BrewerFan

No...I don't think anyone suggested they would. Not much...which is why I said ~2M. He's making ~800K this year. How strong of an argument do you think you need to make to get 2M? 3.6 WAR his first 3 years seems like a strong enough argument. He could argue that Andrew Vaughn got 3.25 in his first year of arbitration despite a 1.3 WAR. Or Micky Moniak, another OF got 2M in his first year despite a .3 WAR. Or he could use Keston Hiura who got 2.2M to spend the year in AAA or Luke Voit who got roughly the same, both in their first years of arbitration, Rowdy Tellez who got ~2M and had a negative WAR through his first year in arbitration. I'm not particularly interested in getting overly pedantic, I simply said I'd bring him back one more year...and if he stayed healthy for a full year and performed over a full year as he has over partial years, I'd trade him as I don't trust him to do so regularly in his career, but to point a finer point on it, I think it's worth bringing him back given the relatively low-price tag. I hadn't made a hypothetical arbitration case for his arbitration hearing, just going off a rough number for a 1st year player eligible for arbitration who has performed pretty well combined with very poor availability. Just taking a low first year arbitration number and putting a round number to it. Sure...his value is upside and affordability. I think 2M is affordable and in line with his production and it doesn't feel like many people believe the Brewers are pinching pennies quite to that degree just yet that they'd risk non-tendering him in the hopes of getting him for near the vet minimum. So....1.5M, 2M...whatever the exact number is, he'll still have the affordability and upside.

Martinez is not an MLB caliber CFer. I don't even think he's a Corner OFer except in a pinch. He's started 9 career MiLB games in his career. He's a big guy who looks pretty good at 1st, but he's a 1B/DH only. His bat will have to carry him. I hope he hits well enough to get a shot... I don't think he's an upgrade over Bauers...though he is cheaper.

I'm keeping him another year...how much will he get heading into arbitration? 2M? That's worth taking a flier on for another year... but if he manages to have a....Luis Robert type season and stays healthy and puts up a great season in CF with an 800 OPS, I wouldn't hesitate to deal him. There's a difference between...say Brock Wilken and Mitchell. One has had fluke injuries, I think the other will deal with them his whole career.

Yeah, he said a lot of great things about playing with Giannis. He's a top 75 player of all-time who was overly loyal to Portland, went to the best possible fit for him on paper and then played poorly by his standards in Yr1 and in Yr2, he was fine, the Bucks just really needed that reliable 3rd threat and they didn't have it. The short time they had the kinda "big 4" on the court, the Bucks were a dominant team. Dame/Giannis/Middleton was +18.5 and +16 without Lopez. That was based on 600 minutes together, but we all know how that went. They needed a fluke season of good health and couldn't get that. I'm kinda torn as we probably should be trading Giannis, but the East is so wide open, it's really hard to blame the team trying to win and keep a player and person like him in Milwaukee his entire career. However, if he does decide he wants to leave, I can't imagine Turner would have hard to move at ~26M AAV and teams will still lineup for Giannis. I don't think Giannis can do anything that would make me too upset as a Bucks fan at this point. I'd totally understand asking out and I'd love the guy if he stayed in Milwaukee and played until he was 40... 2021 was something I never thought I'd see. Maybe I've got a lower bar than others.

Yeah, I remember that... it seemed like it was mostly Heat fans and they were reading his body language from being picked up at the airport. I didn't see anything from him...and even now it seems like it's just about him being able to sign with whoever he wants, doesn't have to worry about getting paid. I love Giannis, but...I'm confused how he can be upset about THAT. Dame is going to be 37 when he's back on the floor. I thought Turner had signed an extension with the Pacers, but the Bucks had been tied to him for years. Insofar as the Bucks should remain competitive, it's about as good of a signing as I could have hoped for from them. The Bucks are still missing their...Middleton or whoever. I wonder if Portis may be shipped out, hopefully with Kuzma for a scorer(Though who the hell is gonna want that combo for a legit #2). Still...good start to the off-season.

Well...of course, but given he had no GTD money left on his deal, I don't find it that had to believe... maybe it was similar to what Jones got from the Vikings(that's what he ended up signing for). I would guess given the position and the player, it'd be more. I don't think Jones leaves last year if the Packers don't sign Jacobs...so following that logic, I tend to believe they would have made more of an effort to keep Jaire. I thought 10M and incentives would make it worth it to the Packers. I definitely believe he took less to play for Baltimore but I don't know how much less. Either way, it's over so... if his Dad was lying or not, I don't know. I'd probably not want to sign and listen to bad information coming out and it's not like it came from the Packers. It was always pretty vague on their end.

