any thought on this Trade that didn't happen

[lcbj68c]

I think too much is made about Hardy not willing to switch positions. Switching positions is probably not good for him professional and therefore personally. Suppose you are the President of Finance at your company. Now your company wants you to move to the President of Marketing? Sure, they are both dealing in dollars like Hardy would still be in the infield, but Marketing is a different creature than Finance, 3b is a different creature than SS. Just because your company asks you to jump, doesn't mean you should be asking, "how high". Despite lack of speed, medium range, and cold streaks at the plate, J.J. Hardy has an above average arm and above average power for SS. He'd be doing his family and his career a dis-service by jumping at a position change. The problem on this lies with DM and Yost/Macha. As a company, if you've got two damn good Presidents of Finance, you write JJ's name down at 2B or 3B and deal with the whinning. What's he going do??...put himself on the bench??....Quit?? If he don't like it..he knows where the door is! Too much in this organization seems to be handled with kid gloves. I suspect it comes from above Macha however, he seems to be the one who is constantly biting his lip and is ready to explode yet goes with the status quo of babying these guys.

[The Truth]

If Alex Rodriquez can switch positions, so can JJ. This is all about $$$, and is short-sighted at that. Its not as if all the GM's in MLB are going to suddenly forget that JJ is an above-average fielding SS. Players that aren't "team-first", especially players that are hitting .230 and run like a 35 year old catcher, should not be part of the Brewers' long term plans.

[derflotr]

Why on earth would they want to move JJ from a position he excels to a position where they've got two guys outproducing him and a third waiting in the wings at AAA? He's a top-flight defensive SS - he's worth more on the trade market this offseason than at 3B for the Brewers.

[logan82]

I doubt moving Hardy and adding Escobar's bat or defense would make us a better team than our current infield configuration. Moving Hardy makes little sense to me unless it is to a different team for a pitcher.

[endaround]

People tend to really over estimate Escobar's bat. Having Hardy and Escobar in the same lineup never made any sense even when Weeks got hurt.

[TheCrew07]

or you continually underestimate his bat, Escobar doesn't need to hit 20 HRs to be a valuable baseball player.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

or you continually underestimate his bat, Escobar doesn't need to hit 20 HRs to be a valuable baseball player.

He does to Doug Melvin. If he's ready, he'd be here by now.

 

I'm still banging this drum... I think Escobar gets his September call-up, gets a couple starts, and gets traded in the offseason. He's too NL to play for the Melvin-era Brewers.

[kramnoj]

I don't think there's any reason to believe that Melvin doesn't greatly value Escobar's defense. Escobar isn't playing in the majors right now because he wouldn't be an upgrade anywhere for the team.

[GoldGloveSS06]

I don't think Melvin is enamored with power as much as Jack Z. was. Though I think it's pretty easy to see we are a team predicated on power, I think any baseball fan would understand the importance of people getting on base for Braun and Prince. I think Escobar fits that mold. Will he have has growing pains? Sure. But I don't think he gets traded (knock on wood).

[The Truth]

The reason you move Hardy is because Escobar is a better defensive player than Hardy. And brings much needed speed to the lineup. With Hardy at 3B the Brewers would the very best fielding left side of the infield in MLB...

 

Then again, considering Hardy's bat this season, he doesn't deserve to startt, but that another issue, whether you believe he'll return to the offensive production of '08 and the 2nd half of '07.

 

When Weeks got hurt, if Hardy had moved to 3B and they brought up Alcides with Casey and Counsell playing 2B, they wouldn't have had to trade for Lopez. Those chips used to trade for Lopez could have perhaps brought in some bullpen help... it is a domino effect

[nate82]

When Weeks got hurt, if Hardy had moved to 3B and they brought up Alcides with Casey and Counsell playing 2B, they wouldn't have had to trade for Lopez. Those chips used to trade for Lopez could have perhaps brought in some bullpen help... it is a domino effect

No you couldn't be farther from the truth. First Hardly would have pouted and stomped his feet and wouldn't even think about playing 3B so that would have been out of the question. Think what Bill Hall did last year when asking for a trade but this time multiply that by 100 of the crying and complaining from Hardly. For the other part I don't see what the Brewers traded for Lopez getting much other than a Lopez type of a player.

[endaround]

Escobar isn't an on base guy, he's a number 8 hitter at this stage or 7 given the black hole that is Kendall. Heether, Counsell, McGehee, Hall, and Gamel are all better options with all but Gamel being very good defensively.

