BrewerFan

Much more? Eh, I don't know about that. That's 8 years at 160 and then two option years that'd...pay out big. Much-much more would be...what, 300M? You'd have had him for most of 7 years(though...he wouldn't have started with the MLB team)... But, it doesn't matter, we got him locked up. Hopefully we're worrying about paying him to remain a Brewers in 3-4 years...or not thinking about it at all, either way.

I remember just last year there were still people(a person) arguing that the cost of the Latin American academy was not worth it and we'd be better off spending ~10M a year on MLB FA rather than our "failed" attempt at getting an academy going in the DR. I think the future of this team would be bright, but take out Chourio, Quero, Made, even Uribe(who I still believe is a future closer)...and yeah, it's pretty easy to be content with how this team chooses to acquire talent. I also wish we were getting a top pitching prospect every once in a while. I wanted Camminti this past year and various HS pitchers in the past, but as risky as they are, it's a whole new level of risk. I'd just go after the most projectable arms, the guys with the biggest velocity and hope you can turn them into something...after focusing on the top position prospects. Uribe IIRC was a 10K signing bonus? Maybe it was 30K. I'm so excited about this franchise, not just because of the young players they have right now, but because if you squint and if guys pan out, it's not hard to see Quero, Made, Pratt, and Chourio all as AS caliber players(I like a lot of other American players like Bitonti, Wilken, etc...but those are blue chip, potential FV 60 type players and potential top 10 prospects. Quero could easily have been just repeating his '23 stat line in AAA with his defense). We've been one of the best teams in all of Baseball since 2018 and I really think the future is brighter in Milwaukee. And Mark Attanasio doesn't get the credit he deserves, but the Brewers COULD be spending another 10-15 a year on the Big League roster, but the investments in the DR Academy and the AZ Complex has paid off many times more than the initial ~120-150M dollar investment we made. Hell, what would it take to sign Jackson Chourio right now to a 10 year extension? Another 80-100M pretty easily.

Yeah, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Quintana and Made were like 25 and 26 at one point in the rankings and then moved up significantly? Chourio was ~20th IIRC. But even there, didn't they move up later in the process? I thought earlier on, they were both in the mid 20s. I don't think Quintana was 12th when we were first tied to him or even Made was 22nd. Or perhaps I'm mis-remembering or thinking of a different ranking, but I thought they ended up higher in the final ranking.

Yeah, 4 HRs in a two week span have changed his...rate. His K rate is down, walk rate is up. Are you feeling confident He's going to be 1 of...what, 50 players all time who've actually done it though? I would be thrilled. I'd be thrilled to see him do it...I'm still skeptical about the likelihood, but it'd be great. For now, I'll just be happy to see him in the lineup everyday vs RHPers and staying healthy. His defense and speed, OB skills have been huge. If he can take that next leap...like I said, that makes him another MVP caliber player. 30/30 with his defense in CF? You'd be set.

They can...BUT, I think they need Love and he's gotta look much-much better than he did week 1. It wasn't a huge deal, just early-season rust, but he'll be coming back vs a defense that plays aggressively and in your face and...and forces quick decisions. I think Love is near lock to play this week. Just being an MCL, there's not a big risk to make that injury worse from what I understand. We need Love back there getting the ball out early, Jacobs and Wilson throwing body shots, Watson getting behind the defense, but maybe most importantly, Wicks, Reed, Doubs, guys who can win right off the LOS getting the ball. I THINK Musgraves will be more in the game plan, but we'll see. If not, then there's more going on there. Kraft is banged up from playing as a lead blocker(plus he just plays physically). Big-BIG test for the run defense. Two really good OTs, big physical OGs a pretty good Center and then Aaron Jones. Who...has a point to prove. The Vikings very much appear to be a team that's better than the sum of their parts because of two really elite coaches. Florres running that defense and O'Connell the offense. Yeah, he's a stud. The Picks are obviously great, but he's so reliable and he's so good at coming down and playing in the box. Peter Bukowski made an observation about how he's like Za'Darius Smith, two under the radar FAs who took off with the Packers... Was he ever under any radar? He's been one of the best safeties in the league, he was the clear cut #1 guy after Winfield was tagged. I think we're going to open up the defense and offense a bit more. Need some quick hitters off the middle to the TEs to keep the LBs a second behind, on defense, need to get up on those WRs and help out with Jefferson to get Darnold feeling uncomfortable. With Darrisaw and O'Neil, the IDL has to win(Clark always beats the hell outta Bradbury), Wyatt and then...again, Cooper or maybe some backside slot blitzes. I feel like something LIKT that could be the difference in this game. Whichever QB gets the ball out the quickest with the free runners...as both teams will have some.