There are plenty of guys who've gotten 6-7 or even a couple guys got 8 years with a RS, Olympic RS and Medical...plus Covid. Based on some of the medical RS's I've seen granted in other sports, unless he was injured late in the year, I'd guess he'd get it. If he got hurt early on, first half, he'd almost definitely get it.

60 grade bat, 6'2 185... probably more power in there and a future CF, maybe 2B. I wonder if you can get him much below slot, but sure. More 60 grade bats, the better. At 68, it's almost gotta be a guy in the ~150 range(or even later) that the Brewers have a firm(ish) price on heading into the draft, no? A Pratt, a Bitonti, a Letson, a couple 3B, an Adamczewski... 2023 was about as nice of a draft as you could have had. Levonas signing in '24 would have made that 2-year run that much more impressive.

There have been a number of time I've wanted the Brewers to take a pitcher in the draft... most often been wrong than right, but they've waited...and this uncanny ability to find these power arms later in the draft and get them to just add something here or tweak their delivery and they're performing better in AA than they were a year or two ago in College! Hardin is a big one, Wichrowski looks great and they have guys right behind them on their way up as well.

👍 I'd listen to any offer for any player... but it'd have to make sense. I still think Black can be a contributor to next years team...

Yeah, I think you nailed it. Suarez is the guy I'd be looking at, but...I don't want to give up a big piece for him and other teams may be willing to. SPing, nope. An upgrade would cost a lot, and I really like our starters. I like this team a ton. Durbin getting hot was huge, but this is kinda what I'd envisioned when the season started. I thought it'd be Myers and Woodruff vs Patrick and Priester, but those two can still come back. Hypothetically, the D-Backs ask for Hardin+Quintana for Suarez. A reasonable ask. I don't want to give Hardin up as I think the Brewers can turn him into a really good, if not TOR type arm and I don't want to trade away an 18-year-old we thought so highly of. If there's a pitcher who's struggling and they think could do better out of the pen, or whatever else, fine, but I like this team and think it's chances are decent in a short series.

It's a new one because nobody said that. He said he wouldn't trade him because his VALUE is low...due to injury to start the season and then limited time. Similar to how other posters said you'd be selling low on ALMOST everyone on that list.

My point being, it's not a foreign position to him. He's got SOME experience over there. And it's different than Braun. Yelich was moved to the OF because his athleticism was wasted at 1B. Braun's bat was wasted at 3B.

I can't believe this is even an issue. I feel like doing the Allen Iverson. 'We're talking about Spring Training? Spring Training? Not the season, not the regular season when everyone's shaken the rust of, but Spring Training? C'mon man! Spring Training!' Yeah, I agree, he'd handle it. I think he'd be a great SS. I think he'd be the same as Ortiz for the most part. I think he was always going to be the SS until the Brewers found a deal with Baltimore and then it just made more sense to keep Turang, 2 years in and the "Platinum glove winner," at 2B.

It's Turang. He'd be an elite defensive SS. You just slide in one or the other at 2B. I wouldn't add Zamora over Siegler in this scenario, but it's nice to have a SS/2B with his defense and at least the ability to walk and get on base ready to get called up. Not as nice as it'll be to have Cooper Pratt, Made, Pena, etc... ready to come up. But this is more about offense and Siegler is crushing it right now at 3 really important positions while Turang/Ortiz are pretty entrenched (though, Ortiz looked to be losing that grasp until recently).

