BrewerFan

We're cutting and pasting now rather than showing links? It's funny, I put that in a ChatGTP search and it shows an article from the Brewers potentially signing him to a Minor League deal before 2023. So... kinda pointless, but maybe someone wrote the exact same thing about him recently and they're all wrong. 93.2 to touching 98 in 180 IP as a starter when I'm suggesting bringing him over as a long man IF Woodruff declines is "basically the same." Agree or don't... just don't pretend he's "basically the same" in terms of stuff as he was when we drafted him. And I think you know that or you'd have posted a link... since pretty much EVERY single link talks about how his stuff got much better this past year.

I know, that's why I said IF that were to happen, he'd have made a pretty big mistake(IMO). I would think his agent would have some feel for what he could get, but... maybe not. Certainly not always the case. And I know the pay structure was... loose. I'd guess it'd be an opt out but he'd get 8M in that 2nd year for opting out. That way, if he's good enough, he pays off for both sides. If he's not, he's got some security. I always think of Sheet's and Harden and the contracts they got after they were hurt and out for a while, but... there are a lot more recent examples. Same here. I just hate when people list the injuries and start with the shoulder. That WAS his injury. He had a capsule injury. Then... it went and he needed surgery on it. That's one injury that takes a very long time. And... then a simple lat strain. It's hurt the Brewers due to the timing, but... he's another year removed. I also don't think we made the QO for a pick. Not exclusively. I think the thought process was probably... if he takes a 1 year deal, great, it's low risk. If he opts not to, we get a draft pick. But I suspect they'd prefer he accepts. Just... my opinion. The predictions on his contracts have varied SO much, it's going to be really interesting to see if he accepts. Otherwise, he declines I'm going to guess he ends up in NY for 3/75 or so. The Mets, Stearns, they have young pitching but could use depth and can afford it. OR... maybe the Braves. They'd also make a lot of sense. Sale, Strider and Woodruff as their 1-3.... plus Waldrep and other young arms.

So... he was bad in the 55 IP he threw in 2020 and 2021? Quinn Priester was also bad. I don't care. Ponce went and build up his arm strength and added a plus change. Throws 95-96 hits 98 now. Lindblom threw 90. So... they're just two guys who pitched in the KBO. I would hope the Brewers don't make the mistake of writing a guy off because they once signed a guy from somewhere and he wasn't good. No more pitchers from Miss St because Ethan Small was a bust? That'd... be silly.

I think if he gets a 3/40 type deal, he'll have made a mistake turning down the QO. Pitchers with his pedigree, baring another shoulder injury(which he proved he was back from, so that's a bit of a long shot and I'd assume he'd bet on himself)... but, even if he were to get injured this year, he's shown enough that I still think he'd get 8 figures next year. 1/10M I don't think people realize how many injured pitchers get signed hoping they'll get healthy each year. Maybe it's just because the Brewers don't do it. But taking 8M/16M/16M vs 22M/?/? would certainly not be betting on himself. He'd need 9M a year for 2 years to beat that. Shane Bieber just "shocked" the Jays by opting into 16M PO. And you can go back and list the guys like Trevor Rosenthal, a reliever who was signed toward the end of the season for 4.5M(not prorated) despite not having thrown in 2 years and being bad the years prior to Kluber or... it's a very long list. I would love to see a 3/40 deal for him. Injuries lead to other injuries. He's got a full off-season with a healthy shoulder and his lat should be fine... early enough. They'll likely be careful with him next year(that's kinda their MO regardless of the pitcher).

If Woodruff declines, Cody Ponce is intriguing to me. Longshot, bringing a guy we gave up on back in , but if he gets 3/21, we could use him out of the pen as a long man, or splits innings with Ashby. Ashby goes 4, Ponce goes 3, FB plays up, 97-99 in shorter outings. He could be a very interesting. I wonder if he may be wiling to come back to the team that drafted him. Fedde type deal, but he has better stuff. And I still like Caleb Ferguson. You could get Ponce and Ferguson for the price of Woodruff, but it'd also limit the flexibility you'd have on your 40 man. Not to say I'd prefer one of the other, but Ponce 3/21 and Ferguson at 2/12 and potentially a comp pick. Just the type of thing we could do if Woodruff thought he'd get more and declined.

