Game Thread (8/06/2022): Reds (Lodolo) at Brewers (Ashby) - 6:15 PM CDT

[The stache]

As the ‘82 team was being honored, this gnawing question crept into my head, and just wouldn’t go away: day-to-day management and front office, included, and when considering some of the talent this team does have, is this the worst team, fundamentally, the Brewers have had in the last 40 years? This, a franchise that lost 106 games in 2002.

The team was rebuilt for pitching and defense. The starting rotation, when healthy, is excellent. The rest of the team is pretty poor, and the consistently baffling decisions made by Craig Counsell just compounds this team’s mediocrity. Add in the highly questionably decision making by the front office, and I’m not seeing a lot of well thought out baseball. 
 

I don’t see a direction for this team, and when one considers how adept we’ve become at developing starting pitching, which has historically been Milwaukee’s  achilles’ heel, to be so bad in the areas we used to thrive in, is baffling and frustrating. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

I'm seldom on the IGT during a game, but I'll address what I assume is the hot-button topic here (when Tellez came up to PH I looked over & saw flames shooting from my laptop).

I thought it was a terrible decision to have Tellez PH, but that has nothing to do with Hiura. Dumb to have him hit leading off an inning. You had 2-3 in the lineup who he could hit for later, wait until if/when you get to a situation where you have men on.

Again, walks from a starter. Remember how Burnes, Woodruff, Houser were used when they first got here? That's where Ashby should be used; unfortunately injuries put him in a spot he's proven he's not ready for. The command & composure need to catch up to the stuff.

[CdrbrgMark]

I'm no expert to make recommendations. Are any of you longtime fans knowledgeable enough to recommend a competent replacement NOW for CC??

[The stache]

To add, I think a good portion of our current record is the product of the relative weakness of the division, as a whole. 

When I say that we’re fundamentally the worst team of the last 40 years, it might be more accurate to say that they are the most underperforming. They’re certainly on the short list.

I cannot overstate how rare it is to develop the level of starting pitching talent Milwaukee has. Most of the real contenders have brought in at least one top tier starter. Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta are all Brewers lifers. We drafted Burnes, signed Peralta internationally, and traded for Woodruff (fleecing the Rangers in doing so).

Considering the level of pitching talent we have, this team is underachieving in a big way in this weak division. There’s no way this team should win fewer than 93-95 games with that trio starting 60-70% of our games. 

[NBBrewFan]

5 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I thought it was a terrible decision to have Tellez PH, but that has nothing to do with Hiura. Dumb to have him hit leading off an inning. You had 2-3 in the lineup who he could hit for later, wait until if/when you get to a situation where you have men on.

I think that's a good point and I agree. Also, what message does that send the team when you start pinch hitting so early in a game.  It smacks of desperation and will that feed the poor morale post deadline?

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 minutes ago, CdrbrgMark said:

I'm no expert to make recommendations. Are any of you longtime fans knowledgeable enough to recommend a competent replacement NOW for CC??

If this were a Ned Yost type situation where you have someone who's had no success AND seems to be flailing, the optics would suggest Quentin Berry. But CC isn't getting fired.

[The stache]

8 minutes ago, CdrbrgMark said:

I'm no expert to make recommendations. Are any of you longtime fans knowledgeable enough to recommend a competent replacement NOW for CC??

Not off the top of my head, but a competent FO should be exploring those options right now.

The question is, will they do it, or are they too busy drinking the Kool Aid? 

The “Counsell is one of the best managers in baseball” narrative has grown pretty stale. I think it’s clear that he’s shown how far he can take this franchise. If ownership is truly trying to compete for a World Series, they need to accept that Counsell is not the guy to do that, and start making alternate plans. Otherwise, this is still the team satisfied with making the post season.

That is not what I want to see from this franchise. We used to be thrilled to make October baseball. That can’t be the bar anymore. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 minute ago, NBBrewFan said:

I think that's a good point and I agree. Also, what message does that send the team when you start pinch hitting so early in a game.  It smacks of desperation and will that feed the poor morale post deadline?

