mark mathias & antoine kelly to texas for matt bush

[Jopal78]

11 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

It is a felony...but not a violent felony. He could have killed someone and it still wouldn't be a violent crime. He didn't head out to intentionally hurt someone...therefor not a violent crime in nature. I mean, it really doesn't change the reality of what happened, it just doesn't make it correct to glorify his wrongdoing with words like violent. 

Anyway, from a baseball standpoint I like the trade. Kelly is a good prospect...but has quite a few warts. He is very tall and has a goofy delivery. There is a really good chance he never harnesses the control to be a decent MLB player, let alone something special. Then you have the surgery issue to come back from. Honestly, guys like Kelley usually end up marginal and inconsistent bullpen arms.

 

He could be special, but there is a lot of reasons he probably won't be. Considering he is years away I am not too worried about losing him. This is just the reality of being a consistent contender. You have intriguing players that close in on Rule 5 eligibility and you simply have to trade them while you have a bit of leverage to get some value. When we were rebuilding we benefitted from being able to grab guys like Kelly from competing teams. 

As an aside battery typically has a component of intent. However, many jurisdictions also have statutes where recklessness in a situation where an individual should know great bodily harm will result, is ostensibly the same as intent. It all depends on the charges, I'm sure there's probably a law review article out there somewhere. 

Also, Bush has had multiple other run ins where he beat people including with a golf club. So to say it's incorrect to call him a violent felon is really splitting hairs. 

[NBBrewFan]

Rogers + Bush = Hader + back end of bullpen

The difference from Hader to Rogers is being offset by an improvement in our cast for the 6th/7th innings. The hit we took yesterday to the teams current abilities were reversed by the addition of Bush, which to me was the reason I didn't like the Hader trade (we need to get better NOW/THIS YEAR, not 3 years from now when most of the good players are gone). Are Ruiz/Gasser better than Kelly?  From all indications, yes so overall Sterns has shuffled the Major league deck and added assets to the prospect pool.  Great.  Now maybe getting a hitter would be nice.

[patrickgpe]

Personally I hope another move is made soon so we can move on. I think we know where we all stand on this. 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Seems like a perfect spot for a board administrator to step in and say "Point made, drop it." I get why it's allowed in the first place but isn't there a cap on how much someone can derail a conversation saying the same things over and over?

[Fear The Chorizo]

29 minutes ago, Austin Tatious said:

That’s fine.  You  don’t give a crap.  That’s your right.   Other people care.  It’s part of who he is and you’re in no position to dictate to other people how they should feel.  

pot meet kettle...

whom three other clubs SD, TOR and TB decided wasn't a good enough human to play for them.

I see you left out TX, the club Bush has pitched for the past 5ish seasons without issue after making changes to his life that have by all accounts made a significant difference.  

 

Losing Kelly hurts, but as others have mentioned his presence on the 40 man roster was going to be troublesome after this season with the amount of depth the Brewers now have working its way through the minors ahead of him that aren't yet included on it.  He's got talent but also still needs a lot of development time to become an effective pitcher at the MLB level, and carries more injury risk than most pitchers due to that shoulder surgery.  This type of move is more like dealing Luis Ortiz to Baltimore or Medeiros to the White Sox - talented arms that weren't fully developed but were about to run into Rule 5/40 man roster crunch issues if they remained in the Brewer organization.  Ortiz is now toiling away in AAA for the Giants as a reliever and Medeiros is currently a minor league free agent after the Angels released him from their AAA squad.

 

[MrTPlush]

Not only is Kelly likely years away from the MLB roster...but that isn't even considering potential slowdowns between now and then...or the fact he may not just be some instant sensation. Kelly could be a half decade away from being an impact arm on an MLB roster, if that ever even happens. 

It just isn't easy to burn a 40 man spot on him for years and then burn a spot on the MLB roster if he is struggling once he does debut. How much do we want to avoid improving the roster with known impact arms/bats just so we can hold onto Kelly for a half decade because he MIGHT be a good player someday. Probably more likely Bush puts up more WAR in his Brewers career than Kelly does in his entire life. 

[JosephC]

Matt Bush makes even the biggest drunks in Wisconsin look like mere lightweights-

https://www.draysbay.com/2011/3/19/2059081/matt-bush-the-road-to-recovery

And just think, the article was written a full year before he got that third DUI when he ran over the 72 year old on a motorcycle and the subsequent prison sentence.

 

[homer]

I think I'd feel differently if this was 2015 and he was just let out of jail. By all accounts, he's been a law abiding human for the last 7 years. 

[StearnsFTW]

I see the Twins just gave up 4 pitchers for Jorge Lopez, including their 10th ranked prospect (by one list anyway).

They get one more year of control, but that makes me feel better about what we gave up for Bush by comparison.

