NBA, they changed the style of play in the NBA and analytics rule the day. Seems like they'd try and maintain any competitive advantage they can. I don't care how my teams win(aside from just flagrant cheating). The Packers were spending roughly 100M more on players than the salary cap and probably 150 more for just last season than the likes of the Bears and other bad teams(and now are spending about 70M less than the cap). Players are coming to the Bucks to play now that otherwise wouldn't. Players always go to teams like the Heat or Lakers. There's no balanced playing field, but if you have a cap, you limit the imbalance and then teams have to fight to find wins and gains on the margins...the pitching lab being a prime example. The Brewers in an NFL/NBA type system probably sign Burnes to extensions by now. The flip side is they probably also sign Burnes.

"Salary cappers?" That's a new one. But if you watch the NFL, NBA and MLB, players in Baseball are earning less % of the revenue than the two capped sports. Pretty sure the market is fair in the NFL, NBA.

Maybe with Rodgers, he's there to calm the players on defense down...and it's not just Rodgers, but Lewis, Cobb, Bakh was around the team. Then this year they don't have the veteran leadership, and the most outspoken vet seemed to be Douglas. The first part is so painfully obvious, it's frustrating that he's not being fired. Again, probably a good man, nice guy...but so are dozens of players invited to camp each year. The players don't respect him and it's so important to build the culture right around such a young core. I think you might need to go get a guy like Budda Baker as a FA this year. Someone who just has the impeccable credentials as a player, has a team first attitude and obviously being in his prime helps. He reminds me a bit of LeRoy. I hope it's Leonhard. It's so annoying to hear people say we only want him because he was at UW or that if you get Leonhard, "it's just a different version of Pettine." He's an outstanding coach. I do know that because I watched him at Wisconsin more than Michigan's DC(who Michigan fans say is the next big hire) but it's also easy to see how his scheme so easily translates. LOL...yeah...too much goes into the job for him to be managing everything. You had a bunch of big-names available to be your GM...you went with Gutey, now trust him. Gutey went with MLF, trust him. That's how the job works. If they don't produce results, you fire them. MLF having to go to Gutekunst and Ball to fire Barry and then going to Murphy and Murphy having to approve it? It's stupid. Keep it how it'd been under Harlan and most of his tenure. I still think this team is mostly going in the right direction. Just basic, obvious changes are needed.

Right. I'm saying the reports at the time were that he turned down 650M in favor of 550M, not a billion. That's a big difference, but given what Balmer did to get the LAC, it's hardly surprising he'd up the offer like that. It IS surprising even a wealthy man like Kohl wouldn't take him up on it. That's...pretty special. Milwaukee had two owners whose teams were....not great for a large majority of their tenure, but each did their part to ensure Milwaukee kept their teams. Selig and Kohl.

Yes, I'd want Painter rather than Abel, but I can't imagine the Phills give up that much for a rental. I was thinking Painter and then maybe Kerkering and McFarlane, but that's a big-big package for 3 years total of pitching(albeit exceptional pitching).

I did not know that...that is incredible. I knew he'd turned down money and that he was intent on making sure the Bucks stayed in Wisconsin, but I thought it was 650M. That was what the MJS reported way back, but looking at Balmer, it certainly wouldn't be surprising to see him come back and try and up the ante.

Yeah, the Sixers have proven themselves to be playoff juggernauts🙄 This team looks great. When Middleton is healthy(as he is now) and they can rotate Jackson, Beauchamp, get Crowder back, I'm not worrying about the Sixers. Where's this come from? Did I just not pay attention in the past, or was everyone so fatalistic about the Bucks? They've started slow, they've been great going...what, 19-4 in their last 23. It's not even the new year. And Crowder has been an elite defensive player the last few years. You weren't going to go from Jrue to Dame and not see a drop off in defense, but I'll gladly take my chances with this team, if healthy, in the post-season.

How quickly Wilson went from being viewed as one of those star QBs to now being released. I think he'd be an upgrade, but if the Vikings re-sign Cousins they can take some of the void money coming up this year and push it off. If they sign Wilson, they'll just be starting that cycle over again. It'd be smarter for them to go into rebuild mode or just go with Dobbs for a year(IMO).

