BrewerFan

Seems rather obvious they don't believe that. I don't think there's much illusion about Pena being a SS at this point and he hasn't even thrived at HiA. Which isn't a knock it's just we're talking about very young players. As for Pratt not "proven he can hit AA pitching," he was above league average as a 20 year old GG Shortstop. I've never been one of the best in the world at anything, but... if I were, I'd probably not worry about who is ahead of me. If I was an athlete the caliber of Made, I'd think... I'll force my way in. Or maybe like Manny Machado and Jackson Holliday and countless others, they can think, 'I'll become a GG caliber player at 3B.' I don't know how you can pull the rug out on a 18 or 19-year-old... when there's no rug beneath them. We have high hopes for them, but they haven't proven anything yet. I am fairly confident if Jesus Made is an elite defensive SS(which is in question) and he can hit like we hope he can, we'll find a spot for him. I don't think that'll be a problem.

He's a clown. Glad William is nothing like him... at least outwardly.

Not yet, but they've certainly made an effort to correct that. You still have guys like Lara who will be like that, but the whole next wave of talent is largely comprised of guys who hit for power... at least relative to their position. Pratt as a SS... I think he's going to hit for some power. It's hard for me to imagine a guy with his frame and swing won't be able to develop some, but... we'll see. Front office has been incredible.

Ahh... I thought he was first hit in STing and they cleared him, then the WBC. I guess it being vs the Nationals... muddied it a bit, but doesn't make much of a difference. As for risk, I would think the risk would be with pitchers. In the WBC, you're facing pitchers who probably have better control and would be less likely to hit you. A year or two ago, having Mis throwing in STing would have bee terrifying. It sucks, but I'm not upset with the WBC. I thought this one was exciting and was great for Baseball. I hope we don't have pitchers in it next time around(selfishly), but I wouldn't be mad about having 4-5 players from Chourio, Made, Fischer, Pena, Quero... hopefully more who are worthy. Tyler Black perhaps? Still clinging to some hope he develops as a LHed 1B/OF.

Of course they're not starting Patrick on 3 days rest, right? The... what, 11th game of the year? Why would you consider risking it. Gasser should get the start and... Crow is on the roster(40 man) also, so if you could make two moves, that may be a good idea. It's a long year, we're doing alright without Chourio(who I thought was on the verge of a breakout year), Vaughn, Priester, Henderson limited. There's just no reason to push it with any of our young arms. This was pretty much the ideal place for Tobias Meyers... but despite the results, watching Sproat, the risk-reward on that trade looks like it could be a huge win for us.

I... literally JUST addressed this exact question(Also, I referenced ONE players contract, Romeo Doubs). LOL... ok, and? Where did I compare it? Are you actually reading what I'm saying? I made the point that cherry picking trades is meaningly and very clearly said... I never cited Watson. So where did I "compared Adams' first trade" with anything Watson? The POINT was a player who is on a bad team and requesting a trade AND expensive has less value. I'd would have said bringing up Mike Williams last year for a 5th rd trade as an example of why Herman is so far off on the prospective trade values of the two players I mentioned is "laughable." But I just stated the facts. He was on the 2-8 Jets and he had 12 catches in 10 games and he still went for a 5th rd pick... so... you're reading things that aren't there. The Raiders saved 80M+ in future salary with Adams, 12M immediately and... he posted "free me," and he was 32 years old. So not Point-If a player demands/requests a trade+expensive+bad team=less trade value. Every player you cited fit at least two of those and most fit all 3. The Packers players don't fit any of those criteria.

Yeah... but you just made it that much more expensive to cut him next year. His dead cap next year would have been 13. Now it's 26. So... you just got done signing him to this contract to begin with coming off a roughly average career with the 49ers(using PFF metrics, I didn't watch him enough in SF to know what he looked like). You choose to keep him after he was injured and bad and you are paying him another 29M for this next year in new cash. None of it makes sense, but it'll make less sense to me if he plays better next year and then they still cut him despite not saving salary cap space.

