The CC Watch... Latest: Who knows?

[kramnoj]

Is there a reason that San Fran isn't in the equation?

 

CC clearly loved being in the playoff hunt this year. SF offers the advantage of being near his home, but they don't look to be a good team for a couple of years. So with SF he is going to go to a non-competitive team and probably take less money than he could get elsewhere. So it all comes down to how much he values being close to home during the season.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Other teams that have shown interest in Sabathia include the Mets, Giants and Dodgers. The Angels could also figure into the Sabathia bidding if they are unable to re-sign free agent first baseman Mark Teixeira.

So the fact that the Brewers have focused completely on Sabathia so far this offseason doesn't even get them mentioned as a "team that has shown interest" in this article? I'm not expecting CC to sign with the Brewers, but c'mon.

[southpaw121505]

Yeah, kinda insulting. We had the first offer on the table for him. I think we should do 4/100. Yeah, he'd leave 40 million bucks on the table but he'd also likely get another huge contract in 4 years, 2 years sooner. If he likes it here and wants to win, I don't think its that big of a risk for him. I'd be willing to bet that in 4 years he gets another contract for 40 million or more. I guess it's easy for me to say and I'm clearly biased. But, I'd rather sign here for less money but shorter years and get another deal later. He'd be right up there with Yount and Molitor, he'd be the most loved person in this town. Or he could be another Yankee

 

back to reality......hey ben, how ya doing buddy?...

[BrewCrewForever]

"I think it's going to be mutually beneficial to us and for these particular players that we're after for them to join the Yankees."

 

That quote from Steinbrenner really set me off. Like it's so beneficial to be a Yankee and they are so much better then everyone else. Please. Screw Hank.

[Patrick425]

Melvin's comments in the paper this morning were interesting. He was basically shocked at the NY offer. He didn't understand why they would offer them so much if the word is that the Brewers offered $100mil/5year.

[endaround]

Because there is a a non zero cost in making an offer. Making a non-competitive offer just wastes everbody's time

[logan82]

He was basically shocked at the NY offer. He didn't understand why they would offer them so much if the word is that the Brewers offered $100mil/5year.

 

I don't know why the Yankees offer is shocking. I am surprised it wasn't closer to $150M.

[kramnoj]

I'm not sure that I take those Melvin comments at face value. I really hope he has a better feel for the player market to not be shocked that CC would get this kind of offer from the Yankees. I'm guessing he just provided those comments as part of the PR campaign the Brewers will provide if CC takes the huge money from the Yankees.

[DHonks]

Mr. Southpaw,

My issue is that if the Brewers truly want to entice him, they can do something that they normally never do. The Brewers were foolish to backload Suppan's contract, so why not frontload Sabathia's, while Braun's extension hasn't yet kicked in to the high dollar points.

 

Why not:

Year 1: 27 million

Year 2: 26

Year 3: 24

Year 4: 23

Year 5: 21

that's 5 years and $121 million.

Also, while Wisconsin has very high property taxes, I seem to recall it having fairly low sales and income taxes. I wonder how many million more Sabathia would have to make in CA or NY (high tax states) just to make the same amount he's making in Milwaukee

[endaround]

Almost meaningless since most states tax baseball players for games played there anyway.

[logan82]

Most contracts in any sport are back loaded. Usually not as badly as Suppan's. I suspect part of the back-loading in Suppan's contract is to make him harder to trade and to keep his salary under Sheets' salary.

[kramnoj]

According to one Wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_income_tax the state of NY has up to a 8.14% income tax and the city of NY has up to a 4% income tax. According to this: http://www.dor.state.wi.us/faqs/pcs/taxrates.html the top rate in WI is 6.75%. So about 5% more tax, if the NY city tax is based on where you are employed and not where you live.

 

Almost meaningless since most states tax baseball players for games played there anyway.

 

This, of course, is exaggeration. It certainly makes a difference if 162 of your games are taxed in the highest tax city, as opposed to half a dozen games.

[endaround]

All away games are taxed in the state they are played in. So its on only half the games. So you're talking maybe $100-$200k, not enough to really worry about unless the Brewers do something much more significant.

[Turnbowsaves24]

If the Yanks do get Peavy, do you think they would pull out of the CC sweepstakes?

 

EDIT -- Subject

[BREWCREW5]

Absolutely not,

 

They would probably pull out of the Lowe or Burnett deals though.

[Ennder]

The increased income from endorsements etc would easily make up any difference in taxes.

[rluzinski]

I suspect part of the back-loading in Suppan's contract is to make him harder to trade and to keep his salary under Sheets' salary.

 

It has everything to do with the time value of money. Whenever you are evaluating any contract, you have to start with the present value of the entire contract. Why would the Brewers want to pay Suppan an extra $5 mil with 2006 money when they can use 2010 money instead? If they want to trade him, they can just throw money into the deal. At least they can use 2009 money instead of already paying Suppan it 2 years ago.

 

Ignoring the Yankee tax, the best contact for a club is to pay league minimum for every year until the last.

[kramnoj]

All away games are taxed in the state they are played in. So its on only half the games.

 

Is this something you know, or are you guessing? I don't think players are exempt from paying their income tax because they are working out of state. They may get credit for paying the portion of tax they had to pay to another state, but states aren't so willing to give up money that they would just exempt workers from paying tax.

 

It is true that CC could get more in endorsements in NY. It's also true that housing is incredibly expensive, that everything is more expensive. But it probably isn't going to be relevant to CC and his choice. I don't think the Brewers offer is going to be close enough that CC is going to need to make these kind of calculations. If CC wants the most money, I don't have much doubt that the Yankees will be the team to offer it.

[endaround]

Its something I know. They are treated as earning income in those other states. Its like living in Racine but working Illinois writ large.

[sauveb]

The Yankees will go after CC no matter who else they get.

[kramnoj]

I haven't looked into any NY state law references yet, but I thought this article on the "jock tax" was interesting: http://moneycentral.msn.c...ontent/Taxes/P112872.asp. In Illinois the law is that athletes are taxed the full amount of their income, plus they have to pay the jock tax in other states. Sammy Sosa tried to get credit for taxes paid out of state and was denied.

[logan82]

rluzinski wrote:

It has everything to do with the time value of money. Whenever you are evaluating any contract, you have to start with the present value of the entire contract.

I know that the value of money goes down over time and that is most of the reason for back loading. In this case though, it seems to be very heavily back loaded. We are going to end up paying $27M($12.5M each year + $2M buyout for 2011) over the last 2 years when we paid $14M for the first 2.

[GAME05]

The Yankees will go after CC no matter who else they get.

That's my thought, too, and Peavey is relatively cheap for a No. 1 starter. The Yankees have $80 million coming off their books this year, so I'd only imagine they're going to spend every penny of it, plus piling on the superstars is a nice way to move into a new stadium.

[PeaveyFury]

ESPN took Doug's quote and ran with it, completely missing that he was likely joking and also that his name isn't Bob.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3706123

[logan82]

Still with the Bob Melvin?