They're obligated to pay the 10M either way. That was really salary from this year. So technically, he'll get 32M. 5M in Jan and 5M in August or... whatever it is. And then 22M in his paycheck. I still think it's 50/50 he accepts. This has happened with quite a few guys. It seems like some end up settling for what is close to the QO on a 1 year deal somewhere they didn't want to go. But there was one year where Craig Kimbrel and... someone else, they both waited to sign due to the QO. We'll find out in 10 days if he accepts. The Brewes sure lucked out and got Kyle Lohse because nobody wanted to pay the pick attached to that QO on him!

Ortiz has played 2 years in Milwaukee. He was solid his first year. This year his BB% dropped in half and his BABIP was .260 despite having very good speed. More importantly, they weren't going to sign Bichette, so... who was this money going to go to? They have Pratt in AA. He'll be in AAA to start next year. Made in AA. Those are the SS replacements if we're in need of one. What FA do you think would have cost 22M over a year that would have been worth it....

Of course. It'd be silly to turn around and trade Peralta now because you have Woodruff back. You're paying more for less of a sure thing. I am kinda curious if the Brewers think or expected he'd decline or maybe they will trade him. Could be they have an idea of a player or package they can get for Peralta and Woodruff is stepping in just in that role. He's a veteran leader, good pitcher. Another year removed from the shoulder, so... hopefully healthy. But then you're not trading due to finances. You're trading entirely due to team building. I'm not sure what you mean by you "have to trade Freddy if he isn't signed by the winter meetings." Are we talking about an extension or... Woodruff if he declines the QO? Either way, I'm... not seeing the upside in trading Peralta. I don't actually think he had a lot more value than Adames did. An elite fielding SS with power vs a... really good but not quite ace type starter? The value is a toss up. I also do not think they throw Woody 1 inning in the minors next year because he's blocking young pitchers. They're not going to waste however many bullets he has on AA just for the helluva it. Go through the innings we have to cover. Then look at the pitchers we have. Peralta should give you ~6 a start, Preister 6-7 a starter and... who else? Especially among the younger starters. You're not keeping Woodruff down so they can get innings. They can work on their stuff at AAA. We also have a lot of pitchers who could be really good and are probably not great candidates to go through an order a 3rd time. Henderson, Ashby, Hall(don't think he'll be a starter, but... lets say he is). -Comp picks. That's... a BIG part of how the Brewers build. It's also not just the pick. You can't get too hung up on who is used on THAT exact pick. It's the pool money. That pick may allow you to sign 3 more High School prospects like Adamczewski in Rds 11-20. That's enormous. Bishop Letson... or maybe they'll be nobodies. The Brewers best prospect seldom line up in the same order they were drafted(even immediately following the draft). But that pick, between 1 and 2 or 2 and 3, they're both... VERY valuable.

I am skeptical teams will view him as a CFer and... I believe teams will want him. I just think it'll be closer to half that 90M.

There's... really not much of a comp to Hoskins. Grisham's numbers the previous 3 years were .191/.298/.353 with a .651 OPS. and his value was driven almost entirely by his defense(what little value he had). He was basically Blake Perkins except... he's not capable of playing CF any longer... before this year which is a pretty extreme outlier. Compare that to Rhys Hoskins...who isn't really relevant here his worst year of his career before tearing his ACL was the year before. His career numbers in Philly- .242/.353/.492 and .846 His WORST, the year was the year before he tore his ACL -.246/.332/.462 794 OPS and hit...33 HRs. He was a homegrown and fan favorite for a big market team That he'd have led the Brewers in HRs or SLG doesn't mean he's worth 20M+ next year(or 15M over 4-5 years). Jo Adell, Taylor Ward, Jorge Polanco all had better SLG and I wouldn't pay any of them. In any event, anything near 4/90 for Grisham is... kinda silly. The Yankees CAN afford to piss money away, but with Dominguez, Spencer Jones, Jazz Chisholm. I'd sign Bichette and move him to 2B and Jazz to 3B or the OF before paying what you know is going to be a bad deal to Grisham.

