BrewerFan

And during that time Suarez has had a .752 OPS and a OPS+ of 107 before having... again, an abnormally good year this year... where he's got OPS about 230 points better in AZ than on the Road. But if you think Hoskins getting hurt helped us this year... fine. It's less ridiculous than Chourio has been a disappointment or trading Pratt for Suarez or nobody wants to win except for bigred there.

The 21-year-old in the midst of a 19 game hit streak who's put up a line of .307./.347/513 since the Brewers were .500 has been a let down this year? You were being serious? I mean it, it's genuinely difficult for me to tell. How about just stop saying objectively ridiculous things and grossly mis-quoting what people are saying? That's... really all it takes.

Causation vs Correlation. I don't think getting back a guy like Hoskins, who incidentally has a higher career OPS than Suarez and has been more consistent than Suarez... is going to hurt the Brewers. Unless people really think Vaughn is the real deal. In which case... you still have a veteran RHed power bat off the bench.

You're not even trying to be taken seriously right now.

No, playing this game of "what if" isn't worth it. That's just... again, child like. It's not a real argument. If you could guarantee a trade would win a Championship, it'd be a pretty easy game, wouldn't it? But...obviously you cannot. And no, I don't like to "berate" people for having a different opinion, I can't stand the intellectually dishonest nonsense you keep spewing. A simple straightforward post saying, "Suarez isn't ENOUGH of an upgrade over Durbin to trade Pratt," a guy who is a top 35 overall prospect, an elite defensive SS who is 6'3, filling out and projected to hit for power. AGAIN, you read that as "He's not an upgrade." Don't play the victim... you know exactly what you're doing. And if you don't... well then I just feel bad for you.

Nope. Try again. I'd like to see if you can accurately articulate the point he made or if you're genuinely incapable of doing so.

I think it's ridiculous you'd give up ONE of them... And the magical, "if it won us a Ship," is child like thinking. No trade is going to guarantee anything OTHER than you're grossly overpaying here. Yeah, they haven't. You just struggle to comprehend what people are writing. For example, someone just said that Suarez wasn't ENOUGH of an upgrade over Durbin to trade Pratt and you came back incredulous and said "he's not an upgrade over Durbin!" So people write one thing and it goes in your head, gets filtered through your nonsense and comes back out something entirely different.

My God dude, can you read? Does he say Suarez isn't an upgrade over Durbin? Let me help you out here... Do you see how you're just... I can't tell if it's lying or just an inability to read. Now, Suarez is an upgrade... as a power hitter. Overall, as I pointed out, Durbin in 81 games has a 2.2 WAR. That's 4.4 over a full season. Suarez has only eclipsed 4 WAR ONCE in his career. That said, saying he's "not ENOUGH of an upgrade" to trade Pratt is NOT the same as saying "He's NOT AN UPGRADE."

Durbin is actually 2.2 WAR in exactly 81 games. Suarez, in his best season was 4.1 WAR. Now...do I think WAR should be the only metric used? Of course not, but...this is roughly what I expected. Pratt+.

LOL... of course he is. The 18 year old kid in A Ball with a OBP just shy of .400 who's playing great defense is "having a down year." So apparently it's NOT so crazy to suggest you'd trade a top ~35 SS prospect(top 35 in all of Baseball) as you just prposed trading two of them...and you use BA as your rationale(very odd you want Suarez if you're going by BA, but I'm kinda done trying to figure out a rationale to your argument other than, "eh, try something, what's the harm!" Quick Question...which team signed Tatis Jr? "How do we know though if we don't try." Well...this isn't the first baseball season that's been played. That's how.

