job-seeker contacts/advice

[madbad2000]

38 minutes ago, homer said:

In a few years I'll be interested to see comparisons of in-person vs hybrid vs remote companies and how that impacts retention rates and job satisfaction. My personal opinion (based almost entirely off of larger societal trends and not on productivity) is that remote is good for the individual and bad for society.  Full disclosure - I was 100% in the office pre 2020 and am now about 98% remote. If the office was within 20 min I'd probably go in 2x a week. I also don't have kids. Next year I have to go into the office for maybe 10 days. I can choose to go in more often if I want.

I'm not sure I agree that remote work is bad for society.  There have been plenty of great examples of where remote work has societal benefits:  less commuting time/air pollution, more time for rest/exercise, less exposure to germs/healthy society.  Many desire the reduction in stress that remote provides.  I loved that I had pre-school age children at home while I was remote working.  I was able to have all 3 meals with my full family during the day and interact with them throughout the day.  If I'm in office, I only see them for the 3 hours between getting home in the evening and their bed time.  My productivity is consistently higher at home than the office.  My meeting invites are probably only 25% of what they were pre-pandemic which gives me far more work time to be productive than getting stopped and pulled into a discussion.  I still collaborate with my colleagues, but it's a 5 minute phone call versus a 30-45 min meeting.  I think the biggest thing about remote work is that it's forcing changes in the workplace/work force more quickly than the current leadership was able to predict or handle.  I think the change to remote work was invevitable, but would have been a more gradual change as foreward thinking leaders take the plunge and show success.  This success motivates others to try and then it spreads through the work force as an option that would fit with more people who seek that out.  You get a more gradual acceptance at leadership levels as the more archaic leaders are phased out by attrition/retirement and other leaders move forward that embrace it.  The pandemic did not really lets this transition happen and the old way was forced to accept the new way.  No one likes that, especially those stuck in their ways which is why they are now trying to make the office great again.  My prediction is that remote work will be the most productive since it will become the most competitive and acquire the best employees.  I'm just waiting for the change in pay where companies will realize they can pay people less to work remotely and lower their costs on office expenses as employees will gladly take a pay cut to achieve the many benefits of working from home.

[madbad2000]

Just now, jerichoholicninja said:

When I started my job search 2 years ago I figured that, as someone who actually wanted to work on site, it would be pretty easy to find something. Unfortunately 95% of the jobs in my area are either manufacturing/manual labor or healthcare and I have zero experience/qualifications or interest in doing either of those things. I'm lucky to have gotten the job I have now but I almost certainly would have left by now if I could actually find something else.

This right here is the thing that far too many people don't understand or are unwilling to do.  There is no right that says there has to be good jobs at what you want to do in your area.  We have the ability to make choices.  If someone wants to live in a certain area, they have to accept a trade off of their employment opportunities or be financially independant.  There are a lot of jobs out there right now and those that have flexibility to go wherever they are can really reap the benefits of that.  And these moves do not have to be permanent.  Move to get a job/experience, then parlay that into another job in your old stomping grounds or somewhere else that fits your work/life goals.  That's not a new posture post pandemic/remote environment.  I would argue that flexibility of where you live is a big benefit of remote work.  Being able to bring good quality jobs to all areas of the United States without having to stack everyone on top of each other in major metorpolitan areas. Maybe I'm biased since my experiences have led me all over the US successfully.

[homer]

9 minutes ago, madbad2000 said:

I'm not sure I agree that remote work is bad for society.  There have been plenty of great examples of where remote work has societal benefits:  less commuting time/air pollution, more time for rest/exercise, less exposure to germs/healthy society.  Many desire the reduction in stress that remote provides.  I loved that I had pre-school age children at home while I was remote working.  I was able to have all 3 meals with my full family during the day and interact with them throughout the day.  If I'm in office, I only see them for the 3 hours between getting home in the evening and their bed time.  My productivity is consistently higher at home than the office.  My meeting invites are probably only 25% of what they were pre-pandemic which gives me far more work time to be productive than getting stopped and pulled into a discussion.  I still collaborate with my colleagues, but it's a 5 minute phone call versus a 30-45 min meeting.  I think the biggest thing about remote work is that it's forcing changes in the workplace/work force more quickly than the current leadership was able to predict or handle.  I think the change to remote work was invevitable, but would have been a more gradual change as foreward thinking leaders take the plunge and show success.  This success motivates others to try and then it spreads through the work force as an option that would fit with more people who seek that out.  You get a more gradual acceptance at leadership levels as the more archaic leaders are phased out by attrition/retirement and other leaders move forward that embrace it.  The pandemic did not really lets this transition happen and the old way was forced to accept the new way.  No one likes that, especially those stuck in their ways which is why they are now trying to make the office great again.  My prediction is that remote work will be the most productive since it will become the most competitive and acquire the best employees.  I'm just waiting for the change in pay where companies will realize they can pay people less to work remotely and lower their costs on office expenses as employees will gladly take a pay cut to achieve the many benefits of working from home.