He could have made that case based on his numbers... no doubt about it. But I can't believe anyone would have come... even close to that. 4/60 would have been the higher end. Maybe I'm just more skeptical of him, but I believe when you get into the post-season, vs better hitters, if you have ONE plus pitch... even a plus-plus pitch, the best change up in the game, hitters can lay off it enough. Hader, Diaz... Clause? Worth it. Williams? I'll take Megill or Uribe(though Uribe looks like he may actually be able to put up similar numbers).

They have to have. They aren't just rolling the dice on 22M.

Under .200 the previous 3 years. I'm just saying... 4/90 for a good defender who is probably going to hit closer to .200? But, I do think Tucker will get 500M and that would have seemed absolutely insane to me just 2 years ago. Tucker's great. He's a 5 tool guy... 500M?

Who forgets that? That directly led to the shoulder injury and surgery. I don't think people have forgotten about that.

I think some of these are... a bit silly. Michael Soroka 2/23, Grisham... who hit under .200 4/90?

You read that elsewhere I take it? That's... really weird. Weeks was always one of my favorite players. I liked the guy. He wasn't the star he was supposed to be, but he'd take a ball off the face and stay in there. None of that handbags crap when there were fights on the field. I remember seeing him get upset once or twice and... it took a lot to get him there. He doesn't strike me as a great Manager. Plenty of current or past players do... Weeks feels too tight.

We're all good! Sports debate is boring is everyone is in agreement... Also, I hadn't actually looked, but Mis should be easily safe from Super2. June 12th, I think they gave themselves enough of a buffer. If the Brewers desires to extend Misiorowski were true, that would help lower the number(the post-season performance may just push it back up).

If he were to accept... which I don't think he would. The 10M is already there next year and it was for this past year. 1 year QO would be the best case scenario. Turns it down, you get a pick, if he doesn't, you only have 1 year.

Yeah... that's actually really far off from Homer's 3 hyperbolic 7,8 and 10 minute drives.

I think Jenkins is likely gone as well. Or back on a very different contact.

