Too Early 2023 Ideas (or beyond)

[Robocaller]

On 9/15/2022 at 4:26 PM, wibadgers23 said:

Something has to give with all of our outfielders - Yelich, Taylor, Renfroe, Mitchell, Ruiz, Wiemer and Frelick. I’d move Yelich to DH, trade Renfroe and Taylor and go with an all rookie outfield. You can’t keep these guys down in the minor leagues forever. I’d also seriously consider trading Burnes. I’m sure a team like the Rangers, Orioles or Dodgers would give us a haul for him.  2023 would probably be a bit of a down year but certainly not a full rebuild.

If you go with an all-rookie OF, you might as well trade Burnes, Woodruff, and Lauer. 

 

[jay87shot]

On 9/17/2022 at 6:38 PM, Robocaller said:

If you go with an all-rookie OF, you might as well trade Burnes, Woodruff, and Lauer. 

 

If anything there would be money available to keep those guys. I would bet odds are very high that one of Frelick or Ruiz will be a top notch leadoff guy and that either Mitchell or Weimer will end up being a solid 2-5 hitter with gold glove caliber defense. To me have the 4 of them makes it a near lock that 2 of them will be high quality starters and at least 1 of the other 2 will be a passable starter. 

I personally wouldn't trade Taylor, even with a down year he is a quality 4th OF who can be a passible starter if called upon. Renfroe should be on the block and if we can get 1 decent prospect or 2 mid-tier back I would trade him and use some of the money on a 3rd baseman. 

What about a trade for Anthony Rendon, say Yeli for Rendon, a decent pitching prospect or two (say Chase Silseth), and the Angels eat enough of Rendons contract to even out with Yeli for 4 years ($64 or $48 milly). 

We would basically be getting out a big contract 2 years early and turn the OF/DH overflow and plethora of future top of the order bats into a potential middle of the order bat at a weak organizational position (big if). The pitching prospect and cash would essentially be insurance against Rendon's injury issues. This seems like a super long shot but I could see the Angels being desperate to get rid of Rendon and adding a solid leadoff in front of Trout and Otani makes sense and if we are looking at saving long term money/flexibility it could work assuming Rendon's health is not a complete loss. 

[nate82]

18 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

What about a trade for Anthony Rendon, say Yeli for Rendon, a decent pitching prospect or two (say Chase Silseth), and the Angels eat enough of Rendons contract to even out with Yeli for 4 years ($64 or $48 milly). 

We would basically be getting out a big contract 2 years early and turn the OF/DH overflow and plethora of future top of the order bats into a potential middle of the order bat at a weak organizational position (big if). The pitching prospect and cash would essentially be insurance against Rendon's injury issues. This seems like a super long shot but I could see the Angels being desperate to get rid of Rendon and adding a solid leadoff in front of Trout and Otani makes sense and if we are looking at saving long term money/flexibility it could work assuming Rendon's health is not a complete loss. 

I think a trade of Rendon for Yelich is about as equal as it could be and I don't think the Angels would be interested in eating any of Rendon's salary or adding a prospect or two to the deal.  Overall Yelich is going to cost more than Rendon when taking in his whole contract compared to Rendon.  Also it would be three years early not two for the Brewers.  Yelich is eligible to be a FA in 2030 and Rendon in 2027.  I think at most you could get about $7-10m in salary relief from the Angels if you needed more you would have to add prospects.  This would be without the Angels sending any other prospects over.  

I would rather live with resigning Jace and having him platoon with Urias at 3B than trading Yelich for Rendon.  That wrist injury could kill all of Rendon's power and then you are back to what the Brewers have with Yelich.  

 

I still think Baltimore makes the most sense for the Brewers to make a trade with if it means trading Burnes.  Rodriguez is ready to start in the majors and he profiles as a top of the rotation starter.  If you could get Rodriguez, Holliday and some lower level prospects in a trade I think the Brewers have to pull the trigger on that trade.  Rordiguez would be able to join the rotation in 2023 and then in 2024 if you keep Woodruff you have a rotation of Woodruff, Peralta, Ashby, Rodriguez and Gasser.  It basically resets everything and you have a very competitive team in 2024 with the starting rotation.  