I was told the season was over! 2-1, one-possession game vs the Eagles in Brazil, you have Clark playing the worst Football of his career, Gary is playing...alright, but not dominant(I am pretty comfortable both will step up), Cooper reminds me of Clay Matthews in that they're holding him back the first quarter of the season, but he's going to make a big impact... In fact, with Clay, it was a HUGE week 4 game vs the Vikings where they kinda took the reigns off a bit and he came through with a huge play or 3. Just sayin'... week 4 could be a breakout for Eddgerin Cooper. He can really complement this defense. I was actually thinking...outloud to some friends watching the game, what would you give up for him? Just hypothetically, Dallas is out of it. 3rd? 2nd? 1st would be too much I think, but that dude is incredible. Also kicks mostly in a dome or good weather, but he is SO good.

I need someone who remembers me one day as you remember Jeff Janis. Jeff Janis=Luke Musgrave! Or...pretty much any 26-year-old pitcher in HiA/back up AA catcher who you're...in love with! With respect Joseph, I'm not sure you're the guy to talk about people standing up for players too much! Also, when did this become a Walker vs Clark conversation? Because I said it was Clark who was at fault on that particular play? Clark has been regressing, but I've also got confidence he'll thrive in this scheme...just as Quay will. If you want Quay Walker blowing up Ryan Kelly...in space, then making a tackle on Jonathan Taylor in the open field, Ray Lewis and Ray Nitchke's hybrid offspring will disappoint! And no, there's no shot that Eric Wilson is playing more than Quay at MLB or elsewhere irrespective of draft slot. He had a pick and a high grade on 7 snaps. He's a very nice backup. We're two weeks in and aside from the usual suspects who declare the season over before it begins like Sixto or whoever, maybe give this team and Quay a bit more time in the system before we crucify him. That pick may have been Xavier McKinney...but that's a LB, Quay Walker running with De'Vonta Smith step for step 30 yards down the field forcing that throw. That are a handful of LBers in the league who are making that play...and they sure as hell aren't Eric Wilson, McDuffie...Cooper may be one of them(though I think he's better around the LOS, but we'll see). Quay's main responsibilities have been spying Hurts, Richardson, dropping into coverage and then playing the run...the last is a given. But I know Herman's grading system. If he spys Richardson and does nothing else on the play, he's done his job...and he's gotten at best a neutral or worse grade. Let's check back here at the end of the season and see what Walker and Cooper have done....and for that matter, Musgraves as...I feel pretty confident whatever his early season struggles, he'll once again easily surpass the sum of Jeff Janis' entire playing career in 8-9 games once again this year...though, Kraft has been a much better matchup and clearly taken his game up a notch. This has to be the most negative Packers threads, particularly for a team that lost a 1 score game vs a top 3 team in the NFC and then won with Malik Willis(who...again, was already written off) that I've seen in years.