Packers moves. -This team has some holes but also a LOT of talent. They've also failed to really play at a high level week after week. Youth can't be an excuse any longer. Nobody cares if they're the youngest team. Not when you trade multiple 1sts for the "final piece." Some moves I've seen thrown around. 1-Asante Samuel Jr(FA), the extremely talented young CB who looked like he was on his way to becoming a star, but then dealt with injuries, he was just cleared to play. If you got him now, give him 3 weeks or so to get ready to play. He could be a real difference maker and he won't cost much, but there will likely be multiple teams interested and the Chargers would probably be the favorite. 2-Quinnen Williams. DT Jets -I saw a rumor the Packers were interested. Jets want a 2nd Rd pick. He's not a run stuffer. He's MORE of a Devonte Wyatt type DT. He's an All Pro caliber player and he's expensive. So... there's that. He's one of the best DT's in the league and it's hard for me to envision the Packers being able(more like willing ) to spend at least one day 2 pick+ the large AAV for another defensive player... but he would make this DL the best pass rushing DL in the league. Hypothetically, being able to line up with Gary, Wyatt, Williams, LVN and Parsons roaming around, that create havoc. If our defense was struggling and we were one impact player away, I'd gladly make this trade. But maybe you buck the trend, make a strong area(pass rush) stronger and try and win like the Giants with Eli did. 3-Denzel Ward CB Browns- I don't see the appeal that others do. He's highly paid and he plays with THE best front 7 in the NFL and he's struggled. The rumor is a day 2 pick for him as well. I'd personally pass. 4-Riq Woolen CB Seattle- He's another freak. Seattle doesn't overthink it, they see a guy like DK or Woolen in the 3rd or 4th, they take them. Like Metcalf, I didn't think Woolen would be quite agile enough to be a star... which he was for a stretch. He's struggled lately. At 6'4 with great ball skills, he could be a HUGE upgrade and is a pending FA. I'd guess a 5th rd pick. If you want to play Cover 2 most of the time, a long corner with his ball skills would be a damn good option. In Man, he's been good as well knocking WRs off their routes. 5-Mark Andrews A pass catching TE to replace Tucker Kraft(or to be our #1). I think this is less likely with the ACFN still up for grabs and Baltimore still somehow alive despite a 1-5 start, but at 3-5 with 2 games left against Pitt, they're still well within striking distance. For people who think the Packers season is going bad... and I'm among them, it does help to look around from time to time. Baltimore started the season blowing out the Bills for 3 quarters, lost a 1 point game, lost 4 of their next 5, Lamar was out. Now getting healthy, they're in the race. I'd guess he stays put... and then joins the Chiefs to replace Kelce after this year as Baltimore has a young dynamic TE in Likely to replace him. 6-T'Vondre Sweat DT Tennessee Sweat would give the Packers a monster vs the run. 6'4 366 pounds. He's been a stud vs the run since day 1. He's also picked up 2 sacks this year, but I wouldn't expect much pass rush. At most, he'd be a guy who could collapse the pocket a bit, but his primary use would be to re-set the LOS and give Quay and Edge Cooper more free running lanes to make plays. Run stuffers generally go cheap. He's 2nd year run stuffer who went 38th in the draft in 2024 and has exceeded expectations, but the new leadership may see a run stuffer as a waste on a team looking to pick in the top 4-8. The BIGGER upside, DT no longer becomes a need in the immediate future. Wyatt, Wooden, Brooks, Brinson have all played very well(relative to expectations) and look like a good core moving forward. If you don't add a DT, you'll need to address that in the draft. So you can justify this pick and use of draft capital as he would have 2.5 years of team control. It would give you more time to develop Brinson... who has looked very good. And you could probably part ways with Stackhouse who... I don't really see making a positive impact on this team. 3nd Rd pick+2027 5th for Sweat and a 2026 6th rd pick? 7-Jackson Powers-Johnson, OL, Raiders Hey, the last two are obvious. The Packers OL sucks, Jackson Powers-Johnson played on the OL... he didn't suck last year. He's fallen out of favor. He'd give the Packers a big, physical center. You could move Jenkins back to OG, let Jordan Morgan focus on playing OT... and let Aaron Banks wait for a chance to play when healthy or... just wait until they eat a big cap hit after this season, admitting their mistake. ~25M cap hit, ~20M dead cap next year. So sunken money. Haven't a clue what it'd cost to get him, but again with limited resources, if they think he can start, it would be trading a pick for a player on a rookie deal who could step in right now. Again, you need to address OL in the draft. This would just be using that pick to get a cheap player with a couple more years of team control. 8-David Njoku, TE, Browns Another guy on an expiring deal and bad team... with a young player replacing him. He's TE 2 in Cleveland right now behind a rookie from Bowling Green and has said he wants to finish his career in Cleveland... and Cleveland is reportedly looking to add talent(Why the hell they're looking to add players when they'll be using the 43M cap credit to put toward cutting Deshaun Watson after this year and are a bad team is confusing to me, but the Browns are gonna...well, their uniforms are brought to you by dude wipes. That's how the Browns are won. Named "the Browns," sponsored by something to wipe your ass and they moved on from Baker Mayfield when he was hurt just so they could reset the QB market. 6th-7th rd pick Others Rasul Douglas-Bring back a familiar face. He's a ballhawk. He's also physical and he's on a 1 year deal for Miami. He could likely be had for a conditional 7th. Alonte Taylor CB NO-Guy sounds like a slot CB to me. Also...not great this year, but the Saints don't have a very good front. They do play hard though. Dennis Allen may have been given Chicken Feces, but... at least the Chickens are trying hard. That's... really the minimum you should expect, but when competing for a top 5 pick, it's not bad). Conclusion-The Packers have 11 picks after trading away their next two 1st rd picks as well as a late 2027 pick. This is a Super Bowl or bust type of year, but I don't think they want to go into draft with 3-4 picks and without a 1st or 2nd rd pick. Especially with several FA's on their way out(though they could get some draft pick compensation as a result). IF you could get Woolen for a deal similar to the Titans recent trade of McCreary, I would do that. A 6th for Woolen and a 7th. Seattle has a lot of players to pay and he's struggled. These players are always traded for less than I think, so... mcCreary had been better, so a similar package makes sense. McCreary would have made more, but that ship has sailed. Sweat- I'd LOVE to add a young DT who can play the run like him... and who can collapse the pocket, helping the edge rushers and off ball LBers, but I wouldn't offer more than a 3rd. If you think he's the type of player you need to be able to get past run heavy teams like Philly and Det though...it may be worth it. Jackson Powers-Johnson -Cheap rookie contract and he played well last year. With Jenkins likely gone next year and hopefully Banks... save money and upgrade this year. Last year however, as a Center, Powers-Johnson was one of the better Centers in the league as a pass blocker and a run blocker. Moving Jenkins back to Guard, Powers-Johnson in at Center, that may be the trade that has the biggest impact. Any trade has to come with a better game plan on offense, a shift in ideology and more disciplined play, but this team is good enough to win a Super Bowl. They're also... more than capable of getting beaten by anybody and bowing out in the WC round. There is NO player out there that's going to make this team a Super Bowl players. We have the talent we need. Player for player, position for position, we're good enough save for some tweaks. That's what this is. None of these players are All Pro's(or aren't expected to be). But they could shore up some areas and when we figure our own problems out...could help. Just remember how bad the 2010 team looked early on when they fell to 6-6 or even the '23 team when we all thought we'd get a top 5 pick and instead put up nearly 50 on Dallas and was a FG away from beating SF. So as far away as they look now... they're not. As great as they looked vs Detroit... they weren't that great either. They're the 3rd or 4th best team in the NFC(Philly, Det, LAR...4th I'd say) and within reach of any of those 3 and bad enough to get run off the field by any of them. @LouisElyyou had some guys you wanted to see. I'd just thrown out some of the names I'd seen on the block, some of whom were connected to the Packers others just...rumored to be traded. I wouldn't be trading a guy like Sweat, but new regime, terrible team, maybe they want their picks back. I hate trading more picks, but if a a 3rd, 6th and 7th would get us Sweat, Powers-Johnson and Woolen, I'll go full Rams and go for it.