Yeah I hesitated to even put that line in my post as I knew it would elicit some disagreement. I come at it more from the perspective of how our society and culture has evolved.

I realize this is some philosophical, sociological stuff that may not resonate but....we have so few communal experiences today. We used to all watch the same TV shows, watch the same news shows, same movies. We knew all our neighbors, we'd know people from church, we all went to the same couple of schools. We'd all experience a commute, we'd see the same people in the lunch room. Etc. etc. We had tighter bonds as a culture.

Now we're much more divided - geographically people live farther from city centers and politically, well, that's obvious. I can't help but think that a lot of societal ills are a result of that division. As an example. depression and suicide have steadily risen for the last 20+ years across all demographics. Civility seems to be an afterthought now. Some of that is due to technology but some of it is because we just don't hang around each other as much.

No in-person jobs are not a panacea by any means but not having it is just one less thing to connect us. Just my two cents.

[madbad2000]

6 minutes ago, homer said:

Yeah I hesitated to even put that line in my post as I knew it would elicit some disagreement. I come at it more from the perspective of how our society and culture has evolved.

I realize this is some philosophical, sociological stuff that may not resonate but....we have so few communal experiences today. We used to all watch the same TV shows, watch the same news shows, same movies. We knew all our neighbors, we'd know people from church, we all went to the same couple of schools. We'd all experience a commute, we'd see the same people in the lunch room. Etc. etc. We had tighter bonds as a culture.

Now we're much more divided - geographically people live farther from city centers and politically, well, that's obvious. I can't help but think that a lot of societal ills are a result of that division. As an example. depression and suicide have steadily risen for the last 20+ years across all demographics. Civility seems to be an afterthought now. Some of that is due to technology but some of it is because we just don't hang around each other as much.

No in-person jobs are not a panacea by any means but not having it is just one less thing to connect us. Just my two cents.

I understand the debate and the examples you provided are interesting to consider.  Maybe I'm an old grouch, but I would probably put a lot of that on technology and likely the internet.  For all the good it does, it has really added/reinforced so many other bad things to include changes in communication mores/lack of tact, isolation from others and the continual reinforement of any position without point/counterpoint.  The ability to communicate over the internet also facilitates remote working capability.

Like so many other high level debates, there is not a one size fits all solution.  For all the examples you provided of the past with community, I guarantee there are many people who hated that homogenous society and interactions.  We may actually be evolving into an ideal labor posture with those that want to remote work having that ability and those that want other permutations having that ability.  It will absolutely take time to adjust those into each position without forcing a remote worker back into the office or an in-person favorite having to work at home.

[jerichoholicninja]

19 minutes ago, homer said:

Yeah I hesitated to even put that line in my post as I knew it would elicit some disagreement. I come at it more from the perspective of how our society and culture has evolved.

I realize this is some philosophical, sociological stuff that may not resonate but....we have so few communal experiences today. We used to all watch the same TV shows, watch the same news shows, same movies. We knew all our neighbors, we'd know people from church, we all went to the same couple of schools. We'd all experience a commute, we'd see the same people in the lunch room. Etc. etc. We had tighter bonds as a culture.

Now we're much more divided - geographically people live farther from city centers and politically, well, that's obvious. I can't help but think that a lot of societal ills are a result of that division. As an example. depression and suicide have steadily risen for the last 20+ years across all demographics. Civility seems to be an afterthought now. Some of that is due to technology but some of it is because we just don't hang around each other as much.

No in-person jobs are not a panacea by any means but not having it is just one less thing to connect us. Just my two cents.