Dude, I don't know you enough to hate you... get over yourself. I don't like your opinion. And that was the sum total of your answer? Where? What page and in what response to me did you even respond with "I don't think Suarez will cost as much as some here, think." How about YOU tell US what YOU think it'll cost and what would be worth it rather than just repeatedly making the ridiculous claim nobody else WANTS to win and you're the only one who actually cares and everyone else is happy with losing, but you, you brage bigred, you're the real true Brewers fan who will stand up to everyone and say..."make a couple moves." Man, come back from that edge! You're way out there! For the record, they made a major move already and you refuse to acknowledge it was even a significant trade because...well, I don't actually know why Priester doesn't count, I've effectively just gotten 'nuh-uh, I won't settle for mediocrity,' as responses to that question. You're incapable of making a coherent argument because nobody is answering a stupid rhetorical question? You cant' HONESTLY be expecting a serious answer to this question. The bloody Dodgers nonsense again. Now tell me who is harping on the regular season? And in fact, shouldn't sweeping the Dodgers be PROOF we DON'T need to make these major trades for players? It feels kinda obvious that each season is different. How about this though. The year is 2027, Misiorowski is our ace and dominant, you have Chourio, Contreras, Wilken, Adams, Frelick, Pratt, Turang, Fischer, you ALSO have Logan Henderson(who you'd trade away)... Bisop Letson, Josh Knoth, Hardin... and two top 5 prospects in the game knocking on the door. You have a hole in your BP or in...CF. Lara hasn't been great. THAT'S the year to answer this...obnoxious hypothetical(but what if we only go 5-1 vs the Dodgers or get swept by the Yankees). There, now I've answered. YOU can answer in kind and tell me WHO you're giving up and who we should acquire. A guideline with... ya know, actual names.

LOL... you have got to be kidding me, right? Have you been following this thread? I've asked... probably half a dozen times WHAT and WHO you expect to give up to make these trades. You've come back with asinine strawman arguments such as; This is the type of ridiculous strawman since you been unable to articulate exactly what you propose we do other than "go for it because we beat the Dodgers." And yes, that's CLEARLY my opinion. Don't care if the Brewers ever win a title... you're DEFINITELY more likely to win a title with 2 months of a player having a career year at 34. Being good in the regular season is... all I care about. I lack the capacity to see how teams like AZ, the 87 win Braves, the Nats when they had a depleted Pen or other teams simply got hot at the right time. The later is when you started the strawman argument that nobody on here wants to see any moves. It's funny you're both arguing you're NOT the only one saying that, but then... you claim here "not 1 person will answer" your ridiculous and rhetorical question. We're in a division race. It's no different than the last several years. You DID finally answer that you wouldnt' trade Made for a 2 month rental. That's as far as you went. I'd also like to point out that I believe EVERY post has said they'd like to see trades made, they just don't want to overpay for a rental... and I cannot understand why that's a difficult concept for you to grasp. Not that you have to agree with it, but just grasp. I don't even know what word you're self censoring here, but... again with the Dodgers. You seem to have planted your flag upon the idea we MUST go out and make this BIG drastic move because we beat the Dodgers 6 times! This question has also been answered ad nauseum. Small market teams should VIRTUALLY never trade 7 years of elite prospects for rentals. Another argument made up ENTIRELY of your own creation. Not a person on here doesn't want to win a championship. Most simply understand that it's not smart for small market teams with a lot of YOUNG talent to trade significant pieces for a rental HURTS that pursuit, it doesn't' help it. Again, another VERY honest representation of what has been articulated🙄 I'm done, but there are literally dozens more examples.

Yeah, but it's also the first time he's played SS in a while. Even when he benched Ortiz, he played Monasterio at SS. So...this is at least noteworthy. Even if it simply means they would consider playing Siegler more at 3B vs tough righties for example.