https://atozsports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers-news/former-first-round-pick-has-been-a-huge-disappointment-for-the-packers-to-start-the-season/ This is the source. Walker hasn't been good this year, but the picking and choosing...particularly picking plays in which a PB center gets a free release to the 2nd level and Walker, who should be playing WLB in a one-gap is now being criticized for not playing 2 gaps and making the tackle is...just silly. Walker's also responsible for 3 turnovers this year(at the very least in part responsible). He was the LBer who carried the 4.3 De'Vonta Smith 30+ yards down the field vs Philly and forced the pick by being in perfect position. Did the same vs the Titans and then was the one pressuring Richardson on the other INT that game. Comparing his snaps to Wilson's 7, is...silly. Look at that list. Gary, Clark and then Van Ness(who I believe had a 72 grade last week, so those aren't PFF grades, but they're two weeks all the same). Football is a pretty simple sport. You're reliant on particular positions. WR is particularly reliant on QB. QB is reliant on OL and WR. LB is as reliant on the DL as any position, so to the original point, using a play in which Ryan Kelly gets to the 2nd level, untouched because Kenny Clark jumps inside and is now responsible for TWO Gaps(in a one-gap scheme) is...just silly. Clark was responsible for the A Gap there. He gambled or...actually it looks like they were slanting and he just slanted the wrong way. In any event, you have to keep the LBers clean. Walker CANNOT overrun plays and needs to play with more...focused aggression but this scattershot analysis citing PFF and then using other grades is silly. When the DL does its job, Quay is a difference-maker. When the DL vacates their gaps...well, he's not. Look at the play at ~4:20. Similar play, DT does his job, Quay fires and it's a TFL. Same a couple plays later with Jacobs, now of the Packers. DL does his job... (Copyright on the video, Quay Walker 2023 highlghts). While we're using PFF grades through 2 games. Quay Walker-52.0 as a rookie, 60.0 yr 2, and BETTER than either Smith or Queen this year at 47.8(not that it's a sparkling number, but it's TWO games in). Roquan Smith-52.4 yr 2, 47.1 This year Patrick Queen-29.7 as a rookie, 38.4 This year (Then again, if you're looking at grades for a LB, you'd miss out on how impressive Payton Wilson has been this year in his PT). Certainly better than A to Z Sports... Not worth writing home about...but maybe a reminder of the uselessness of grading off 2 games just for starters, but if we're going to appeal to authority(and that "authority" being fans who never played Football...and well as PFF, not sure it supports Quay being quite as bad as some or portraying him.

I agree with the last sentence in particular and I'd love to see either of those players in Milwaukee...though how the hell do you miss virtually the whole season with an abductor strain(that is what Moncada had, right)... I just don't know that the Brewers are going to go out and be willing to out-bid teams for Moncada. Suarez, I'd love to have him. That will be interesting to see if they do move Perdomo to 3rd or keep him at SS and play Lawler at 3B. I'm just assuming it's more in line with where they've been in the past and I see the Yankees or a team like that signing Moncada. It'd be great...but I still think we're going to be a really good team either way. You're basically swapping Adames for Yelich, hoping he's healthy and maybe the back injuries are gone. If we can add another weapon at 3rd, even better.

OK

I don't care. He wouldn't be playing SS here, that's obvious. Make it any other cheap signing you want then. I don't think it's likely to be a significant investment.

Well, not at SS or 3B, but he's alright at 2B.

50 basis points... Guessing you get two more cuts this year?

Yeah, well...probably because we're both looking for the same things. Cheap, controllable players and the ones we like that they want, we don't want to part with. They aren't the type of organization that normally wants to trade for a Hader, Burnes, Williams. If I was the Twins, I don't know that I'd do anything. Quero, as I suggested and @jay87shotsaid he'd give up for Lee makes sense, but a catcher with his defense who can hit is so valuable, so makes sense WE wouldn't want to give him up. And a 3B/SS...well, they're not easy to find either. As for needing OFers, they've got two stud OFers who should be ready by early next year and next Sept and they've got pretty good pitching. I thought the Brewers window was really opening next year...and I think the same may be true of the Twins. They look like they're set up to be really good the next 3-4 years. I'm just grateful to have such a well run organization that keeps churning out elite level prospects...but finding a 3B/2B(I really don't think it makes sense to limit it to one over the other as I really think Turang and Ortiz would both be exceptional defensive SS's) is gonna be tough. Would Ahmed Rosario really be the worst option? Just someone who is cheap, can play solid defense, put the ball in play, but who isn't an elite player?

I agree, his instincts are probably average. But you don't have instincts like Luke Kuechly, Patrick Willis or even when Clay moved inside, he had great instincts. Brian Urlacher...for example, pretty average instincts and physicality in the run game(elite in the passing game...he and Derrick Brooks are the two best I ever saw). No LB is going to look good if the guys in front of them aren't doing their jobs. Even Ray Lewis struggled and had some down years before they brought Ngata in there(Same with the Bears duo of Briggs and Urlacher and Tommy Harris). I really think the plays that are being used are just bad examples. I don't know what LB in the NFL is making that play that Andy Herman cited. You're trying to force things back inside if you can't make the play. There was another where McDuffie has outside contain, he lets Taylor get outside and Quay does shoot the gap, but now he's 1 on 1 with Taylor who has a full head of steam, and...that's a really bad matchup. Agreed. we also just need all 11 guys to do their jobs and we'll be fine. Cooper with Quay is going to be a lot of fun, especially in the nickel.