Men, Ben Sims would be AWESOME to have right now! Can you imagine how many times we could throw the ball 4 yards behind the LOS and have Sims, Musgrave and then a WR out there and completely catch NOBODY off guard, but lose yards on a play! Seriously... I'm building off this and making this a mini "things that are bugging you," thread. THAT... that is bugging the hell out of me. You can get the ball in the WRs hands in other ways. You can STILL run that play, but Jesus, what are you setting up? A fake where someone jumps a route? It's gonna work... or the next time the CB is just going to pick the ball off and go the other way with it. They're basically there on time as it is. Anyway, it sucks losing Sims. I get why they did it. They were concerned with McManus' injury and they just extended him and they didn't want to lose Havrisik. They were hoping for a draft pick for him. But now is the time to make the decision. I'll even allow that you couldn't predict Kraft would get hurt and you thought you had depth and weren't using Sims... though even then, Musgraves has had injury issues... I do feel... "better" that we have him to fill in. Kinda in the way I'd feel better if Parsons got hurt knowing we had LVN to fill in... which is to say a good back up but in no world is he stepping up and replacing what you lost. McManus is 1-5 from 40-49. Those have to be gimme's in the modern NFL. One was a block. Not his fault(two may have been blocks but I can only remember the Browns). Also a blocked PAT. Havrisik was in a groove. 61 yards. But maybe they don't have confidence in him and are worried about McManus re-injuring his quad? Only explanation. That and they were hoping to trade him... which means, they should probably just go with him. You get 8 players who can come back from IR. We've used 2 designated to returns on Jacob Monk and Marshawn Lloyd(any day now). Reed will get one... hopefully. That'd have been 4. So you'd have to be careful, but you get 2 more for the playoffs. I don't think it's a case of McManus worrying or looking over his shoulder. He's signed a contract. He'll get paid... and he'd be one of the first calls if another team needed one. He's just missed them.