And YET AGAIN you were unable to answer who you'd be willing to give up. And you made a bunch of REALLY asinine statements because I said I wasn't willing to give up a Chourio caliber prospect... but this one is a switch hitting SS or the guy that some people think is even better, the SS/2B/3B with 70 speed. What team in Baseball do you suppose IS trading those types of prospects for rentals? You have a remarkable ability to either pretend to be really obtuse or... you're not pretending. That'd be sadder. Did you really need THREE posts to respond to one post of mine...and in doing so, not answer ONE single question? This logic that we should trade anyone and do whatever it takes for 2 months because we beat the Dodgers doesnt' mean sweeping the Dodgers... in TWO 3 game series is "a big nothing burger." It mean that's not a good enough reason to trade Pratt, Pena, Made, Quero. You'd have traded Chourio a couple seasons ago, you'd have traded Misiorowski last year. It's your exact mentality that'd prevent the Brewers from every being a competitive team. Ok, and here's your third example of NOT being able to answer some simple questions, but who is arguing "that." What is the "that?" We should give up whoever it takes to get 2 months of a rental? Since I've asked and you responded by defending the position, that is clearly your position. Made, Pena, Pratt, whoever it takes...to get 2 months of a rental. And then watch them for 7 years of 10 years as in the case of Chourio and watch as they thrive elsewhere and the Brewers are irrelevant because you don't seem to grasp how small market teams have to try and win. By the way, I seem to recall you claiming the large market teams don't "need to make trades because they have the money to pay Free Agents." Why are the Cubs, Yankees, Phillies all trying to trade for Suarez? It's a bit difficult to take any of this seriously when you had to reply to one post... three times and not actually respond to the questions posed. And I get it, you don't have answers, you just want to complain and "do something," because you "won't settle" for mediocrity... which is always an amusing statement among fans. Nobody cares what YOU will "settle" for.

That and Hiura had a pretty solid sample size of just destroying MLB pitching. He came up like Braun as a rookie. ~.300/.370/.570 with a OPS .940 and OPS+138 And it's not like he came out of nowhere. He was considered the best or 2nd best hitter in his draft class. Dalbec seems like he may be... serviceable I suppose, but if you never liked Hiura? That seems like 100% the benefit of hindsight or... something. I don't know, but he was very good offensively. A lot of strikeouts, but there wasn't a whole lot of reason to think he wasn't going to be a big part of this lineup for years to come. Their hitting lab? We'll have to see, but I'm not very convinced Vaughn is really an average 1B offensively, these 12 games notwithstanding, but I'm not sold. But I also just don't have much faith in their "hitting lab." They turn around pitchers. They plug in cast offs from other teams and they are hit or miss. We're not particularly good(nor bad) at taking a hitter from another system and really developing them.

Is he though? He throws in the low 90s and has a really good change that...seldom lands in the zone. Devin Williams when he was throwing well had a better change, threw in the mid 90s... and when he was throwing in the low 90s, it was really nerve wracking. I'll take Wichrowski over Yoho. Yoho is more refined, but he seems like he's pretty limited. Trading now would be selling high on a cheap, late round pick we signed for near the minimum amount.

Cruz is not a great fielding SS. If he were... the Pirates would not have taken him and moved him to the OF. He does have a ton of power and ability... but he's not displacing Ortiz at SS. I'd be alright if you made a move and Collins came in to play 2nd or something along those lines(I don't know how good he is at 2nd, but assuming he's good). Cruz hits the ball harder than anyone else. That's going to turn into 30-40 HR seasons...even if it may be low 200 BA.

YOU-ARE-THE-ONE-I-AM-TALKING-TO. You're just talking right past everyone and you refuse to actually engage, don't you? So since this is a strawman and you've declared that NOBODY but you(and a few other people) want to "make a few trades," I'll answer this question. Never. I don't EVER want to trade a guy who's on the same level as a prospect as Chourio but at SS and trade him for a 2 month rental. Since you can't answer that VERY simple question and refuse to say anything but parrot "make a trade...make a trade," I'll go to the other same braindead extreme. Seriously though... get over the Dodgers sweep. We were on a hot streak, they'd lost 10 of 12. That's not the point you're making it out to be. That's NEVER a reason to trade guys like Made, Pena, Pratt for 2 months of a guy. And I'm going to assume it would take players like that as you don't consider Priester a big trade and somehow think it matters that it's viewed most positively in hindsight than it was at the time! LOL...so what? That's literally the ONLY thing that matters. How it ends up working out.