Right... but Yelich, it was just the back and from everything I understand about the back issue, it's... resolved. But sure, it'd been flaring up since he was in the league. One issue he'd dealt with his whole career. A disc pressing on a nerve causing his back to tighten up, they shaved that disc and apparently that's not a big deal, but... setting all that aside, Yelich brought most of his value from his bat. He was a fine fielder, good base runner, but you could play him at 1st and if he was healthy, get good production there...and the thought being, you have Chourio, Yelich, Frelick...as well as Perkins at a time Weimer, another time Black, but a surplus of OFers. If you move Mitchell there, his bat doesn't really play and he's only slightly less likely to injure himself. I'm not sure given a full, healthy season Mitchell is more than a .750 OPS. He's kinda inflated his OPS the last two years after injury by having a hot stretch, but over a full year? All the K's and holes in his swing? I really hope it's just been bad luck as his bat IS good enough for an elite CFer. No doubt about that. But as a 1B? I don't think it's an upgrade on a half dozen other players we could throw out there next year. Oh, and Martinez is a Cody Bellinger type prospect who has just looked good for years and never really put it together, but has really come on this year in AA. I think you're right, Hoskins won't be back. Black could play 1st...I think. Vaughn won't make enough to non-tender IMO, Wilken got pushed back a couple months. But AAA to start next year, he likely wouldn't have gotten the call until June. Luke Adams though, he's gonna be just about ready. Maybe we'll sign someone. I'm also not giving up on the idea of Yelich to 1B. That was the position he was drafted at, it's the easist position, you'll need Contreras to DH more next year(presumably with Quero catching some or Siegler, Haase, whoever, but he should catch less). That may be pointless, but I still think it's worth a try as he enters his mid 30s.

Or the two guys crushing it in AA already? Adams is almost certainly headed for AAA...then Wilken should step their next year meaning both are on the doorstep. Siegler would be preferable to Mitchell.

I don't know what you get out of that. His value is then... his base running? I'm not sure he can hit still. Strikes out a lot. His injuries have come in all different ways. I think the risk... diabetes causing more injuries or making the healing process longer may have an impact or it's just bad luck. But when he's out there, I'm playing him in CF/RF/. That's his best position and he's a better OF than Chourio.

He'll stay unhittable in AAA, but he needs to add some more strikes in the zone if he's going to get MLB hitters in bad counts. I don't love the 92-93 MPH FB relievers who rely on a Change, MLB hitters can catch up to it, but I don't think they're giving up on Yoho, I think they're trying to work with him. We should also realize how little he's pitched. Though also...this wouldn't break my heart if I'm beind honest. I think we have enough power arms, if you can get a team to actually value Yoho, do it. I just don't think you'll be able to. They saw him, they have the same scouting reports. But in the event that I'm wrong (which I remember happening...2 or 3 times in the last.... decade or so) definitely do it.

They've been desperate for a 3B with a 60 grade arm who can put up a 900 OPS and hit 30 bombs. They drafted him in the 1st Rd. They've had to settle for imperfect players at some positions and sure, they value speed and athleticism, but they're not turning down a guy who is doing what Brock Wilken is doing. He was dominating the Southern League(not exactly hitter friendly). Leading the league in multiple stats...namely the power they've been seeking. And again.... they used a 1st rd pick on him. I think everything about him is what the Brewers have been looking for at 3B. I mean, I mean, if you could build a player in a lab, they'd have Arrenado's defense in his prime and...George Brett's BA, but... he should be a 4-5 WAR player. Luke Adams, basically a mirror of him without the big time arm, I'm quite sure they'll be thrilled to put two big guys who lack the elite athleticism along with our Catcher...whichever that may be, William, Quero, Dinges and our DH(who'll probably be Yelich). That leaves plenty of room for Turang, Made/Pratt/Pena/Ortiz, whoever at the keystone, Chourio, Frelick, Lara or whoever else is in the OF to play elite defense and steal LOTS of bases...

We'll find out the story later, but this sounds weird. If it's not a ruptured patellar tendon and not something structural, it is just a weird freak injury. If it was a ruptured tendon, he should have surgery now and hope to be back for next year. If it's structural, there's a much higher chance of reinjury if you don't have surgery. So...seems odd you wouldn't get it done unless they just don't know... We'll find out when we find out(probably next spring training) but I saw enough that I think he can help us at some point next year... BUT I'm not counting on it(luckily we have Durbin who looks like a good option as a utility player. Ortiz goes down, Durbin to 2B, Turang to SS, Turang goes down, Durbin to 2B. OF, I'm sure he'd be fine out there. Or maybe Wilken just starts as a DH. But, gotta get healthy first.