 

[torts]

18 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

Rogers + Bush = Hader + back end of bullpen

The difference from Hader to Rogers is being offset by an improvement in our cast for the 6th/7th innings. The hit we took yesterday to the teams current abilities were reversed by the addition of Bush, which to me was the reason I didn't like the Hader trade (we need to get better NOW/THIS YEAR, not 3 years from now when most of the good players are gone). Are Ruiz/Gasser better than Kelly?  From all indications, yes so overall Sterns has shuffled the Major league deck and added assets to the prospect pool.  Great.  Now maybe getting a hitter would be nice.

this is a good take on the trade IMO.  Bush still has years of control, too

 

Just now, JosephC said:

Matt Bush makes even the biggest drunks in Wisconsin look like mere lightweights-

https://www.draysbay.com/2011/3/19/2059081/matt-bush-the-road-to-recovery

And just think, the article was written a full year before he got that third DUI when he ran over the 72 year old on a motorcycle and the subsequent prison sentence.

 

good to note that article is also 11+ years old now.  

[Jopal78]

1 minute ago, MrTPlush said:

Not only is Kelly likely years away from the MLB roster...but that isn't even considering potential slowdowns between now and then...or the fact he may not just be some instant sensation. Kelly could be a half decade away from being an impact arm on an MLB roster, if that ever even happens. 

It just isn't easy to burn a 40 man spot on him for years and then burn a spot on the MLB roster if he is struggling once he does debut. How much do we want to avoid improving the roster with known impact arms/bats just so we can hold onto Kelly for a half decade because he MIGHT be a good player someday.

Kelly is walking 5 batters per 9 in High A, without dramatic improvements in his control he won't make the major leagues. Nobody knows if he's capable of making those changes, so it's no big loss in my opinion to trade him away especially given that they'd be using option years on him and a 40 man roster spot just to see if he can figure it out. 

[MrTPlush]

8 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Kelly is walking 5 batters per 9 in High A, without dramatic improvements in his control he won't make the major leagues. Nobody knows if he's capable of making those changes, so it's no big loss in my opinion to trade him away especially given that they'd be using option years on him and a 40 man roster spot just to see if he can figure it out. 

To be honest I am kinda glad we are in the position to trade these 40-man crunch players versus the flip side where one of the highlights of our sad season was the Wei-Chung Wang sideshow.?

[NBBrewFan]

9 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

To be honest I am kinda glad we are in the position to trade these 40-man crunch players versus the flip side where one of the highlights of our sad season was the Wei-Chung Wang sideshow.?

We used to queue up the "Everybody Have Fun Tonight" song when he was sighted (too infrequently pitched to make it worthwhile) then made a margarita to top it off.

[AdvantageSchneider]

4 hours ago, torts said:

they sold KRod shirts, and people had no problem supporting him.  

Krod was never convicted of a felony.  

He had pitched well for the team prior to the domestic assault.

Splitting hair perhaps.  

[torts]

7 minutes ago, AdvantageSchneider said:

Krod was never convicted of a felony.  

He had pitched well for the team prior to the domestic assault.

Splitting hair perhaps.  

he took a plea deal, he admitted his guilt.

[monty57]

3 hours ago, NBBrewFan said:

Rogers + Bush = Hader + back end of bullpen

The difference from Hader to Rogers is being offset by an improvement in our cast for the 6th/7th innings. The hit we took yesterday to the teams current abilities were reversed by the addition of Bush, which to me was the reason I didn't like the Hader trade (we need to get better NOW/THIS YEAR, not 3 years from now when most of the good players are gone). Are Ruiz/Gasser better than Kelly?  From all indications, yes so overall Sterns has shuffled the Major league deck and added assets to the prospect pool.  Great.  Now maybe getting a hitter would be nice.

That's one of the things I like about Stearns. He doesn't take a "play for now" or "play for the future" stance. He plays for now while still keeping an eye on the future.

We need some help to win this year, but we will absolutely need players three years from now when some of our current players will be gone.

[patrickgpe]

Kelly slots #15 in Texas's MLB Pipeline.

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/rangers/

[AdvantageSchneider]

2 hours ago, torts said:

he took a plea deal, he admitted his guilt.

Plead guilty to attempted assault which is a misdemeanor in NY.  No jail time.  That would seem to be quite different than multiple DUIs and running over a guy and getting 39 months in jail.

 

[MNBrew]

High A to the majors is a considerable leap in time & development.  Given the promise is more in the tools than the totality of his results, it seems to me there's a greater likelihood that he becomes the next Valerio de los Santos than the next Brandon Woodruff.

I hope for Kelly's sake that he does turn into the MLB pitcher we were hoping he'd be for the Brewers. 

[MrTPlush]

28 minutes ago, MNBrew said:

High A to the majors is a considerable leap in time & development.  Given the promise is more in the tools than the totality of his results, it seems to me there's a greater likelihood that he becomes the next Valerio de los Santos than the next Brandon Woodruff.

I hope for Kelly's sake that he does turn into the MLB pitcher we were hoping he'd be for the Brewers. 

Yah, the only reason he is so hyped is because we are Brewer fans. There is honestly no shortage of promising guys in the A leagues. You basically just hype them on potential without the results.  It is one loooong road.

[markedman5]

 

[markedman5]