I totally agree with everything you've said here. Almost everything about life these days is about how I can I further insulate myself from other people. Or more likely just people I don't like because of whatever reasons I have. Lack of commute is often thrown around as the major benefit of remote work but the other one I hear almost as much is that I don't have to talked to/be bothered by other people in the office. Some people that works but not everyone. I didn't realize how much of a social person I was or needed it until I started staying home with my kids. After a few months I went crazy from it.

[CheezWizHed]

I lead a team of over 20 software engineers plus another team in a low cost country.  Remote work is pretty important because not everyone we work with is local.  So in 2020, it took us a bit to adjust, but we mainly had setup things to work remotely anyway, so it wasn't that big of a deal.  We did notice that project teams worked great... but the team bonds across projects was weak. People simply didn't get to meet and work with those people.  I just don't wan to see the "old school if I don't see you, you must not be working hard" thinking to return. 

Yes, there will always be people slacking off.  That goes the same in the office too... But working from home has made people on my team happier. It gives them better home and work life balance. It gives them better flexibility to deal with kids, spouse, auto, whatever life throws at you issues.  I'll have people log in late at night or on weekends...just because they had something pop in their heads. 

Yes, my company suddenly feels the need to heavy-hand it and push people back on the office... despite most teams working well this way.

It does take a unique job to be fully remote (I do have a few employees that work this way) and it is even riskier to hire someone right away as fully remote.  But having hybrid workers should be a "norm" for most office workers.  Let us gain something good from 2020!

[LouisEly]

1 hour ago, CheezWizHed said:

Let us gain something good from 2020!

If we learn only one thing from 2020, it's that employers should have a sick leave policy that encourages people to stay home when sick.   Have generous sick leave limits.  Don't punish people for staying at home when they're sick.

[TURBO]

On 9/1/2023 at 11:51 AM, madbad2000 said:

...employees will gladly take a pay cut to achieve the many benefits of working from home.

Ummm, "gladly?"

I'm not going to get too much into this conversation, but the word gladly doesn't belong in any conversation where people are taking pay-cuts.

[madbad2000]

27 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Ummm, "gladly?"

I'm not going to get too much into this conversation, but the word gladly doesn't belong in any conversation where people are taking pay-cuts.

Yes, gladly, voluntarily and happily taking these cuts in salary.  The benefits of remote work, cost savings and overall improvements in family life/health..absolutely they are gladly taking pay cuts.  And I'm not talking insignificant either.  Im seeing it in my field and they can be in the $10/20k range.  I've seen reports of people taking $35k cuts to maintain their remote status.  We are in a very different work environment where other things are prioritized over achieving every last cent at whatever cost that entails.

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't think all the crap I've had to deal with job hunting in my life is unique to someone of my age but I wish I really would have documented it better as I feel it would make a pretty good book someday when it's no longer depressing to think about.

The book would open with the story of the first job I ever applied for. I was going to be graduating from college in December and I applied for the job the week of Thanksgiving. I had a friend who worked there who was involved with their hiring but wasn't involved with this position. Mid-December I asked him if he knew where they were in the process and he said he would look into it. He told me they weren't going to making a decision until after the new year. Literally the next day I got a letter in the mail saying they offered the position to someone else and they accepted it. Looking back it's crazy to think that I actually got a letter in the mail about a position I wasn't even interviewed for but that experience pretty much set the stage everything else.

Which brings me to two situations I've had in the last few weeks.

On October 3, I sent a cold email to the director at a place I would really like to work at talking about how much I would really like to work there and why I would be a fit. The first time I've ever done that in my life. We exchange emails throughout the day and eventually he invites me to have lunch with him the following week. They are looking to budget for another position for 2024 and he thinks I could be a fit and they may have some projects for me beforehand. Holy crap! So I show up at the office for the meeting and I'm told he's out sick so I reschedule for two days later. That morning I get a call that he's still out sick and he'll reach out to reschedule. I let the rest of the week and the weekend go by and then on Monday I email saying I hope he's feeling better and I'm still available to meet. No response for days. On Friday I just happen to be in the area so I stopped in just to show my face and see if we could reschedule. When I get there they tell me he's no longer an employee there. I don't know any details but it seems like he got canned rather abruptly based on the timeline of my emails with him. I actually had an in at a place I wanted to be at and he got fired. A total shocker but somehow not surprising based on my history.

Also, the week of my scheduled meetings with the guy mentioned above I had an interview for a job at a different place on Friday. Four days later they offered me the job.

