BrewerFan

Ok...literally NONE of that was "so confidence of Hiura's skills." I don't agree with most of what he's arguing, but can we PLEASE stop with this intellectually dishonest posts...or posts where we just make up what the last person said? Lets try what was ACTUALLY said; And you read THAT to suggest he's; SOOO confident in his hitting ability, lets see if he can come close to Ryan Braun in career hits? That is NOT what he was saying. HE'S SAYING HE'S AN UPGRADE OVER WHAT WE'VE HAD AT DH. That he should have gotten a chance earlier when Winker was putting up a sub .600 OPS, when Tellez went two months with an OPS of ~.450. When we couldn't get ANY real production from 1B/DH and yet he's changed his stance in AAA, done everything that's been asked of him, has drawn the praise of the Brewers coaches and yet hasn't gotten a chance. Bottom line, this is just getting silly. People are bending themselves into pretzels trying to do the "so what you're actually saying is," argument when what has been said re; Hiura has been very plain spoken. Now the caveat that us fans may simply not understand save for Moose is that they plan to keep him as a MiLB Free Agent at 1.1M and then they'll have him on the roster next year cheaper and hopefully have a chance to reset his career in Milwaukee. But that's new information. The "Well Urias, Tellez, Adames, etc.... hit X last year so just because he hit well last year doesn't mean HIura will," is as silly an argument as how the words were twisted in this post. Nobody has said he WILL hit better. They're simply pointing out 1-Brewers production at the positions he plays. 2-Hiura did hit well last year...despite OFTEN NOT being given the opportunity to come back and play the day following a walk off of a multi-hit day...while also not being allowed to hit vs RHPers and asked to hit LHPer when he has reverse splits. 3-He did what the Brewers have asked of him. He changed his stance, he's cleaned up his mechanics JUST like Yelich did and he's performed well in AAA. It's all the more frustrating when you see the ABs they've given Voight, Brosseau, Tapia, Singleton, WINKER, Daniel Robertson(an equally terrible 2B), Billy McKinney, Sogard, Smoak, Saladino, Shaw, Schoop, Sogard again, ALL players who got multiple opportunities despite the majority having less success than Hiura. I really like the FO. I think they're building the Brewers, particularly long term in the right way, but the rationalization sometimes jus gets to be a bit too often the top.

1-I don't know what your deal with "offending" Adames is, but he's a SS who's got a history of being a power hitter. They sat him the day before you posted this and they sat him the day after. 2-Torro, this one is really strange. He has two good games with about 2 months between each other and you're talking about a tiny sample size. How do you send down a GG caliber CFer who's crushing lefties or really any OFer for him? It's REALLY not worthy of nothing over 20 ABs, the last of which coming in a blowout vs a journeyman pitcher who only throws in blowouts, hasn't thrown since and was literally given away for future considerations. Toro hasn't been a good hitter over the course of his career and his K's are up, BBs are down, his Exit Velocity is down to a career worst. Again...I don't find any of those particularly important or relevant, but if you're going to use a 2 hit game in May and then a 3 hit game in June(which account for the majority of his hits this year...I guess it is relevant). 3-I really don't know how to respond to the cherry picking of players X have gotten noticeably worse. Adames got DRAMATICALLY better coming to Milwaukee. He's struggling this year. Tellez was a part time player who's OPS jumped 200 points when he came to Milwaukee. Urias was considered a bust, came to Milwaukee and had back to back 3+ WAR seasons(6.5 total) and this year he got hurt and couldn't move and they still flipped him for a starting pitcher. Yelich-20-21? Ok, so did they suddenly figure something out this year? Hiura gives you confidence, but it was their fault he struggled the previous two years? Last year we had the 6th best OPS in the NL. Our hitting was fine. Tyrone Taylor? This is where this feels really intellectually dishonest...he hit fine the last couple years...well even...for a 4th or 5th OFer. This year he's dealt with a relatively serious elbow injury he's playing through in addition to sporatic playing time and you think this is evidence they CAN'T develop hitters? I'm sorry, this sounds ridiculous and I'M-AGREENG with you that we should see Hiura(though the argument that we get to retain him and he's not a MiLB FA and they can bring him back after this season certainly makes his lack of opportunities make a lot more sense. The Brewers have guys who have struggled with injuries this year or just struggled. What about Monastario? He's been an exceptional bat off the bench. Frelick? Turang has been improving quite a bit since he got here. Contreras has handled the everyday catching duties and performed well. Yelich, again, can't blame the Brewers for his down years and then they don't get credit for a huge bounce back season. Do you not see how contradictory that is? Same with Hiura(which...I think it's silly to say he's proven anything other than he deserves a chance). I'm realizing this really doesn't have anything to do with Hiura(namely because you mention Adames far more than Hiura). I'm curious what they SHOULD be doing with Adames? It's really hard to keep track of your grievances beyond Hiura.