The Brewers would then have Holliday who looks like someone who could move really fast in the minors and be your starting SS in 2025 or 2026.  The Orioles have a lot of middle infielders in Henderson, Westburg, Norby, Hernaiz, Ortiz and Prieto so losing Holliday wouldn't hurt as much.  Henderson looks to be either the Orioles starting SS, 2B, or 3B of the future.  I think he probably fits best at SS or 3B and I think they will have him play SS in 2023 so that may make Holliday available this offseason.  

[monty57]

29 minutes ago, nate82 said:

I think a trade of Rendon for Yelich is about as equal as it could be and I don't think the Angels would be interested in eating any of Rendon's salary or adding a prospect or two to the deal.  Overall Yelich is going to cost more than Rendon when taking in his whole contract compared to Rendon.  Also it would be three years early not two for the Brewers.  Yelich is eligible to be a FA in 2030 and Rendon in 2027.  I think at most you could get about $7-10m in salary relief from the Angels if you needed more you would have to add prospects.  This would be without the Angels sending any other prospects over.  

I would rather live with resigning Jace and having him platoon with Urias at 3B than trading Yelich for Rendon.  That wrist injury could kill all of Rendon's power and then you are back to what the Brewers have with Yelich.  

 

I still think Baltimore makes the most sense for the Brewers to make a trade with if it means trading Burnes.  Rodriguez is ready to start in the majors and he profiles as a top of the rotation starter.  If you could get Rodriguez, Holliday and some lower level prospects in a trade I think the Brewers have to pull the trigger on that trade.  Rordiguez would be able to join the rotation in 2023 and then in 2024 if you keep Woodruff you have a rotation of Woodruff, Peralta, Ashby, Rodriguez and Gasser.  It basically resets everything and you have a very competitive team in 2024 with the starting rotation.  

The Brewers would then have Holliday who looks like someone who could move really fast in the minors and be your starting SS in 2025 or 2026.  The Orioles have a lot of middle infielders in Henderson, Westburg, Norby, Hernaiz, Ortiz and Prieto so losing Holliday wouldn't hurt as much.  Henderson looks to be either the Orioles starting SS, 2B, or 3B of the future.  I think he probably fits best at SS or 3B and I think they will have him play SS in 2023 so that may make Holliday available this offseason.  

Good post.

Agree on the Yelich/Rendon trade. It would be pretty much straight up, but while Yelich may not be worth his contract at least he's still a valuable major leaguer. I don't think I'd want to take the risk on Rendon with his injury history. Probably best to stick with the bad contract you know than the one you don't.

Your trade idea is exactly how the Brewers should be thinking. I think they'll either target an MLB-ready starting pitcher like you suggest, or a corner IF. In your scenario, they would lose Burnes, but still have a rotation of Woodruff, Lauer, Peralta, Ashby, and either Henderson or if he isn't quite ready, they can stick someone like Houser or Alexander in the 5-spot until they bring Henderson up. Still a very strong rotation, and he can join what's looking to be a decent group of MLB ready prospects in Turang, Mitchell, Frelick, Gasser, Wiemer and Ruiz who hope to keep the team competitive for quite a while.

Value-wise, they'd give up two years of Burnes for six years of Henderson (MLB ready, Top of the Rotation potential to keep the team competitive now) and six years of Holliday (only 18, but lots of potential to add to our already-talented lower minors). The Orioles would be giving up a lot of prospect value, but they'd be getting a 27-year old Cy Young winner with two years of team control and apparently the desire to sign an extension. The immediate benefit to them of having Burnes at the top of the rotation rather than potentially suffering "growing pains" with Henderson could push them to make the deal in order to take the next step to try to win a tough division.

If Burnes or Woodruff hits the market, I think there will be a bidding war, so hopefully the Brewers are able to bring back a ton of talent like your proposed trade suggests.

