Resigning Grandal & Moose

[TURBO]

I shudder at the thought of running another catcher out there not named Grandal. We can't appreciate how much his bat meant to us until he is gone.

 

Without him, we go from a top of the order offensive threat, to a bottom of the order below average offensive detriment. The difference will be striking.

 

If he walks, our offense takes a MAJOR hit, as there is no one on our current roster, or available that even sniffs Grandals jockstrap.

 

Offer him a 3 year deal, maximum, but pay the man.

[Devinep]

No doubt it’d be nice to have Grandal back. Also no doubt he will get a big contract. I hope the brewers try to retain him but stay reasonable. If he gets too expensive, pairing a cheap option like Vogt with Pina would be adequate and leave money for 3B, SS and pitching

[nate82]

No doubt it’d be nice to have Grandal back. Also no doubt he will get a big contract. I hope the brewers try to retain him but stay reasonable. If he gets too expensive, pairing a cheap option like Vogt with Pina would be adequate and leave money for 3B, SS and pitching

 

There really isn't an upgrade worth the money to invest in free agency at SS or 3B. At 3B you have Rendon and unless you are ready to pay about double what Grandal is going to get in years and money it is not worth it there.

 

 

Beyond Grandal there isn't much available in free agency for upgrades offensively maybe Gregorius if you think he can bounce back or if you believe Donaldson has found the fountain of youth in Atlanta and will put up another good year or two.

 

If you are going to spend the money on offense it would be best to spend it on Grandal. Starting pitching there is more available and I would go after Wheeler or Odorizzi.

[rickh150]

Really enjoy Moose's talent and energy, but we need Grandal more at the catching position. Calling for both back is terribly improbable for financial reasons and for the fact that both will look for long deals elsewhere.. Getting just one is possible, not probable... if it's clear that we cannot get Grandal, then Moose is a possible.

[pacopete4]

What about Chirinos from Houston? He might be a guy that it only takes a one year deal. Steady and solid production for the last 3 season.

[MrTPlush]

So if one is adamant to sign Grandal and makes the assumption he and Moustakas both won’t return together:

 

Who on earth are you inserting at 3B that is affordable and isn’t breaking the bank...and probably not even close to denting the bank?

[Spencer Michaelis]

So if one is adamant to sign Grandal and makes the assumption he and Moustakas both won’t return together:

 

Who on earth are you inserting at 3B that is affordable and isn’t breaking the bank...and probably not even close to denting the bank?

Todd Frazier? He was basically average this year. But he might dent the bank. Otherwise yeah, I’m not sure...[sarcasm]maybe Braun?[/sarcasm]

[Jaylyn]

Someone is going to pay Grandal a big contract. A 31 year old catcher, when some are already complaining about 33 year old CF? Pass! Reds zeroing in on Yaz. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb/reds/2019/10/01/yasmani-grandal-cincinnati-reds-reportedly-interested-in-brewers-all-star-catcher/3836840002/

[AKCheesehead]

In my eyes not only is Moose more likely to be signed, he’s more likely to be worth the money, and also a bigger difference maker. Even if you want to theorize Shaw gets his mojo back Moose is also ok at 2b. Also Moustakas just doesn’t seem like a guy who is going to fall off a cliff.

 

I don’t think Grandal will either but a contract on him is really risky. It’s about at the juncture of when Toronto decided to pay Russell Martin. Seemed like a great idea at the time.

 

If we’re talking moose OR yaz I want moose. Nothing against Grandal exactly but it is very risky in my opinion.

[wntrtxn21]

Really enjoy Moose's talent and energy, but we need Grandal more at the catching position. Calling for both back is terribly improbable for financial reasons and for the fact that both will look for long deals elsewhere.. Getting just one is possible, not probable... if it's clear that we cannot get Grandal, then Moose is a possible.

 

If Moose is gone who do the Brewers have to play 3B? Shaw is a disaster and nothing he has shown says he will return to form any time soon. There is absolutely nothing on the farm at 3B and nothing remotely close to Moose in the FA pool that is as affordable as he is. If Grandal goes they at least have Pina. If Moose goes they have nothing.

[MrTPlush]

So if one is adamant to sign Grandal and makes the assumption he and Moustakas both won’t return together:

 

Who on earth are you inserting at 3B that is affordable and isn’t breaking the bank...and probably not even close to denting the bank?

Todd Frazier? He was basically average this year. But he might dent the bank. Otherwise yeah, I’m not sure...[sarcasm]maybe Braun?[/sarcasm]

 

That is where it gets dicey for me. If you are going to be stuck with an .850 OPS guy and a black hole...just sign the cheaper/less risky .850 OPS guy.

 

 

Grandal - $17mil .848 OPS

Frazier - $7mil .772 OPS

Pina - $2mil

$26million

 

Moustakas $12mil .845 OPS

Travis d'Arnaud/Jason Castro C - $7mil .782/.767 OPS

Pina - $2mil

$21million

 

Similar production, less money, less commitment, Pina isn't the starter, and less risky.

 

If you roll with Pina as the starter it would be nearly $10mil cheaper to just go with Moustakas. We could also go after Robinson Chirinos, but I fear he will get enough interest the cost/commitment may just make it too risky.

 

I like the catchers market this year, quite a few solid offensive guys after Grandal looking at it. Grandal is king, but I think the value is definitely elsewhere.

[RollieTime]

So if one is adamant to sign Grandal and makes the assumption he and Moustakas both won’t return together:

 

Who on earth are you inserting at 3B that is affordable and isn’t breaking the bank...and probably not even close to denting the bank?