I don't think Trout is going anywhere(and I really doubt the Angels would pay for the privilege). He's still the best player in the game outside of Anaheim IMO. 6.3 WAR last year despite the injury. I think the Angels will want him there for his chase for 500, 600 HRs, maybe if he can stay healthy, 3,000 hits(that's a bit of a reach, but could easily have a Molly like resurgence. It's still well within reason. He IS injury prone, but still 96th percentile in the league in sprint speed and I think the same in barrel rate. So...hell, if we could get him, I'd be giddy. I'd have him in LF and DH about 50/50. As for Yelich, I'd just trade him to hopefully get a couple of nice, younger prospects, bust mostly to get out from the deal(as I said, deferred money and all). I'd definitely take Alek Manoah back in return. 25 year old #2/3 starter? I know it's never going to happen. Yelich is gonna be a Brewer until he's 37 and they'll pay him ~2.4M for about 10 years after that. And that's probably a good thing. If you get one or two more years like this, then just a good OBP or '21 Yelly, you are getting your money's worth. But my thinking wasn't to get MLB ready talent back. We've got that either here or arriving shortly. It was just that I'd rather have an OF of Frelick/Wiemer/Mitchell/Chourio with Perkins, maybe Carlos Rodriguez in a year or so and then a clean payroll. It's more about imagining what the 2026 Brewers could look like. Misiorowski, Peralta, Ashby, Gasser, Rodriguez...Uribe, Payamps, Peguero... Guys like Pratt, Bitonti, Yophery, Lara, Guilarte(who knows who else) on the verge, Frelick(CF), Quero(C), Chourio(LF), Wilken(3B), Wiemer(RF), Black(2B), Boeve(1B) Turang(SS). And at that time...the Brewers would(will) owe Yelich almost exactly what they paid Cain over the next 3 season. Nobody wants to give up a player like Yelly when they're rolling, but that's the only time you can make a clean break. And hell, maybe the Angels are willing to trade Nolan Schanuel and that prep arm they went way over slot to get Barrett Kent. If they're desperate? But I wouldn't do it for a player of comparable value or for Springer in return because...well, I like him and that'd defeat the purpose. What makes it less likely is that he's got a No-Trade Clause(Full I believe). But for Alek Manoah? Definitely. The Angels would be more likely. Imagine Yelich/Trout/Ohatni 1-3 in the lineup? The Angels are the perfect short term thinking type team. So are the Padres. I guess I'll let the likelihood of it happening go, but I'll still defend the position...and wait for a year or three when everyone says, "too bad we didn't sell high on Yelich!"

Damn...I didn't even think about this. This was a big enough problem as it stood, but...this will be devastating for some programs that are struggling to compete financially as it is. The gap between the top programs and the rest is going to be that much more pronounced in those non-revenue sports...and it's going to be pretty pronounced in the revenue sports.

I never heard what happened with Yeager. It was his elbow, then he's been out for the season, so I assumed TJ. I take it that's not the case or you wouldn't be hoping he'd be healthy to start next year. So any updates?

This is exactly what I'd do. And I could see that team having a Reds like season(I think the Reds will fade, but they've certainly got their fan base excited). I'm taking it a step further with regard to Yelich, but...my opinion has already been rebuffed on here with regard to that, so...I'll let that go😏

That's an interesting idea. I'd need Seattle to take on 50M of that though. At that point, is it really worth it? He won't be back 100% likely until '25. That'd give you two years... That'd be kinda planning for year 2 of Chourio, Black, 3 of Frelick, Wiemer...etc... But is Seattle gonna pay 50M to let him walk? I don't know...maybe Seattle wants to go all in on Ohtani and stay out of the luxury tax next year and the Brewers take his salary next year and the Mariners pay it the following two years? I'm not a particular fan of France. I think you've got a better version of him in Black. You're not getting a big defensive upgrade from France to Black, so...just roll with Black.