Sure. And I'm excited about them. I think it's waaay to premature to call Misiorowski a TOR arm and I don't believe Gasser or Rodriguez profile as top of the rotation type pitchers either. They're both more likely to be #3s. Not guys you'd prefer to Game 1. And if they are, awesome. Having more starting pitchers won't be a waste. Misiorowski is a unique talent, but...he's thrown 73 total innings, many believe he'll be a reliever. That seems to be solely because of his delivery and being a little wild, but the point is, there's still a long way to go from turning him into an ace at the Major League level. To be clear, I don't think we've got this baren system with regards to starting pitching, but our system is ranked as high as 3rd on the backs of the position prospects, not the pitching prospects. Right, I wouldn't want to trade Burnes for a pitcher just for the sake of it if a team is offering a potential middle-of-the-order bat. My preference would just be to find a team that fits better. Also, as pointed out, the Os seem to be hoarding their prospects. I'd be looking at the Phillies. If you could get a guy like Painter+2 lower-level prospects for Burnes and Williams? That's a deal I'd make. Abel as well. The Rangers are a team that may be more willing to be patient now, but they may want to double down after a WS. The Jays, the Giants. Teams that may think they've got a reasonable path toward re-signing Burnes after the season would also help. Doubt that'd be the Orioles. I also would trust the Brewers FO. I didn't like the Taylor/Houser trade, but...the only trade they've made that's been really bad(IMO) has been the Reece Olson trade. The marks on the other side of the ledger outweigh that by quite a bit.

To reiterate...they do not. They haven't since Thompson was here.

Yeah, but it's more than that. From Harlan hiring Wolf until 2019, it was Murphy atop that chart, but he hired the GM and then he stayed out of the Football side. His job is similar to the board of directors. They pick a President and they don't make decisions after that. The President picks a GM, he doesn't make FB decisions after that. I'm sure when it comes to a franchise-altering trade such as the Rodgers trade, you would always be expected to go over it with him, but Murphy(and I've linked this already) has gone way over and started to become a problem. From his comments about how Rodgers would only be back if things didn't work out like they wanted...which is just stupid, you're giving the Jets leverage. I'm not sure it ended up mattering, I think we did well, but it was stupid and it MAY have cost us the 1st rd pick this year and it was just strange. I've already commented about his influence or forcing Pettine, Drayton, or the insulting offer to Rizzi(NO ST Coordinator)... This started with the Thompson firing, it proceeded on since then; https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/12/4-thoughts-on-recent-changes-within-packers-organization/ https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/09/silverstein-critics-see-cracks-green-bay-packers-new-management-structure/1142267001/ That's the question. Is it Matt LaFleur's call or not? Can MLF just fire people or not? We don't know. And no, MLF does not seem like an authoritarian, but he seems to have the respect of most of the locker room. Or he has until this year. But when you keep employing such a bad coach....thee worst coach I've seen in any of the sports teams I follow, you lose the players trust, you lose credibility...and then they start going rogue. Jaire SHOULD be a leader on the team...he is to blame. I'd say that when things really started to sound bad was Campbell's tweet last week. If Kenny Clark comes out and says something? When is it the trusted vets you trust/believe vs the DC has failed?

Yeah, that's all great, but there's a leadership issue in GB right now. This season was primarily about developing Love and transitioning, but that's also about developing a culture where your leadership and young players...not acting like clowns. I still don't know if it's Murphy, MLF(it's Barry, but it goes up at least one level higher).

I didn't say it excused it, I said Barry is losing the locker room. I'm not sure what you mean by "self-inflicted garbage that is happening on the field," though. Is this a general statement, or about Jaire specifically? I just asked this question in the last week; MLF has to be losing credibility due to the decision-making of Joe Barry and that spreads and infects the team. Players start speaking out, they become more emboldened, then they...make themselves captain and they get suspended. I don't actually think the last part normally happens, but...this is costing MLF, this is a young team and they need more leadership from the staff and it has to come from players/coaches they respect.

They're 17-4 in their last 21 and Middleton is just rounding into form, Connaughton has played poorly early on with his injury and Crowder is out. They'll be fine. I keep hearing PJ Tucker. He's going to be 39 years old. You'd have to trade Portis for him. I believe that's the only option as I don't believe you can aggregate players salaries over the 2nd apron. But that would really be a dumb trade IMO. Let Crowder come back. They just won 7 in a row, 10 of 13 before that. They're fine. 1st year coach, Dame, Giannis and now Khris gelling. Lopez still playing at a high level. All the angst...mainly over the 5-4 start as they've lost 4 games in the 18 since then. I think they'll be fine.

You ever have a boss or a coach who has absolutely no clue, but their poor performance reflects upon you? That's how you lose a locker room. And while I thought there's no point in firing Barry now...it's looking like it makes more and more sense. With a young team, culture is so important. It's a miracle we're 7-8.