Todd Frazier? He was basically average this year. But he might dent the bank. Otherwise yeah, I’m not sure...[sarcasm]maybe Braun?[/sarcasm]

 

That is where it gets dicey for me. If you are going to be stuck with an .850 OPS guy and a black hole...just sign the cheaper/less risky .850 OPS guy.

 

 

Grandal - $17mil .848 OPS

Frazier - $7mil .772 OPS

Pina - $2mil

$26million

 

Moustakas $12mil .845 OPS

Travis d'Arnaud/Jason Castro C - $7mil .782/.767 OPS

Pina - $2mil

$21million

 

Similar production, less money, less commitment, Pina isn't the starter, and less risky.

 

If you roll with Pina as the starter it would be nearly $10mil cheaper to just go with Moustakas. We could also go after Robinson Chirinos, but I fear he will get enough interest the cost/commitment may just make it too risky.

 

I like the catchers market this year, quite a few solid offensive guys after Grandal looking at it. Grandal is king, but I think the value is definitely elsewhere.

 

This is where I am. Sign a second tier catcher, bring back Moose, and have plenty left over to go out and get an upgrade at SS or in the rotation or possibly both.

[pacopete4]

I like that scenario but I'll keep Arica if it means upgrading pitching.

[MrTPlush]

I like that scenario but I'll keep Arica if it means upgrading pitching.

 

After we square away catcher and 3B it is tough to know what we can or cannot do. Unless you are Mr.92 and know the payroll numbers to heart.

 

If the above (or similar) happened I would like to resign Pomeranz and get some kind of veteran starter. I would guess that is about maxing out the pre season payroll. I am not too concerned about Arcia if we get a more competent offensive catcher. If we go with Pina as the starter then I would hope they find a better offensive SS.

[jjfanec]

MLB.com article talking about how good Grandal was this year. GMs are going to know this too

https://www.mlb.com/news/yasmani-grandal-is-the-top-free-agent-catcher-available

[TURBO]

Grandal is going to get paid, there is no doubt.

[long ball]

It really will be interesting to see what Grandal ends up signing for. If we are to believe the mets offer of 4/60mm last winter is accurate then we have a pretty good idea of what the floor is for a deal. (3/$15mm for a longer term deal or 1/$19mm for a 1 year deal)

 

Grandal isn't really a different player than he was last year and he's a year older. I'm skeptical that he far exceeds that mets offer from last year. I think 3/$54 with a club option makes some sense, but only 4 position players received deals at least 3 years long last winter (Harper, Machado, Pollock, and Escobar). Pretty much every other all star caliber player got 2 year deals. So 2/$38 also makes sense to me too.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Grandal had a very nice season offensively in a stadium that definitely plays into helping his offense, and stayed healthy all year. The only difference this year is that he no longer has losing a pick factored into signing him. Will that make a difference?

[TURBO]

2 for 38 million....I'd do that ASAP! I just don't want to do more than 2 to wrap him up.

[long ball]

There were more 3+ year deals in 2017/18. No perfect comps, but could support Grandal getting a 3-4 year deal. I don't think anything prior to 2017/18 is relevant since we saw such a dramatic shift in the free agent market that winter.

 

hosmer 8 years

Upton, Cain, Jd Martinez, 5 years

Cozart, Santana 3 years.

 

Although the Hosmer and cosart deals look bad. Santana deal looks ok, but he was already traded once. JD Martinez has been great and might opt out. Cain and Upton are sorta TBD, but probably going to be pretty bad in a year or two even if the up front end production was quite good.

[jjfanec]

2 for 38 million....I'd do that ASAP! I just don't want to do more than 2 to wrap him up.

 

Agreed. A two year deal would be perfect. Anything under $20 a year seems like a good value

[wntrtxn21]

ons. First off offensively Grandal had an .850 OPS compared to Pina at .725. That is a large difference, but not that incredible.

 

It is quite a large difference and Grandal did it while playing every day basically. I love Pina....as a backup. I think he's a perfect backup which means having a great starter is very valuable cause you never feel like you're missing a beat. I don't trust Pina's OPS to hold up that well if he's starting every day and I also don't expect him to play as much as Yaz which means our backup gets more time and we don't even really have a great option there either.

 

I think Pina has basically proven that he's a solid backup .. perhaps one of if not the best backup catchers in the league. But he wears down when depended on for a near everyday role. I think that if Grandal is not resigned, you at least have to find a platoon mate that can do a 50/50 playing time split with Pina. i don't know if they'd be willing to hand that role to Nottingham or Freitas.

 

I think you got your answer about Freitas and Nottingham this year when Pina got hurt. They think so little of Freitas they didn't trust him to catch even one inning. If they bring him back it will be as the AAA catcher again. Nottingham was used strictly in mopup duty and then only twice. If Stearns decides not to re-sign Grandal, he'll look outside the farm to find another catcher.

[balsamlaker]

Grandal was great this year, but analytical teams are not going to shell out a big long-term contract to a soon-to-be 31 y/o catcher. Posada is probably the most notable exception, otherwise many of the better catchers see a decline around their 31st or 32nd birthday. Molina, Posey, and Martin all made a lot of money this year with minimal production. A contract longer than two years would be quite a risk.

[pacopete4]

It’d be great if our GM could find a diamond in the rough via a trade at either of these positions so we don’t have to pay through the nose just to have a competent lineup.

[JohnBriggs12]

Don't forget, if Grandal leaves, that leaves Austin as the RH portion of the 1B platoon. He does have nice numbers against LHP in his career, but he strikes out a ton even by today's standards.