If the offer was actually Lara and Adams, I'm fine seeing them roll with Anderson/Monastario at 3B. Toro I guess later on. That's just too much. That's two potential top 100 prospects as early as next year for a rental. I'm skeptical they could operate at a 180M payroll. It makes all the sense in the world that they're setting money aside for the stadium(though if they're going to pay for the stadium, then they should own the stadium). I don't believe it's 40M a year...or rather if it is, I don't believe they'd ever just take that 40M and put that right back into the team. If this was true, I'd be disappointed about them being kinda luke warm on Chourio. I don't know, most of it just seems like things you could make an educated guess on while pretending to be an insider. It's been reported they haven't offered Burnes, Woody or Adames extensions until Willy was this off-season(at least not since 2020, wouldn't be surprised if they offered the Peralta/Ashby extension after '19). I doubt Mark A would like a friend coming back and sharing all this information. At BEST I'd bet this is a guy who is friends with Attanasio's kids(just...at best). Attanasio isn't in the day to day. He's kept apprised of the impending moves or the front office runs them past him, but as far as I understand it, he's taken a step back and isn't in on every trade call or FA move. So again, just benefit of the doubt, I'd buy this is what Mark A is getting, passing SOME of the information onto his son and then his son is asking and he's just kinda throwing BSing him a bit. "Yeah, they checked in on Ohtani and all the big names, too expensive, Burnes 1% chance he signs," which...that last part is truly breaking news!

I think you're a little off the mark with some of this. I'm as big of a Hiura defender as there is on here, BUT we should keep in mind...he was bad in Sept. He got regular ABs and he struggled. It feels like a lot of people arguing against Hiura getting ABs aren't doing so in good faith, so lets be honest. He was hitting the ball HARD...when he hit it and he went into a prolonged slump. It's ALSO true that he was poorly handled when he was hitting well in that he'd be benched the day after a 2-4 with a big HR. Toro...he has an exceptionally small sample size and a 3 hit game that I don't really think is all that significant. Who do you think we should have sent down instead of him? Adames-He's a Gold Glove caliber SS, he's kinda the heart of the team and there's nobody close to pushing him at SS. And I say that as a fan who's much higher on Turang than most others(I've said I think he's a Trea Turner-ish type player). But then you're scrambling to fill 2B. You COULD put Monastario there with Anderson at 3B and Santana, but Adames has a history and has earned the chance to be in there everyday. That said, they HAVE been sitting Willy more. I think he's just pressing, but I'd still start him everyday personally. I think you're connecting some things that aren't necessarily related. I also feel like questioning this puts you in the "anti-FO" group by some and they get a bit overly defensive(which is much why this is 14 pages long as those of us who want to see Hiura). The FO doesn't always get it right. They're not infallible. They make poor decisions. DFA Aguilar and Choi are two examples, but...just because they're generally run well doesn't mean they can't be wrong here or that you cant' question it.

Urias-Injured Adames-Still playing everyday Rowdy-Injured+still playing everyday when not on the IL(though still injured if you believe the forearm issue). Taylor-Injured+still playing regularly This argument would be exponentially more valid if the Brewers had given Hiura at bats and THEN he struggled, went down to AAA and people were asking why he's not getting ANOTHER chance. But that you just cited 4 players who the Brewers gave ample opportunity to seems to contradict the point you were making. And you will I'm sure reply by citing the defensive versatility those players provide(sans Rowdy, but the other 3 are either versatile or in Willy's case, elite). And then I'd point out we're talking about having him DH or play 1B where Rowdy isn't exactly Keith Hernandez himself.

Ahhh...THAT could make a lot of sense then. So they can give this guy half his salary, put him on the 40 and they'd have the ability to send him up and down? If that's the case, that'd just...completely change the level of annoyance I have when I think about him in AAA. That would make a lot more sense...I mean, it still doesn't seem like the confidence in Hiura overfloweth...ok.

Yeah, this is all just silly. There have been so many times we've put Winker out there or Tellez with a two month run of a .450 OPS or whatever. You're not bringing him back unless he earns a spot with the Brewers. They're not going through arbitration and paying him...probably a modest raise to ~3M unless you plan on playing him and why would they if they haven't this year when he's been in AAA when we've been just brutal at the plate. I guess it'll just be a emergency option if Canha gets hurt+Winker DFAed(which has to happen) and then Tellez keeps struggling or...who even knows by this point. But I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Hiura puts a .250/.330/.440 line next year wherever he goes.

Just...swap out Chicago for Gotham.

I mis-spoke, I meant to say had the record. I doubt that we've had 26 straight retired before...unless there was some extra inning game, but I doubt it. I was trying to think of what the record was. I'd assume you're right and 26 is now the record.

I wonder if Dave Bush has the record? I doubt it, but I seem to remember a few games he took a no-hitter late into the game. The 7th, 8th a time or maybe 2. Probably had walks. CC was another one, but I forgot he mixed in those 3 walks in that no-hit-1 hit game.