Dunno about the message it sends. It does hamstring you. Was it 4-3 at the time? Just way too early for sure.

[CdrbrgMark]

10 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

If this were a Ned Yost type situation where you have someone who's had no success AND seems to be flailing, the optics would suggest Quentin Berry. But CC isn't getting fired.

Fine, then let the GD team sink and drown. I'm just about done with them and their rediculous Hiura experiment.

[treego14]

22 minutes ago, CdrbrgMark said:

I'm no expert to make recommendations. Are any of you longtime fans knowledgeable enough to recommend a competent replacement NOW for CC??

Harold Reynolds!

[Jim French Stepstool]

24 minutes ago, The stache said:

To add, I think a good portion of our current record is the product of the relative weakness of the division, as a whole. 

When I say that we’re fundamentally the worst team of the last 40 years, it might be more accurate to say that they are the most underperforming. They’re certainly on the short list.

I cannot overstate how rare it is to develop the level of starting pitching talent Milwaukee has. Most of the real contenders have brought in at least one top tier starter. Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta are all Brewers lifers. We drafted Burnes, signed Peralta internationally, and traded for Woodruff (fleecing the Rangers in doing so).

Considering the level of pitching talent we have, this team is underachieving in a big way in this weak division. There’s no way this team should win fewer than 93-95 games with that trio starting 60-70% of our games. 

Through two-thirds of the season, I think "most underperforming" is fair. The frustrating part is, if you're only allowed to point at one or two areas it's where they've hung their hats. Pitching & defense. I've seen at-bats in Pittsburgh last week where we seemed to be pitching a hitter as if there were two men on, 1B is open & you're protecting a one run lead in the eighth. And it was actually early or in the middle of the game, with no one on or a runner on first or something like that. And I'm talking Burnes & Woodruff as well. Just freaking weird.

[Hopper]

1 hour ago, The stache said:

We drafted Burnes, signed Peralta internationally, and traded for Woodruff (fleecing the Rangers in doing so).

 

We traded for Peralta.  He was part of the Lind trade.

[rickh150]

1 hour ago, CdrbrgMark said:

I'm no expert to make recommendations. Are any of you longtime fans knowledgeable enough to recommend a competent replacement NOW for CC??

Well, if you think the Brewers are really talented, then you would have a case. Run differential says otherwise. Really, we are over achieving by that standard. We also are a lightweight payroll wise and the thought that we have had four consecutive playoffs is still amazing to me (albeit 2020 is under .500 and playoffs from 2019-2021 equates to a 1-7 record). I think of the Oakland A’s with Hudson, Mulder, and Zito. I think of the Twins of years back and the stretch where they were in the playoffs yearly losing to the Yankees. Not many small market teams have played such consistent regular season baseball.

Craig Counsell gets like three or four more seasons regardless what happens this season. Glad to have him and Stearns. Truly amazing from 2017- now,…all Hader years, by the way. 

That being said, what Stearns did at the deadline and what CC is doing messing with Hiura daily, are off the charts weird. Brewers fans are carrying the Hader anger with them around their neck.
 

[brooks_quichenick]

1 hour ago, The stache said:

We drafted Burnes, signed Peralta internationally, and traded for Woodruff (fleecing the Rangers in doing so).

Woodruff was drafted by the Brewers in 2014

[Pugger]

6 hours ago, willie key said:

Cardinals winning the series against the Yankees would be soul crushing

 

Unfortunately the stupid Cards are going to win this division.  It's probably for the best because we aren't good enough anyway.

[Robocaller]

5 hours ago, BruisedCrew said:

After getting 6 innings with 1 hit ( a HR) from Quintana on Thursday, the Cards have their second deadline acquisition on the mound today as Montgomery faces his old team. 

A Goldschmidt double followed by an Arenado single stake him to an early 1-0 lead.

Meanwhile the Phillies continue to score runs in bunches as they lead the Nats 9-0 in the second. 