Yeah...they're pretty much the same. All of Jaire's run ins with the Police and sideline tantrums, that makes sense...🙄

Well, Wilken, the all-time leader in HRs in the ACC, he'll likely start in AA. Boeve is looking at AA next year. Two advanced bats who can play 3B and two big power prep bats with massive upside on top of what we already had. Black might not have great power, but...I don't really care if he has a .370 OBP, steals 30 bases, and hits 15-20 HRs and 40 doubles. If Wilken develops as expected or as we hope, he's our 3B. Boeve, they're playing at 2B, but can play 3rd. He's probably more of a Cirillo-type player. But the big thing here...when Chourio and all the young OF prospects we've got are up and slugging in 2-3 years and we've got an elite offense, what we're going to miss then...is dominant starting pitching. We drafted heavily on the offensive side, taking an entirely different approach...which takes 4-5 years to pay off(longer with the international FAs, but after Lara, we lost our picks and sat out for two years before investing in the Dominican facilities and the scouting. So we've got the offensive prospects coming, and while I get the impatience, what we need are guys we can build into TOR-type arms...IMO. All that to say...we need pitching more than we need a 3B.

Did you hear his comments after the last last week? He was asked if he'd consider firing a Coordinator in-season and he said "this isn't the time to talk about that," and made other comments that were...not subtle. He made comments earlier in the season about the "definition of insanity." He's called out Barry numerous times. Not by name, but all but. Sure. I'd counter that the defense is STACKED with talent and that the offense is the youngest in the NFL...since the Merger and likely before, but they don't have average ages. So give Love the players around him and talent around him that the D has and I think they'd be elite. Just another year with the same group will push them top 5 IMO. You add a guy like Joe Alt(who I'd absolutely trade a 2nd+ to move up to get if we could) and then some players who fit this scheme like Jaheim Bell out of FSU(look up his tape at South Carolina from '22 if you need, but he's a 6-3 230LB H-Back/RB/WRer/TE...just a dude with size, athletic ability and jaw-dropping athletic ability that translates as he can track the deep ball down the middle). And then you keep adding talent at OG. I think Rasheed Walker can be a star there, Rhyan MAY be, but the point is even without upgrade to personnel, they should be better. The defense right now has the talent and experience to be excelling. This group would excel in Capers style. This group is perfect for his version of the 34. This defense effectively relies on the two-edge rushers to get home. You play 2 gap on your DL...so Wyatt isn't going to get those sacks where he just whoops someone unless he goes rogue. It's a .5 second delay for the DL. Then you have your DBs playing off in a soft zone... Agreed...and of course, we helped, but that kid looks like he could still be a helluva pick. You want to know who the great QBs will be(or more specifically WON'T be)...listen to Merril Hodge. That dude has been nailing it year after year. I grew up with him and I never really thought he was that great, but he breaks down QB play for kids coming out of College and he's been remarkably reliable. Said he liked Young, but wouldn't have a 1st round grade on him just because he's too small and that should be reserved for franchise QBs. Respected how people would say, "Look how tough that kid is," and how he kept getting up from big hits, but that's just not sustainable. CJ Stroud was the one guy he had a 1st-round-grade grade on this year...a guy a lot of people were pretty down on relative to your average top 3 QB pick. Then of course, the famous Johnny Manziel comments!

You're in the NFL, you can't be that delicate. The offense includes and ultimately the responsibility of MLF. He's not firing Barry at this point, he was getting questions about the defense. If THAT is an issue? Again, this was a big story for a POTENTIAL issue in 2019 when Murphy got involved. He was forced to keep Pettine and Barry wasn't his first choice. I'll have more confidence in the entire football operations once Murphy gets his nose out of things. Gutekunst has proven himself. I believe MLF has mostly. If we get Rizzi and don't offer to make him one of the lowest STC in the NFL, we win that SF game(presumably). Every coach is going to make "nepo," hires though. You hire guys you work with.

He runs the offense, he's just taking accountability...I wouldn't look much deeper into THIS specific statement. I still think he's gone, but this was a meaningless quote to me other than to take some of the public scrutiny off MLF.

I get it though. I could see the Brewers...*IF everything goes right with Pratt, Bitonti, Knoth, Misi, and the young guys...being in a similar situation, and I wouldn't want to trade a couple of future stars for a SPer. I didn't like the Sabathia trade when it happened. I wanted to see the Brewers trade for Grienke. I didn't like the Marcum trade. I think I was proven wrong on both(you could argue otherwise with Greinke, but that incredible run CC had was the most historic run for a VERY long period). They probably want to put a team like the Braves offense has on the field(they should start offering extensions now).

It was inferred, but it feels like Campbell's was something that was building and building and blew. I just hope MLF can get these guys back. MM may have gotten stale, but he had his guys motivated and behind him for the most part early on. Leaders like Wood, Pickett, Tasuch, Clifton, they certainly help, but a group this young? MLF needs to grab the reigns back.