Yeah, if it's Yoho, I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought. You have to pay more than the comp pick the D-backs are going to get for Suarez. That's... probably not going to do it. I'm thinking with all the teams that want Suarez and his numbers, you're looking at something closer to Henderson AND a lower level prospect or Wilken+. That's what I wouldn't do. But Yoho and Lara or Yoho and Boeve? That's an easy decision to me. I think it's going to take a lot more than that. The "it's time to go all in," is more the Cubs this year with Tucker set to be a FA and them making. That was a little desperate and now they really kinda have to pay him 500M+ or they traded for a year and a supplemental pick.

All you're choosing to do is complain on a message board that you're the only one who wants to win by demanding... someting. You won't quite say what or what we're supposed to give up, just... something. You've been asked, would you trade Made, Pena, Pratt, Quero, Henderson...for a rental. Is that smart. I've not seen an answer. You're not making any "choice" that involves the Brewers beyond that. My "choice" is to hope the Brewers DON'T trade players who could be stars for the Brewers for 7 years. This reminds me very much of the conversation from just last year where the argument was made that we'd be better off spending 10M more on payroll vs putting that money toward the IFA and DR Facilities. Just short sighted. But again, it's actually hard to say as you haven't actually said anything other than just repeating how we beat the Dodgers(over and over) and that means we need to make a big trade... but not sure for who. I haven't seen anyone here who's against a trade. I've seen people here who are against treating this as some unique season where you have to give up a top 10-25 prospect in MLB because... this is such a rare year and we beat the Dodgers.

According to the MJS, it's 35%-38%. I believe he originally purchased 45% and then as Rodgers or Giannis have come in, he's sold small % of his share, but still remains the principal owner.

You're wrong. His ownership stake is in the mid to upper 30s. 37% was last I heard. And he also said they can afford to add anyone at the deadline... just in terms of payroll. This, "the hell with it, what's the point, I'm sick of losing in the first round," ideology is...so deeply, deeply flawed. And you're using the sweep of the Dodgers as some proof that this is the year they NEED to add players. So then...what do you trade? Just whatever it takes? Does that guarantee you anything? We were nearly 10 games better than the Braves when we lost to them. Beating the Nats when they came back to beat us with Hader on the mound(also lost to the Braves with Hader on the mound). Here's the reality. These "go for it," trades you're talking about, it's a marginal improvement on their chances for this year, but if you give up a guy like Pratt of Quero, it's going to cost you for nearly 7 years. 6 years and 4 months of service time. So you want to trade a top 100 prospect for a 2 month rental of a guy who has hit 27 of his HRs in AZ and very few on the road? What trade would be good enough that you wouldn't blame Attanasio(who again, has already said they can afford financially to add ANY player this year)? It's going to be a VERY high standard as you've completely dismissed Priester as a big move.

Are you saying it's NOT? Yophery Rodriguez, the 33rd pick and a pretty good pitching prospect for Priester. If THAT isn't big, nothing is going to satisfy you... What do you think he'd cost now in a trade? 6 years of team control over a guy with an ERA in the low 3s who is going deep into games? But that's... not a big trade?

I'm sorry, but we can get Suarez in this scenario for Boeve and Myers and everyone wants to stand put? I have been saying don't give up big time assets for a rental, but... what are these two guys really worth? Tyler Black is suddenly VERY unpopular. Boeve seems like a less athletic version of Black. Myers...eh, saw something about him hitting 98 in AAA on here. That seemed hard to believe when I saw him throw a couple innings. It's not Logan Henderson. That's a trade I'd jump at. I think it's absurd to talk about Pratt, Quero(much less the top 2) or Henderson for a 2 month rental, but I'm 100% fine with that deal. Where is Boeve playing in the future? Not 2nd, not 3rd, he's likely a DH... who doesn't have great power.