While I said Quintana and Montgomery would make StL better, I was argued down by a couple of people.
Early returns suggest I was right.

[Robocaller]

3 hours ago, brewers888 said:

We had to dump Lamet to keep McGee.

McGee has decent stuff (at least mph), but his command has to be perfect for him to succeed.

[Robocaller]

3 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I've seen enough of Hiura this year, despite how much he's been yanked around by the Brewers, for them to simply hand him the everyday DH role for 2023.   McCutcheon has had his moments but frankly Hiura should have been given that role at the start of this year.  Despite the K rate and the completely backwards way they've given him ABs, I believe he's the leading OPS hitter on their roster this year, possibly behind Brousseau by a few points.  Obviously neither of them have enough qualified ABs, but Brousseau was injured and never was supposed to hit cleanup on this roster (he is tonight), and Hiura's lack of consistent MLB playing time is more a product of a veteran roster logjam and his inability to play defense to give him a non-DH everyday role.

Hiura's bat in the lower half of the lineup is more than fine as a DH who seems to be improving at working counts and able to hit for plenty of pop.  He needs to be in the lineup every day and definitely shouldn't be getting pinch hit for in a game he's homered in just because a righty reliever is about to face his spot in the lineup..

 

I think you're going too far with this. Hiura should get more starts, but not be an everyday player. But what's unforgivable is pinch hitting for him against a RH pitcher when that has been the handedness he's been crushing, and after hitting a HR vs. a LH pitcher.

 

[Pugger]

4 hours ago, BruisedCrew said:

Hiura can’t hit lefties. 

Not many of the Crew can....

[Robocaller]

2 hours ago, The stache said:

Every one of the four Brewer pitchers have given up a home run tonight, in addition to now SEVEN walks, in toto. 

You’d think that we were facing the ‘27 Yankees. 

We'd easily beat the '27 Yankees. they're all dead.  Probably still give up a walk or two, though.

[Robocaller]

2 hours ago, The stache said:

Considering the level of pitching talent we have, this team is underachieving in a big way in this weak division. There’s no way this team should win fewer than 93-95 games with that trio starting 60-70% of our games. 

Much of the pitching talent has been injured much of the season, hence the need for guys like Jason Alexander.

 

[Pugger]

3 hours ago, NBBrewFan said:

Raise your hand if you were born after 1982.  At least I have that...  Next beers on me!

I find it rather sad this franchise continues to honor a team that lost a WS 40 years ago.

[Jim French Stepstool]

57 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

McGee has decent stuff (at least mph), but his command has to be perfect for him to succeed.

We've had a pretty good success rate with picking up pitchers who were struggling & getting quite a bit out of them (Pomeranz, Lyles, Gio Gonzalez to a lesser extent) so I'm OK with taking a flyer on McGee. But he wasn't good before coming here & there's folks on rehab--a lot of them--getting close to being ready. So the string may be running out for Jake.

[BruisedCrew]

5 hours ago, Robocaller said:

While I said Quintana and Montgomery would make StL better, I was argued down by a couple of people.
Early returns suggest I was right.

The argument was that the Cardinals didn’t help themselves that much because they didn’t get a top of the rotation starter like Castillo.

What that missed is that, while Quintana and Montgomery are not Cy Young candidates or All Stars, they are much better than what they were using behind Mikolas and Wainwright. By sliding them into the rotation and moving the guys that were starting into the bullpen, if they want, they significantly strengthen their overall pitching. And all they gave up from their major league roster was Bader, who is out until September anyway.

Compared to the Brewers, who weakened their active roster with the Hader trade, and made a minor addition with Bush, the Cardinals won the deadline and are now, in my opinion, the favorites to win the division. 
 

 

[BruisedCrew]

On 8/7/2022 at 12:19 AM, Robocaller said:

While I said Quintana and Montgomery would make StL better, I was argued down by a couple of people.
Early returns suggest I was right.

Unintended duplicate