Look at what you quoted from me I didn't say Quay has been great(though he has been very good in coverage)...I said using THAT play is ridiculous in my opinion and I'm shocked to see Tyler Brooke or Andy Herman or anyone else using it. That play was on Clark. If you expect Quay to make that play, you're expecting way too much out of any LBer. As for the rest...yeah, there's some bad football in there. You could also cut up his 7 best plays and he'd look pretty damn good, but as I said, less a defense of Quay, more about how you're judging a player and definitely about using the play with Kelly running free.

I don't know...if he's the opposite case or just that underrated, but it seems unlikely, IF he has a big year and they get back to the SB or a deep run, he'll probably get an extension. And 55M is the standard now after Dak. He was in a similar position. Talented OL, skill players wasn't great. He just got 60M GTD over 4years. The only position it doesn't matter if you're the best, just the next up. Not long ago Rodgers 4 year ~140M extension was record-setting. Next it'll be 70M. A cap just for QBs probably won't happen, but it'd make sense...

I'm sorry, what's the opposing position? The argument that the 49ers DON'T wish they'd have drafted Aaron Rodgers? Can you show me one person making that argument? If so, sure...anyone who thinks they were better going Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers...I'll gladly cop to making a "strawman" argument. 2-I'm not predicting the future. That'd be more like making the claim right before the Brewers put up 25 runs on the defending NL Champs, that their offense, good for #3 in the NL in runs score...has such a bad postseasonoffense, they will inevitably go 0-2 in the post-season. That's a person I'd ask for the Power Ball Tickets. I'm making an educated guess that one of the most dominant teams both defensively and with regard to the run game, a team that's lost in the Super Bow 3X(despite leading in the last 2 last in the 4th Q), lost IIRC 3 NFCCGs by 1 score, largely on the back of poor QB play, lost another NFCCG because they didn't really have a QB...that PERCHANCE they'd have had better results with arguably the most talented player in NFL history at that position. That...didn't feel like particularly insightful or visionary at the time. In fact, rather than telling you the power ball, it feels like it'd be more like telling you which stocks WOULD have been the best to buy from 2011 until today😂

Probably, but the versatility allows us to go after a 3B or a 2B. It's not easy to find impact players there, but there's one team that has a lot at the two positions...the Twins. I could live with Torres, but defense is so important on this team...and Torres is not a good defender. The D-backs will definitely pick up Suarez, it's a 13M-dollar decision for them, but they could turn around and trade him. They've got a really good SS right now, one of the top prospects in the game coming up who's already got MLB time in Lawlar. Or maybe they'd trade Perdomo? Yeah, I think ultimately they'll try and piece it together. A guy like Ahmed Rosario could be added. The team that matches up REALLY well...almost too well as their players are so talented would be the Twins. Correa is at SS, NTC and no reason to trade him. Royce Lewis is a potential Super Star. Brooks Lee is also a potential star. They have Jose Miranda and Julien playing well right now. But I'd think Lewis and Lee would be REAL hard to pry from them. Quero would have to be on the board. Maybe Peralta or...I don't even know who. I wouldn't trade either if I was the Mets. They're good now and those two have the potential to be cornerstones. I'd play Lewis at 3B, Lee at 2nd or one in the OF. You make room for athletes who can hit. Yeah...but he's so bad defensively...

Kraft is definitely the more physical, bruiser and can serve as a physical H-back type... BUT...go back and watch #88 in those. He's not Kraft, but...he's getting the job done. He's the key block to spring Jacobs and is holding his own at the point vs guys like Kwity Payne. Love Kraft, I'm gonna love all these guys more when we get Love back and he can just...spread the love. Get this OL running the ball like this and hell, the Love injury...well, it won't be a good thing, but we may end up better for it.