 

And the Brewers have a lots of speed, they just don't run

[nate82]

Escobar isn't an on base guy, he's a number 8 hitter at this stage or 7 given the black hole that is Kendall. Heether, Counsell, McGehee, Hall, and Gamel are all better options with all but Gamel being very good defensively.

 

And the Brewers have a lots of speed, they just don't run

Except Hardly is hitting worse than what Escobar's MLE would be

 

	AB	H	2B	3B	HR	W	IW	HP	K	SH	SF	GDP		AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS	BABIP		GB%	LD%	FB%	IF/F
[MLE] Overall	402	106	19	4	2	19	2	3	64	17	1	13		0.264	0.301	0.346	0.647	0.310		52.4%	19.5%	27.8%	15.0%

Hardly

SEASON	TEAM	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
2009	Mil	95	352	45	81	13	2	11	45	33	69	0	1	.230	.296	.372	.668

So you give up about .021 OPS for a #7 or #8 hitter which Hardly is right now. Escobar also gives you more speed yes I know the team doesn't need more speed but it never hurts to have more speed on your team. It is not like Escobar will be replacing Hardly in the #2 or #5 spot in the lineup he would be replacing him at the #7 or #8 spot. Hardly needs to be traded this off season for pitching no more holding back Escobar.

[dadofandrew]

Escobar compares very nicely with other 22 year-old SS's in AAA, or what they did when they were in AAA at 22. He's getting better every year, as his walk rate keeps improving despite better pitching, and he'll continue to add power as he matures. He won't be a #1 or #2 hitter right away, but he should be in a couple years.

[nate82]

MLB Trade Rumors has an article up with Buster Olney's latest thoughts.

 

Kazmir may still be a possibility for the Brewers this season yet and maybe even Crawford. A Hart for Crawford trade would be a lateral trade for the Rays and the Brewers. The Brewers would get a left handed hitting Hart and the Rays would get a right handed hitting Crawford. Another name that could be in talks with the Rays could be McGehee or Weeks maybe even Parra but pitching really isn't a problem for the Rays so I am going to guess it will be either for an OF, 2B, 1B, or SS. Bartlett is about 30 and I'm not sure Hardy makes sense but a Hardy and Salome for Kazmir plus a minor prospect may get that done.

 

Players that I see the Rays targeting from the Brewers include: Hardy, Escobar, Lawrie, Gamel, Salome, and Lucroy. Gamel would probably be moved to 1B with Longoria entrenched at 3B with the Rays. Lorenzo Cain could also be a long shot but I'm not sure the Brewers would want to part with him being their only close legit OF prospect. This kind of trade makes to much sense for the Brewers and the Rays to actually happen.

[wibadgers23]

Kazmir may still be a possibility for the Brewers this season yet and maybe even Crawford. A Hart for Crawford trade would be a lateral trade for the Rays and the Brewers.

This season yet? I thought it was really hard to make trades after the deadline. Especially one of this magnitude.

[nate82]

This season yet? I thought it was really hard to make trades after the deadline. Especially one of this magnitude.

Supposedly there is a gentelemans rule that the GM's are following this year with the waiver trades plus adding in the economy into it I doubt teams are going to block these trades especially with a contract like Kazmir's and Crawford's.

[wibadgers23]

Makes sense, thanks nate. It'll be interesting to see if anything comes out of this.

[PeaveyFury]

No you couldn't be farther from the truth. First Hardly would have pouted and stomped his feet and wouldn't even think about playing 3B so that would have been out of the question. Think what Bill Hall did last year when asking for a trade but this time multiply that by 100 of the crying and complaining from Hardly.

 

Really, this is the level we're sinking to here?

[KCBrewerfan34]

No gentlemens agreement, there probably won't be alot of teams wanting to get stuck with the contracts, the team putting guys on waivers can just say to the claiming team, he's yours. Would you want Vernon Wells contract???

 

That being said I would absolutely love for the Brewers to get Crawford.

[CWSOmaha]

Yeah, I like the deal too. Too bad Hart's on the DL now!!

[nate82]

Yeah, I like the deal too. Too bad Hart's on the DL now!!

A trade like this wouldn't happen until the end of August.

[dadofandrew]

Isn't Bartlett an all-star? TB would have no use for Hardy. Hart will make an awful lot next year, as the only reason TB has to move Crawford is payroll.

[endaround]

Hart is making all of $3.25m this year. Hart is likely to make $12m for the next 2 years while Crawford will make $10m next year. Seems like a large reduction in salary to me for very little change in production.

[KCBrewerfan34]

No chance in hell does Hart double his salary. end you're way high by I'm guessing $2 million dollars over the next 2 years. Hart is very average at best