Most importantly... in this context, they're not at ALL directed toward you. Good article... and those are just the facts. Writers use DRS and OAA and they have to choose what they rely on. I was SOLELY critiquing the metric, grades...however they arrived at it. Again, it was fair and I thought it was pretty clear they were worse this year. Last years team was incredible defensively... particularly with Bauers at 1B(you really talk about throwing guys over there, but you appreciate the impact a really good defender at 1B can make). I thought(just eye test) you could see some players regress a bit. Turang... still an outstanding 2B, but he played a little SS. Seemed like he was pressing. Didn't play great there. Also some errors or misplays I didn't see last year. Contreras, 3B as a position. Ortiz was outstanding last year. Durbin was awesome for what we expected, but I wouldn't say over the course of the year he was a great 3B, just great relative to expectations. Last year Adames was the "anchor" pulling our defense down per DRS and... that was another I thought was silly, but still, I thought maybe that was Ortiz getting to so many balls... as is the rule at 3rd, if you can get to it, it's yours. And it really hurt Adames who may be at his strongest going back in the hole, backhanding a ball and then firing it to 1B. I love what our defense looks like going forward. Almost every prospect SHOULD be able to handle their position defensively save for maybe Wilken, Adams, possibly Fischer if they're 3B. But they should be 1B/LF and Lara, Pratt, Quero, Made, those three at 1B... elite defense should be a staple of Brewers baseball for a while.

First, on this part... this is not the most mature response, but this is stupid. I know, I know... "the eye test" is a bad way to judge a player when you have data, but... if you watch every game like most of us on here do, does anyone truly believe Ortiz was a NEGATIVE defender? Ortiz is top ~10-15 in OAA... and I just watched him enough and I've seen other SS's. He's in that upper tier. I'll buy(barely) Chourio as he's still developing in the OF. He gets poor reads at times and doesn't know when to come in or play it safe(tends to play it safe). I think he's at his best in CF running down balls in the gap. I think it's easier to get a read on the ball. I'd even buy Collins. But Ortiz? As for the Gold Gloves, I don't want to say it's a good thing no Brewers won one, but... it kinda is. Gone are the days of a guy starting 28 games at 1B and being named the Gold Glove winner because he was a really good hitter. The players that won them deserved them.

I know this is all obviously a joke, but... do you think there's any chance we'd make that trade? I would REALLY be curious to see if we would. Take Ohtani with the promise of paying him 680M? Someone on here said the Dodgers reportedly recouped his whole contract in the first year with sponsorships or corporate deals(and I decided to just Google it so I didn't have to rely on "someone said.") https://www.si.com/mlb/dodgers/onsi/news/dodgers-made-back-shohei-ohtani-s-entire-700-million-contract-in-his-first-season-report I wonder how big that'd number be with the Brewers. Ohtani is THAT big in LA, but surely the Dodgers already had massive deals. Again, just curious what people think as we know this is not going to happen. Aside from a NTC and being the biggest star in the world and Melvin Hernandez on his way to be the Brewers next(and only) homegrown HOFer... we'd have to take that, right?