If I was the GM, I'd have a lot more information regarding self scouting. But the #1 thing I'd be doing would be trying to build around Chourio. The other two professional sports teams in the state have given you the blue prints of how you DON'T do it. The Bucks pressed and now they're stuck in this purgatory with a superstar. Baseball is different. You can constantly make bad trades and there are so many ways to acquire young talent(as the Padres have shown) you can make up for them. Meanwhile, the Packers under Thompson were uber conservative. The thing is... we all know Baseball is different. In those sports, if you're the best team, you have a MUCH better chance of advancing. In Baseball, we saw a GG OFer watch the ball go under his glove to lose to the future WS champs in the first rd, we've seen Hader twice give up runs in the playoffs in a series deciding game, vs Washington and the Braves. We saw the Brewers get SO many men on base and just smoke the ball about a dozen times and hit LDs right at the D-Backs...who of course made a WS run and we were a late inning HR off Jeremy Jeffress, someone who'd given up a BA of like .120 on his splitter AFTER he walked in a run the previous inning(I'll never believe the Dodgers weren't one of the teams cheating that year when they cried foul about the Astros more egregiously cheating). So...PERSONALLY, while I want to win this year badly... and I think they have a very real chance, I'm really looking at surrounding Chourio with Frelick/Turant atop the order, Made the switch hitter who walks and hits for power batting 2nd, Chourio, the MVP caliber player by this point hitting 3rd, Yelly, Contreras and then Pena, Adams, Pratt, Collins rounding out that lineup. The way our farm system looks, we have 2-3 players at every position, so even with the normal rate of guys who don't develop, the GOAL should be to get to a point where you don't have a whole in your lineup and you don't need to get into a bidding war for a 2 month rental. So the bottom line is what are the chances we're trading a guy like Fernando Tatis Jr for a James Shields to try and give ourselves a 2% better chance of winning? Is if 5% better? What are the odd that Made, Pena, Adamczewski, Dinges, Quero, Pratt, Wilken, Adams become star players? It may be a cop-out, and I know this ideology pisses off many Brewers fans to no end, but if I think Adamczewski can be a .300 hitter, play CF/2B maybe some 3B and SS and be a super utility player while putting up several ~4 WAR seasons, I'm probably not doing it. If I think Collins is the type of player he'll develop into(but at an earlier age) I'm not pulling the trigger. If I think Fischer is really the best bat in this draft, I'm much more inclined to trade Burke, Adams or Wilken. So knowing what I don't know, the top tier players I'm willing to trade are; Wilken, Patrick, Myers, Areinamo, players on that teir for a rental. For someone with team control for 2+years(so say the Twins, I want to add Castro and Durhan and then you can always flip him) I'd go up to Henderson+Wilken+Yoho and probably dig a little deeper if you can get Durhan or Bautista from Minnesota/Baltimore. Castro is not a huge upgrade to me, his defense isn't good, but O'Hearns is a bigger one. So you'd addjust accordingly. It's not even a given Duran or Bautista are available. And I'm sure people will disagree, but I think the more likely and best avenue to really improving this team for a playoff run is another just dominant reliever. One you can use like we used Hader back in the day. Bring them in at any time of the game. Or just copy the Royals and have those three overpowering trio at the end of the game. Finally, I'd be open to trading Quintana. I don't think you're getting back alot, but if you can get a couple prospects that you can then throw into a trade, I'm more than happy to swap out Cortes for Quintana. Cortes should be ready soon as he just threw 93 pitches tonight. I know, a lot verbose and a bit vague, but I just don't think there are a lot of great fits and if we're going to and give up a top 100 prospect, I think a dominant reliever who can overpower guys is at least as valuable. Keep shortening the games, try and get a bat who can help vs RHPing and I think we're right in the race without giving up Pratt or Quero.