What do you suppose I even argued in this post? You went into a whole month by month split like I disputed his June Numbers were worse after he gave up 5ER in 2IP like you were making this highly disputed argument! Never said his monthly splits weren't worse...given he made FOUR starts and he gave up 5 ER in 2 of them...so you're kinda conjuring this argument up on your own. I asked a rhetorical question to a.... silly hyperbolic post from you. Nobody has said he is some "mythical phenom anchoring a major league rotation," If I WAS going to argue, I'd point out a rookie pitcher was simply wild. That you'll invariably see this at some point from Misiorowski. I'd also probably point out that he's playing for THE Worst Defense in MLB overall by advanced defensive metrics (DRS, UZR, etc.)... a point you think helps him somehow. I can't fathom how. BUT... as I'm not that invested, I made none of those points. It will be fun to follow the rest of the year. If Jopal bumps the thread, he had a bad outing. If someone else, probably a good outings! It's also certainly fair to say I was wrong and this thread IS really just a 'bad start=Jopal posts,' good start -Turbo posts'...

I have to concentrate to NOT write Cameron Crow...and I still write Cameron.

I mean, there's not a single player I wouldn't trade, but the assumption here is for a Suarez type, MAYBE a Nolan Arrenado(I don't know, pick a better 3B but not an elite one with a big contract on a bad team)... Wilken- No. This is what we've been waiting for. He'll start next year in AA with Adams most likey. The "Twins" are going to be big time impact players at the Corner IF positions. So that 40M we'll have paid Hoskins? That'll cover probably 8 years of both of those players(of course, they may be traded AFTER they're hitting 30 bombs due to the guys behind them). Cameron Crow- Yeah, I guess. If you get an impact player back, fine. I like Hardin who I think will end up being a stud, Wichrowski has plus stuff. Crow is a really refined pitcher, but not Jorge Quintana- No. I'm not interested in trading away top IFA who have just a year in the system. I don't think he'll be Made or Pena, but he's 19. You want to trade away the next Tattis Jr when he's valued as a mediocre propsect? You're giving him away as a throw in and you have no real idea what he'll be. By 22, he could be a top 40 prospect. I'll bet he's a guy who ends up being traded later on after he's played stateside if he's not produced, but the risk isn't worth the reward here. Carlos Rodriguez- Sure. He's a #3/4 in a good case scenario. I like him as a depth guy...but this is also why I don't see much of a return, that's his ceiling. Tyler Black- Sure, but I don't like it. I would rather let him play more in AAA and see a show next year as a utility guy. A lot depends on how much you think of Collins, but he's a guy who walks a lot, steals bases and plays hard. But if he's still valued at a top 10 in this system, I'm alright dealing him for a rental. Blake Burke- Nope. Again, you don't trade away guys who hit the ball with that exit velocity because you happen to have other players at the same position. Boeve, Black, Crow, Rodriguez(AAA or Manuel) Areinamo...there are others you may want to include, but...not young premium talent that we're not sure of. The Brewers may have seen enough of Quinatana and decided he's just WAY too far behind other Shortstops, I can't know that, but as a rule, I'd rather sell lower on those guys than miss one or two who break out. Also, who are we looking at? We don't need much. A guy like Suarez is what we need. I don't think it'll take blue chip guys to get him. The way Durbin is playing, I'd keep him at 3B and as we keep hitting the ball well...and we have so many pitchers, I like this team. Lets take our shot this year without losing a guy like Burke who could be a .300 hitter, 20 HRs and a plus defender. Yeah, the problem though, again, is that's how YOU end up making one of those, "how did you make THAT trade-type trades. We gave him 1.7M, we obviously thought highly of him, he's a really talented young SS and he has little value. If you want to value him as a top 5-6 in our system, fine. But I'm risk adverse with guys with that type of talent in the lower levels.

You really think he's the most promising? Hardin is in AA now, Wichrowski...a couple of guys with big fastballs and at least one more dominant pitch. I think he's got maybe the highest floor, but...I don't know about ceiling. But I would definitely trade Boeve before Wilken. I wouldn't touch Wilken. I'm looking forward to getting a combined .230/.370/.470 line out of Adams and Wilken combined and 60 HRs., I can't even imagine why you'd want to trade Wilken. It's not like he's Mitchell and injury prone, two fluke injuries...that's it. And he's in AA, leading the league in Walks(or behind Adams), SLG, OPS...HRs. We FINALLY get the guy YOU have wanted(this is to Harold) and now it's...ship him out for Suarez! Maybe in 1 year, 2, 3 when Pratt, Bitonti, Pena, Made all make it up, we can make a move, but...there's no reason to do it now.