I think they'll do something else in Free Agency... and I still won't understand why they did ANYTHING to that contract. You're already paying him 20M for next year(new money)... and now it's 26M cap hit to get out next year. I thought they should have cut him... though I didn't think they would. Restructuring was the worst case IMO. Yeah, but they could have done several other moves and still not done anything with Banks. He was both bad AND hurt last year. He was the last guy I wanted to see restructured and I'd have been more than fine moving off him, going and getting one of the 4-5 quality veteran OGs on the market and been free of his cap hit next year. Hope I'm wrong on him and hope @JosephCis also wrong... I don't see any sign he's been worth 26M last year.

I'm not "confusing" anything. They both speak to value and I told you where who I was citing. You're picking players who were traded because they demanded a trade on bad teams or had character concerns, large contracts. Chase Claypool was traded for a 2nd. Davante Adams was traded for a 1st. George Pickens is not the closest to Watson... Pickens was a nightmare in lock room for the Steelers. I don't recall Watson posting "free me" two years before a hypothetical trade(I also didn't cite Watson). You're conflating players with a WHOLE lot of other issues. The Raiders were terrible and Adams was expensive. Mike Williams? He was on a 2-7 Jets team that was trading everyone, Williams in 9 games that year had 12 receptions... and they got a 5th for him. I don't think those examples show anything.

Who got caught up! Literally everyone in this thread mocked the trade!

I don't think the draft is going to add anywhere near 10M(or even 7M) this year. The 2nd rd pick is a 1.6-1.7M cap hit. Even there, you're not just adding a new 1.7M, it's only ~600K added to the cap if you're replacing a player with just 1 year experiance. Once you get to the later rounds, it's only a few hundred K. In total I think the draft is only going to add 2-3M total. I do think Walker's paltry deal with the Panthers makes another similar signing possible. They were very clearly trying to ensure they'd get the maximum of 4 comp picks. Signing a FA who hasn't been released is basically like giving up a 6th rd pick at this point for Rasheed's pick. I'm sure they'd do that. Cam Jordan's very good vs the run. I think his 10 sacks were a little deceptive last year, but still a very good player. Also only 2 games missed. I don't see us going after Decker. It sounds like they like Morgan at LT, they thought he was a better LT last year, but needed to constantly be plugging holes at OG, RT. That's why I'd look at Zietler or someone on a one year deal. Zach Tom coming off a torn patellar tendon is terrifying. That's an injury that players can be slow to recover from. Zietler can still play OG at a reasonably high level, Benton looks more like a future RT than OG. I don't think much of Stackhouse, but Brinson looked really solid last year in limited snaps and seems to fit Gannon's scheme well. I'd bring back Treyvon Diggs, assuming he'll come back for ~5M for a year and look to add to the IOL.

Wick... Reed OR Watson? I guess that depends on what you consider "value" but I think a 2nd is pretty much the floor. The 2nd and 4th I was using Andy Herman's suggestions. But you did just see the deal that Romeo Doubs signed, right? He doesn't have a fraction of the impact that Christian Watson does. Or Alec Pierce. Compare his impact to that of Watson's(even with the missed time).

I guess I don't get why they're doing this when a guy SHOULD probably be playing a year in AAA yet. Is this more like a 7 year deal with 2 TOs and... then you get into the whole 2027 lock out. It's just a weird time for me, but, again, I'm such a fan of these moves that I'm not going to question it too much.

It makes having a NT, a true NT more important. Hargroves an be that guy, but he didn't like the way he was used in Minnesota last year. He wants to rush the QB and be allowed to get up field. I like the idea of being able to use Parsons in different ways. Also, someone like Collin Oliver... there was a whole lot of excitement around him the year before he got drafted. That could help him quite a bit... although in some schemes the edge has more responsibility as they have to set the edge where as DEs don't always have to in a 4-3, the Will or Sam does. The Dime defense... my guess would be it'd skew toward more big nickel with McKinney, Williams, Bullard MAYBE Oladapo or maybe just 3 Corners on the field with Cooper. I think we're going to have a good defense, but it'll come down to Parsons getting back to 100%, Wyatt... both getting back to 100% and playing like he was early last year, Hargroves being closer to how he played when Gannon was last year his DC and LVN building off last year. If we're not dominating with our 4 man front... there are going to be a LOT of Joe Barry references. And while I despised Joe Barry, I do think if you gave him Parsons, developed Wyatt, Hargroves and then the fliars that are Karl Brooks, LVN, Sorrell, Oliver and whoever else we sign, he'd have been fine. I'm REALLY hoping we're in on Calais Campbell. I love a front of Parsons, Wyatt, Campbell and then LVN. Until the big man stops having elite seasons, no reason to stop believing.