A real rollercoaster of highs and lows.

[CheezWizHed]

There is a practice that I've noticed on LinkedIn and Indeed where companies post a job opening at various locations with a hybrid or remote attribute.  Then when you got to apply, the job is listed at some location where they undoubtedly are having problems finding people... 

Like that helps??? It just annoys people to start an application and find out the job doesn't actually meet the description.  They aren't getting more applications that way....

[LouisEly]

The more annoying practice is companies not taking down job postings when they have already been filled, are in final interviews, or are on a hiring freeze.  It's gotten to the point where when a job has over 200 applicants (not uncommon) I don't even bother anymore.

It's more than annoying - filling out hundreds of applications and cover letters, only to never hear anything back or be told the position has been filled, affects people's mental health.

[LouisEly]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careers/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-a-job-right-now-despite-low-unemployment/ar-BB1hGi3K?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=52abbd563ad34ccc80a16d087a62fb83&ei=32

Everything I experienced.  Outside of healthcare and hospitality, it's tough sledding. 

[CheezWizHed]

On 2/4/2024 at 8:04 PM, LouisEly said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careers/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-a-job-right-now-despite-low-unemployment/ar-BB1hGi3K?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=52abbd563ad34ccc80a16d087a62fb83&ei=32

Everything I experienced.  Outside of healthcare and hospitality, it's tough sledding. 

Congrats on getting a job!

[zurch1818]

My supervisor said I'm likely going to have to let someone go in my team of 5 people due to the current slowdown in our work. For the last 2 quarters, we were beyond busy, so this is not easy thing to do.

To complicate things more, because we had team a team member get licensed and we were crazy busy, we actually have another team member starting in May after they graduate.

I wish I knew what to do.

[LouisEly]

6 hours ago, zurch1818 said:

My supervisor said I'm likely going to have to let someone go in my team of 5 people due to the current slowdown in our work. For the last 2 quarters, we were beyond busy, so this is not easy thing to do.

To complicate things more, because we had team a team member get licensed and we were crazy busy, we actually have another team member starting in May after they graduate.

I wish I knew what to do.

What I would recommend is to:

• Pull the offer for the upcoming graduate.  This is not an uncommon situation.  They have over three months to find a new job. 
• Tell the new graduate:
  • Why you have to pull the offer
  • That you will absolutely be a reference for them in their job search and write a letter to anyone they interview with explaining the situation and why you chose to hire them in the first place
  • That you will post on LinkedIn to your network and to any professional organizations for your occupation/industry the situation, a recommendation for this candidate, and ask if anyone is hiring
  • You will help in their job search in any way you can

It sucks, but from my 30,000 foot view I think that's the best course of action.  I don't think the optics will be good if you let someone go and then hire the graduate a couple of months later.

[Jimbo]

21 hours ago, LouisEly said:

It sucks, but from my 30,000 foot view I think that's the best course of action.  I don't think the optics will be good if you let someone go and then hire the graduate a couple of months later.

Not doing this could lead to a case of age discrimination.

 

[LouisEly]

8 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Not doing this could lead to a case of age discrimination.

 

Not quite clear on how you're wording this, but if you let go of someone who is over 40 and then hire a graduate a few months later that could be a case for an age discrimination lawsuit (over 40 is a protected class) by the person you let go.

I think that's what you mean, but the wording is a little unclear to me.

[zurch1818]

Thanks for the advice. Just to give another update, I met again with my supervisor today and it sounds like we may be ok for the shorter term as we landed a couple projects. I brought up the idea of cross training people on my team to help with this new project and he thought that was a possibility. I just don't like letting good structural engineers go because they are hard to find/train. In the long run, it's almost a bigger investment to lose them and rehire that it would have been to just keep them...especially if the new hire isn't what you were expecting. It's one position...not a whole team.

We also discussed this new hire and my supervisor wants to just stay the course. He said if our group can't take him on, another department could definitely use him. I want to communicate that with the candidate so he isn't blindsided. The plan in the long run would be to have him join our team.

[nate82]

So with full return to office we have lost two people already with at least four looking for new jobs and of those four one or two may have offers.  Interviewing for the two who left is just ugggg.  I like my job but full RTTO is not something I am looking forward to.  

