Mike Mussina Hall of Fame Trial

[crewcrazy]

Ken Rosenthal's article: Yanks' Mussina to retire after first 20-win season

 

Final numbers: 270-153, 3.68 ERA, 123 ERA+, 1.192 WHIP, 2813 strikeouts, 795 walks, 3562 2/3 IP in 18 MLB seasons.

 

So I guess it's only logical to debate whether or not Mussina's a future Hall of Famer. I have a few Yankees fans who say it's not even a question, but I'm a bit more skeptical -- to me, the win and strikeout totals are more a result of being very good every year during a very long career for a pitcher, and he was the beneficiary of playing on some very good teams that padded the W/L record -- his only losing seasons were 1991 when he went 4-5 in 12 starts (his first season) and 11-15 in 2000 (his last year in Baltimore, that team went 74-88). Very good career overall, but I'm still hesitant to call him a future inductee into Cooperstown.

 

 

(link repair --1992)

[Brian the Automator]

He's pretty much the epitome of borderline HOFer. Of Baseball-Reference's 10 most comparable players, 5 of 10 are in cooperstown. I've always liked Mussina, but the closest he's gotten to the Cy Young was #2, once in 1999. I'm amazed at how healthy he had been in his career. They don't make 'em like Moose anymore.

 

Without 300 wins or 3000 k's, I don't think he makes it.

[Crewin06]

Yeah I don't know. On name recognition you would say yes, but if you look at him he was only a 5 time all-star, didn't get 300 wins only finished above 4th place in Cy Young voting once. He was a very good pitcher for a long period of time. Is that enough to get into Cooperstown? I don't know.

[splitterpfj]

You beat me to it with this thread, I was going to do a Hall of Fame Trial for Mussina.

 

I still will, if you'd like to see it, but please give me a few days.

[bjkrautk]

In his 17th full season, he finally shed the "Best pitcher to never win 20 games in a season" tag. Congratulations to him on that.

 

I think he'll probably get in to Cooperstown, but it will take awhile.

[EinhornIsFinkle]

If Bert or Jack can't get in he certainly won't.

[RU Rah Rah]

Based on the typical benchmarks (not saying that they are legit), I'd have to say "no" for Cooperstown. No 300 wins, no Cy Young Award, 20 wins only once, only a 5-time All Star. A very good career, but not quite HOF material.

[MJLiverock]

But Bert or Jack weren't Yankees. I am only half kidding.

[kramnoj]

Are there recent examples of Yankees who undeservedly went into the HoF?

 

Mussina as a HoFer probably depends on how big one's HoF is. He's not among the truly elite. I would say he's in the upper echelon of the 2nd tier of pitchers. He fits in my personal HoF. It will be interesting to see how the HoF does treat him. Chris Jaffe at THT has been tracking HoF patterns and has noted that recent elections are voting in fewer players. If that trend continues, Mussina will have to wait in line behind his contemporaries.

[pogokat]

Moose was a better pitcher in every way than jack morris in an ra with lots more offense...in the toughest division in the big leagues...

 

he's no slam dunk, but he's a hall of famer...definitely more than Jack morris...Moose has more wins and k's... plus a considerably lower whip and ERA...he was really good for a really long time...

[AdvantageSchneider]

Are there recent examples of Yankees who undeservedly went into the HoF?

Phil Rizzuto 1994. Don't know if that's recent enough for you. Goose Gossage?

[RU Rah Rah]

I'd at least give him points for going out (somewhat?) on top and not trying to eke his way to 300 wins.

[RyDogg66]

As mentioned above, he fits perfectly into the Burt Blyleven/Jack Morris category. Im sure in 20 years ESPN will be interviewing him about how long he has been shafted by HOF.

[JimH5]

The difficulty with Mussina is that he's pitching at the same time as some obvious lockdown HOF guys. . .Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Roger Clemens & Pedro Martinez. In my mind, he'd come in a distant 7th behind them, and maybe 8th if you throw Schilling's name into that mix.

 

And as a side note. . .even as durable as Mussina has been, it's weird to see that he's still 1400 IP behind Blyleven.

[Fatter than Joey]

Are there recent examples of Yankees who undeservedly went into the HoF?

 

Not really -- Rizzuto for sure -- I was never big on Catfish Hunter, either -- but he was as famous as an Athletic....

 

Yet the biggest Yankees of the 70s, (Munson), and 80s/90s (Mattingly) are not even close.

 

It's not like the HOF is littered with undeserving Yankees -- the team I would guess has the most undeserving members would be the Giants or maybe the Cardinals -- and that had nothing to do with the writers.

[MJLiverock]

As I said, I was half kidding but am getting prepared for the onslaught of sports writers and ESPN talking about how Mussina deserves to get in but never mentioning Blyleven or Morris. I think it is just my cynical side coming through.

 

It does beg the question of will 300 wins be a requirement for starting pitchers going forward since there will be so few of them in the future given how pitchers decisions are restricted by pitch counts, bullpen use, and skipping starts.

 

When I looked at Mussina's stats above, the first person who came to mind was Blyleven. A guy who amassed some nice stats, was never the best in the league but consistently a good pitcher.

[fondybrewfan]

I am pretty sure if Derek Jeter retired right now he would make the hall of fame on the first ballot despite not having hall of fame numbers. He will get to 3,000 hits though so he will be a shoe in even if he is completely over rated.

 

I don't think Mussina deserves to be in. I would much rather vote in a guy who was the best there is for a 7-10 year stretch than a guy who was good for 15-20 years but never the best. HOF should be reserved for the best players in history, if weren't one of the best players in your era, you shouldn't get in.

[dlk9s]

Shockingly, Skip Bayless made a point on ESPN First Take this morning that I thought was a decent one. He felt that if there is a question, a debate about whether or not someone should be in the HOF, then they shouldn't make it. I'm not saying I completely agree with that, but I can see his point.

 

So, based on that theory, Mussina shouldn't be in the HOF.

[pogokat]

then neither should like 95% of the guys in the hall...it should be ruth, aaron, mays, and walter johnson...

 

it could be the corner of fame instead of the hall...

[Baldkin]

Its odd, Joe Posnanski just wrote an article on this....

 

http://joeposnanski.com/J...2008/11/17/moose-hunting/

 

I'm sort of torn on the issue, personally. I think he'll get in, and I won't be upset if he does.

[joepepsi]

He was the 2nd or 3rd best right hadned pitcher in the league from 1992-2003. Only Clemens was better, then Pedro when he came to Boston in 1998. That's 12 years as a dominant major league starter. ( of his 17 full season he finished in the top 6 for Cy Young. He's every bit the pitcher Jim Palmer was. It's not Yankee bias for me; I hate the Yankees. He's a HOF'er.

[patrickgpe]

stuff like this makes me feel old. I remember him coming up as a rookie in Baltimore and is now retiring after playing for 17 years.

[RU Rah Rah]

Wait, I am amending my earlier statement regarding his merits as a potential member of the HOF. The NY Times ran a nice piece on him yesterday, and it included this factoid: Moose frequently wore vintage 80's t-shirts, including one bearing the slogan, "Abe Froman: Sausage King of Chicago."

[BrewCrewForever]

Baseball-Reference.com did a great piece on him yesterday for there stat of the day. Says he is for sure a HOF and they back it up. Link

[splitterpfj]

I hope you like it. To me, this is as close as you can come without a clear choice, he could go in, or he could not.

 

link