Keith Law studies them... I'm not sure how good he is... but he does. 34 pounds IS a lot. You can swing 5-10 pounds based on when you weigh in, what you've done. Your age... 17-18-19, you naturally fill out. I'm very glad they didn't say 34 pounds of muscle. I hear things like that and I roll my eyes. Nobody has added 34 pounds of muscle. You add 15 in a FULL year when going through puberty and you're an outlier. But you can still fill out. No picture of him that I've seen has looked the last bit pudgy. He's got a thick based and rear... which is good(or not bad). And he still looked... quick. I didn't see any bad weight. I also didn't have those old fat calipers we used every year of HS and College to do our body fat, but... I think he'll be fine. 34 more pounds and... I'd be a little concerned with have a future DH, but for the time being, looks like he's just developing.

What writing though? A year ago, he was a sub 700 OPS 2B with elite defense. I would suggest the Brewers would have been every bit as reticent to extend Turang as Turang. I've been driving the Turang Bandwagon for years. I love the guy, I'd love to see him extended. I'm not sure I buy the power, but I think he's just a Molitor type "Ignitor" for this team+the defense. Made can play 3rd, Pena can play CF. Jett Williams can... be a super utility player. Or we can let Turang leave in 2-3 years via trade. That's always a balancing act. This Pratt move is... really genuinely confusing to me, but not in a bad way. Just in the sense... I don't get why you do this when he's in AAA. Is it because they're worried he's about to go off? Do they have some plan for Ortiz if he starts out hitting well(I would be opposed to that).

Well... this move here is different than any organization. We're giving a player an extension before they're even MLB ready. That's a pretty strange move. I thought we'd keep Pratt in AAA all year long unless he forced the issue... and then Made would have been the player I'd have thought they'd extend IF they would have made a contract like this. Though I wasn't even considering this.

Yeah, he was also constantly behind in the count. The pitch to Montgomery was almost a get me over FB. 94 MPH sinker that... didn't sink IIRC. Yesterday was a bad outing, but I'm not going off the results. Skenes went 2/3rds. It's the stuff... which I think we're in agreement. The upside is clearly there. He needs to refine it, but I'd really rather have the young arms we have than a Quintana as the #3/4 arm. And he's really the #4/5 with Woody throwing 5th.

He'd have been in my top 15 guesses, but near the bottom! You usually don't extend a guy who... isn't really ready to play at the MLB level! I mean, I think he could give you what Ortiz did last year(mostly)... but this type of deal? What the hell, I'm all for extending as many young players as possible. I honestly think if you sign as many young players as you can to these types of deals, even if you get a few who don't live up to their potential, you still come out on top... I mean, if it's reasonable. I think Pratt's floor is a very good defensive SS/3B who can hit for some power and put up a ~700 OPS. That's a fairly negative outlook, but... that's worth this deal. I doubt the Brewers believe that's the player he's going to be. (By the way, a player I forgot was Quinn Priester... I wouldn't be shocked to see him extended for ~6/45+2 TO and some incentives based on IP and... maybe CY Voting, top 10-15).

Well.... the REAL icing would have been if he was still in the system! I hated that trade, but the ensuing two years kinda vindicated that move(not that Frankie Montas was a resounding success or two games is proof of anything). A RHed power bat who can play CF/RF... would certainly be nice to have, though I don't expect that type of foresight from Marty McFly's Baseball Almanac. Maybe a bat we can look at later in the year when he comes back down to Earth a bit? One area we're not deep would be RHed OFers who can hit for power. Or maybe he just has a really nice story to start the year. He was certainly boom or bust. I thought it'd take 1000 PAs... but I also didn't think he'd be as bad as he was early on. He wasn't playable even at AAA until last year with the Marlins. It'll be interesting to see which way he'll go from here. Can he become a viable power threat or just a flash in the pan.