I'm sorry...WHAT now? Questionable hands? He might have the most reliable hands on the team. I don't know how to reconcile any of this with what I've seen. He's not super physical TE obviously, but he's one of the most fluid athletes you'll see at TE, We got two really good TEs in that class and Kraft has been a better blocker, but Musgrave was as productive as Kraft. Kraft's been a better blocker, but Musgrave isn't a terrible blocker. Jeff Janis? I might go back and watch a little bit of him from last year again. You're gonna need a VERY different play. That's 100% on Kenny Clark there. Part of the give and take with a one gap vs two gap, but stop the play a 2 seconds. Where would you like him to attack? He's got Johnathan Taylor, a Pro-Bowl Center who's now on the 2nd level as Clark completely taking himself out of the play. Which way should he go? It's easy once you get to the 3rd second(after he makes contact)...you're asking him to make a play...I don't think any LB in the NFL makes there. Not just Taylor one-on-one...you have Ryan Kelly out in front and Taylor is using him to cut off of. He could commit inside...that breaks pretty much every rule, but you see that Williams in coming in later. He could jump outside and...there's still nobody over the middle. That's what a good RB is going to do. They're going to run with patience and use that blocker to cut off of. Quay has made a couple of monster plays, but I keep seeing this one and then Barkley in the hole and I think the expectations in this situations are wildly unrealistic. I don't think Fred Warner is making that play there, I don't think Urlacher is(I know he isn't actually)... If you've got a LBer who's gambling and shooting the A-gaps there, sure, but then you're going to get killed in the passing game. But actually watch how that play unfolds and tell me what Walker is supposed to do? That definitely breaks down when KC jumps inside and takes himself out of the play. You'll have that with one gap though. And it's less a defense for Quay(though...I think he's getting WAY too much heat and he's been outstanding vs the pass this year) and more about what an impossible play that is and how easy that is for the RB.

I gotta stop trying to multi-task...start writing and then.... Sorry, what are we talking about now?

LOL....hell no! We'll see without Jefferson, Addison, Hockenson and maybe Jones next week! The only thing they have is an elite OL...or at least OTs. But Darnold is another example. I actually do think most QBs who are talented, they fail because the organization fails them.

Ok...but you have play with me here! LOL...I'm saying...he's still Aaron Rodgers and even the Bears couldn't screw him up! But...touché. Caleb Williams is as talented as any QB in the last maybe 10 years and he looks brutal! They just don't prioritize developing QBs with actual coaches... You're right. I'm just...assuming the development. But in fairness, I've said I think if Alex Smith came to Green Bay, he would have MVP caliber and Rodgers would have just been a good starter. But again, I'm assuming he's still Aaron Rodgers in this scenario. You could add Love to this. VERY rarely you get a guy like CJ Stroud. Jordan Love would be worse than Drew Lock if not developed right...so fair point. Incidentally, if you remember, a lot of people were down on Love in part because the Packers were targeting Lock in the early 2nd in his draft class(inferring they were bad at identifying QBs). Yeah, again...of course. BUT...Jim Harbaugh and the coaches they've had there, they develop QBs pretty well... But under that premise, Aaron Rodgers is Aaron Rodgers and you put him on the 49ers. The one they lost with Kaep to Baltimore. Just the last 5 years, Two SB losses, one in which they just needed Jimmy G to make an easy throw. The Eagles NFCCG loss when their QBs got hurt early, the Rams 23-20 loss in the NFCCG and last year they lost in OT. Those are 3 SBs I think they win, maybe 4. But yeah, it's going to have major butterfly affects. Maybe the Packers are like the 49ers if they take Smith and trade for Trent, McCaffery, whatever...

YES!!! The one thing I really wanted to talk about, but you nailed it. They ran SO much more power running. Doubling, Kraft was used in a H-back role a bit, but they doubled at the point, they got pulled out in front, some misdirection. They changed the run blocking a bit so that it suited Jacobs(I think, maybe it was just a few plays, have to re-watch). But it was a great scheme. And I'll bet they've got some different looks off of that they'll incorporate. That was a masterclass by MLF As for Musgrave-Kraft, yeah, that's strange. Kraft is a stud, but Musgrave is so good, I want to see him out there more. You'd think Musgrave was the one with the serious injury, then banged up in Camp. I still think Musgrave is a potentially elite QB. Definitely. He was making some nice throws. I'm excited to see if they can develop him and then turn him into a 3rd Rd pick in a year or two. The physical tools are unquestionable. If he plays next week, I expect a couple PA shots downfield. That's his strength, the deep ball. Doesn't even have to hit on them, but it'll open things up(Jeffery Simmons may close them down though).