I care too much not to! The 15 minute lag time is proof of that...remember?

It means this is a ridiculous argument. And I replied 15 minutes after you. Sorry that wasn't timely enough for you and yes, that...must mean I care more than most. About what again? The Brewers won and the topic of the Game Thread is a game he didn't start and the two hitters who DID start in lieu of him, both went 1-2.

No, I'd guess not. Primarily because Chourio has been outstanding in the minors vs both Lefties and Righties. The term "mountain out of a molehill" mean anything to you?

Gawd is this a ridiculous argument. This is ALL over starting Wiemer and Taylor in the OF vs a lefty one game? On a night we won 12-1...this is what we're whining about on the Game Thread? And it's all because Counsell is petty and was questioned? Again, Game Threads...where you go when you NEED to be miserable! LOL...Frelick is a really nice hitter. I'm a huge fan and I have been for a while. The "best hitting prospect since Molitor or Braun though," that's a pretty short memory as well. Prince? Pretty good hitter. Obviously just before Braun. Hiura was also just a better hitter as a rookie. .303/.368/.570 .938 OPS and 19 HRs, 49 RBIs in roughly half a season. Can't we just be happy that Frelick is up, hitting well? Why does this have to turn into a pissing contest over not starting...what, twice since he came up? And the last game both Taylor and Wiemer went 1-2? The kid has been up for ~16 games and twice he came in around the 6th or 7th...and this is a problem? Also, NEVER saw anyone claim Wiemer was an "elite hitter." I DID see someone say he was an elite hitter vs LHPing...and he is.

He's played every game since he's been called up. I'm not really seeing the issue. "That's what happens when you question Counsell?" Who has questioned him and what is what happens?

You combine all that with the fact that he DID change his swing and this is a guy who had a 60 grade hit tool and performed at a very high level already at the MLB level. There was a time when it was so stupid obvious...before the deadline, Winker at a ~560 OPS, Tellez with that OPS in the ~400 or 450 range over a couple month period. There was just no reason to not give him a chance(irrespective of the fact that he was DFAed and not claimed, that's not a permanent excuse to do nothing when you've got an OPS 60 points below the 2nd worst team at the very "position" Hiura would be playing). And this is a team who is CONSTANTLY taking players with his type of history and picking them up on the cheap, trying to see if they can get that version of them back. But when we have one of our own, literally no downside to giving him playing time other than if it doesnt' work, he's not on your AAA team to help out in the playoffs, they leave him down there.

No, you really didn't. I think anyone not being obstinate understood what you were saying...even if they disagreed.

I guess my view is antiquated. I thought you wanted a full year in AA for the elite prospects, but after they moved Black up and then everyone else at AAA last year(Mitchell, Wiemer, Frelick)...that's just not the norm. And nothing is the norm for Chourio. What do we do when he hits .350/.410/.700 at AAA though? Gonna be hard to leave him down until June next year!

That's certainly optimistic Chuorio and Quero should be top 10-15 IMO. An extraordinary draft class could keep Quero out of top 10. Misiorowski still needs a lot of refinement. I thought his promotion was a bit premature and I hope they don't spend 3 years moving him from reliever to starter like Ashby. But he should be top ~20 just based on arm talent and results in A ball. Black will still be there. Frelick will graduate. What's really wild to me are the BB% of our farm system. That's obvious a major point of emphasis. Outside of Baez, pretty much everyone's at 10% and most are quite a bit higher. Chourio is at nearly 8%, but...when you're getting 2 hits a game and have an OPS of 1.260 or whatever he has since the futures game, not sure how much you want him to walk(I mean...10% would still be ideal). As for Adams, I haven't watched much. Again, just haven't seen Carolina play a lot, but every scouting report has him at a 30/35 run with MLB pipeline even saying he looks like he's "stiff." I'm thinking a lot of these scouting reports rely too heavily on the original scouting report and are slow to acknowledge any progress made or just that they missed on a tool set. I think Tyler Black's inability to play 3rd due to his arm strength is at least a little at play there, but he is a top 100, so maybe that's just my obstinance. I'll take Lara, Wilken, Bitonti/Pratt and Adams as top 100 at some point next year. Knoth maybe if he starts in full season ball, otherwise it may take another year. Guilarte has a chance if he can make the jump and Areinamo the same. I guess both the '22 DSL signees if they make the jump to full season ball, but there are so many MIFers that it'll be tough. We may push some guys at SS and 3B given the limited spots available and all the prospects we have popping up there.