They're... talented. They're not a well run team and they don't have the culture yet, but the talent they have? I've said that's at team I'd love target later this year(or earlier). That reliever Taylor... he did us some favors by not just throwing 102 in the upper half of the zone and asking us to hit it. Dominguez is a good pitcher, but... I just think we'd make him better, and Hicks, his ball moves to much, it just feels like small tweaks. Still, certainly not the Dodgers, but power arms, good young players. They're a team I think could win 75 games if they have the right staff and could get these pitchers on track. -But, more importantly, I don't care what Sproat's actual results were today. He looked like he's got the stuff to be a top of the rotation type arm. A #2 or... even an ace. He gets good movement. If he can just get ahead in the count... I think he could be a really good arm this year. I'm feeling a LOT better about that Peralta trade after today... which I realize is counterintuitive and I felt good about it to begin with, but I'm wondering who was the priority from the Brewers side, Sproat or Williams?

Turang if you can get a reasonable Marte-esque type extension(not quite Marte given Marte was closer to FA, but 7/90+2 TOs... maybe). Misi- I'd 100% do right now. 8 years 100M 2 TOs for 25M per. Yeah, I know he's a pitcher... and I'd still do it. People use deGrom as the "what if" in terms of healthy. Look at his first 8 years. Made- Mis is 1A, Made is 1-1- I'd give him a Chourio type extension... though I imagine it'd be more expensive. Maybe 8/80+2 TO at 20M with a 10M buyout and MVP, incentives, give him the chance to earn 8/100. Contreras-I'd float a 5 year 75M extension... but I think we're too close to FA for that to be viable. Frelick would be a contingency plan as I don't think Turang or Mis will sign. American players are less likely to... though with a pitcher like Mis, still gotta try IMO. He looks like he's just going to keep getting better. Ultimately, I suspect Made will be the most likely and we're too late on Contreras and probably on Turang. I'm also just not afraid to pay a guy into his 30s. I'm afraid to pay him into his mid 30s or late 30s, but 32-33? Not at all a concern. Uribe-I'd go 8/40+2 TOs at 12M AAV.

It is. And I thought Sproat was a... similar pitcher to a young Burnes. He was a little too similar to 2019 Burnes(in ONE start) but I just have absolute faith these guys will figure it out. Whichrowski, Kuehner, Hardin. And they're probably not in the top 10 yet in terms of starting pitching options. Still, I'd love to see a 1st rd pick on a high upside prep arm.

Yeah... but he's also got the prototype of pretty much every X WR you're looking for. I think the way he's trending, they may not get a chance to take him and if they do, it's likely only one(though maybe 2). You'd also really have to look at the WRs and figure out which one you're going to move. If you draft another WR, you're probably going to have to lose one. - Watson- I think he's in their long term plans as a focal point of the offense. Golden- We're not getting a 1 for him, so you'd be selling low. Reed- I guess a 2nd would be wise. Especially as the Brewers are likely to be in the FA market next year and thus less worried about pick comp, but without Doubs, I think Reed is a big loss. Wicks- Still hasn't broken through, but a really nice #4. Willing blocker. But pending FA. Maybe a 4th? Williams- 2nd year player. KR specialist, looked pretty good in contested catch catch situations(relative for a rookie). Sky Moore-Not really like the Hardman situation from last year. They gave him 1M in GTD money. If they like the kid... think he's a #1 or can play on the outside, even with the OL/DT/CB needs, they should do it. But in that scenario, Reed or Wicks are probably going to get traded. He does look like a tank though.

Yes. If a player was lost for the season, it would make Brewers fans feel much worse. But... he wasn't. Wasn't he hit in a STing game? Also, did someone say that they needed to play for their home nations to "motivate them to play well for their MLB employer?" Conversely, 1-I don't think you CAN tell a player they can't participate. 2-You start saying your players are off-limits and you're going to deal with more hard feelings. 3-Most important... again, they weren't lost for the season. Probably a good idea to remember their actual human beings who take a great deal of pride playing for their National teams... and reducing them entirely to "assets," in EVERY context, especially a young player you signed to be the cornerstone of the next decade, again, it probably wouldn't reflect well on the Brewers.