[GAME05]

Maybe more a rant than a question. I have to remember that I'm not some super-employee so therefore any criticism and ramped-up control of my work isn't necessarily undue. But that control is also ramping up bigly. I've been told by another this is all temporary nervousness because of an incoming new person (set a good impression and all that), but I'm doubtful of it being temporary. And I guess by the time the next openings are listed, I'll have had a chance to see how temporary these things are or not.

The tradeoff has always kinda been that we're in the middle of nowhere and the social scene around us is really bad, and so the working life in this small place is more relaxed in return (not that we don't do anything), kinda the opposite of a busy place near a city.

This shift has me thinking about transferring somewhere new. Or maybe I'm taking that wrong attitude of "As soon a minor challenge comes, leave." 

I don't entirely want to move (pain in the rear and not cheap) but I don't really like my church (which I drive 1.5 hours to), my internet speed (once the leaves come out even Youtube buffers but there's a tiny chance we'll get fiber toward the end of the year) and that everything else is also far away. One friend I golf with every three months (though that should increase soon) I'll miss, but that's it. A new place is probably a higher workload but better social/outdoor opportunities and a better connection to people via internet speed. Less law enforcement in that direction, which is an aspect of the job I don't totally love, anyway; would be more education which is exhausting for me (I put a lot of energy into it, plus leading a group of kids as an introvert is draining) but it's also a talent so I should be doing more of it, regardless. I've got 6-7 years left, so I've got one move in me remaining.

I'm thinking closer to the coast, not that I grew up with any love for it in Wisconsin.

[GAME05]

Cripes it's like I can't do anything right. Stuck at the house an extra 30 minutes for lunch because some propane workers were in my driveway blocking it, but I guess I was still being watched and get a sarcastic text asking if I'm gonna stay at home the rest of the day. Can't park right, can't send an email right, can't paint right.....

edit: Just the incessant criticism. Today a maintenance guy said he had to pick his kid up early from daycare because they lost power. I said "You'd think a place with little kids would have a generator for backup." A nothing comment, maybe even a stupid one, but the reply was "Why don't you mind your own f'n business."

[MilwaukeeBeers]

I am gonna be pretty vulnerable on this post. I am 29 years old and have never felt so stuck career wise. I am busting my rear end now more than ever with little to show for it. I am a (now) remote insurance broker. A lot of serious changes have happened in the past two months. Our small start up has merged with another company and just like that my commission basically halved. I am a top performer and I am starting to just plateau. I went from hitting my yearly financial goals to only making 60% of it. Now it is projected for worse. It is the offseason so to speak and I am an independent contractor since the start of January. It is really feast or famine in this format. They are now including bs deductions to our pay as well for lacking proficient client retention. Even though we have a team for this and I have followed their protocols to a T. 

I just am so disheartened and really don't know where to turn next. Any type of guidance would be greatly appreciated. I have my degree in biology, so I have been working at getting my foot in the door for medical device sales but after a couple phone interviews it is the classic ghosting. I am willing to change my career field entirely but I think sales is where I thrive. I have a good knack for connecting with people and I really enjoy doing so. Some nights go by and I feel like I am failing my 1 year old and wife (who is a K teacher) even though I am absolutely busting my rear end. 

[GAME05]

Would I be correct in thinking that with the merger, upped standards and reduced bonuses that they're basically hoping you all leave as opposed to layoffs and paying severance/unemployment?

Wish I had a connection in sales to point you to but it's been a long time since I've worked in magazines.

[LouisEly]

On 6/2/2025 at 12:42 PM, MilwaukeeBeers said:

I just am so disheartened and really don't know where to turn next.

Don't be disheartened.  Right now, not a lot of companies are hiring.  I spend 10 years in sales/sales management in the pharmaceutical and medical device industries and it is hard to break into them.  Took me a year of applications and interviews.

Companies are always looking for good salespeople.  In addition to medical device and biotech, look into lab service providers (Labcorp, etc.), other medical supplies (think of everything that goes into a hospital - surgical supplies, sterilization/disinfecting supplies, etc.), agricultural products (fertilizers, etc.), food products/ingredients/manufacturers, and others where having a base knowledge of biology could come in handy.  A guy I used to manage just got hired as an inside sales rep at Exact Sciences, and I don't think he had a lot of sales or biotech experience.  Inside sales could be an opportunity to work from home.

If you have a good relationship with your doctor/dentist/etc, ask the people in their office to recommend any companies that supply products and services to them.