[Robocaller]

2 hours ago, jay87shot said:

If anything there would be money available to keep those guys. I would bet odds are very high that one of Frelick or Ruiz will be a top notch leadoff guy and that either Mitchell or Weimer will end up being a solid 2-5 hitter with gold glove caliber defense. To me have the 4 of them makes it a near lock that 2 of them will be high quality starters and at least 1 of the other 2 will be a passable starter. 

I personally wouldn't trade Taylor, even with a down year he is a quality 4th OF who can be a passible starter if called upon. Renfroe should be on the block and if we can get 1 decent prospect or 2 mid-tier back I would trade him and use some of the money on a 3rd baseman. 

What about a trade for Anthony Rendon, say Yeli for Rendon, a decent pitching prospect or two (say Chase Silseth), and the Angels eat enough of Rendons contract to even out with Yeli for 4 years ($64 or $48 milly). 

We would basically be getting out a big contract 2 years early and turn the OF/DH overflow and plethora of future top of the order bats into a potential middle of the order bat at a weak organizational position (big if). The pitching prospect and cash would essentially be insurance against Rendon's injury issues. This seems like a super long shot but I could see the Angels being desperate to get rid of Rendon and adding a solid leadoff in front of Trout and Otani makes sense and if we are looking at saving long term money/flexibility it could work assuming Rendon's health is not a complete loss. 

keep them through 2024, sure. But if you aren't going to try to win in 2023, you might as well start the reload now, so whatever players we acquire can overlap with our current prospects. 
There's no way we can improve upon Renfroe in 2023; or the only way to do it is if Wiemer comes up and is a rookie of the year candidate. Wiemer needs to at least start 2023 in Nashville. If you can get value for Taylor you trade him; a playoff team that loses an OF to injury might pay well during Spring Training; I'd rather develop the 4 AAA OFers than keep Taylor.
The only way to trade Yelich is if you are adept at black magic.

 

[jay87shot]

5 hours ago, Robocaller said:

keep them through 2024, sure. But if you aren't going to try to win in 2023, you might as well start the reload now, so whatever players we acquire can overlap with our current prospects. 
There's no way we can improve upon Renfroe in 2023; or the only way to do it is if Wiemer comes up and is a rookie of the year candidate. Wiemer needs to at least start 2023 in Nashville. If you can get value for Taylor you trade him; a playoff team that loses an OF to injury might pay well during Spring Training; I'd rather develop the 4 AAA OFers than keep Taylor.
The only way to trade Yelich is if you are adept at black magic.

 

Renfroe is really a 2 to 2.5 WAR player. He is solid but I feel like at least 2 of those 4 OF can be 4 WAR players next year. It might take a month or two to weed out one or two if they are ready but say 4, 4, and 0 in the 3 OF spots is better than 3 yeli, 2 Taylor, and 2.5 renfroe this year.

[Robocaller]

47 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

Renfroe is really a 2 to 2.5 WAR player. He is solid but I feel like at least 2 of those 4 OF can be 4 WAR players next year. It might take a month or two to weed out one or two if they are ready but say 4, 4, and 0 in the 3 OF spots is better than 3 yeli, 2 Taylor, and 2.5 renfroe this year.

most rookies suck, even guys that end up having a nice career. Predicting two will be 4 WAR guys is unreasonable. None of them should be expected to be better than Renfroe. Love to be proven wrong, but the odds are on my side.

 

[jay87shot]

14 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

most rookies suck, even guys that end up having a nice career. Predicting two will be 4 WAR guys is unreasonable. None of them should be expected to be better than Renfroe. Love to be proven wrong, but the odds are on my side.

 

You are probably right. However Adolis Garcia had a 3.8 WAR last year and hit .243/.286/.741 granted good D and 31 HR. I think Weimer or Mitchell (not as much power) could be close to that and Frelich or Ruiz maybe similar to what Yeli has done this year which is like a 3.

[monty57]

Regarding the OF:

It looks like a given that CF will be a rookie. I think they'll hold onto Renfroe because they'll need a proven, solid bat in the lineup and he provides that, which I guess means that the value he'll provide the Brewers next year is greater than what I think he'd get in trade. DH will probably be manned most days by one of Yelich or Renfroe, opening up plenty of playing time for the fourth OF, whether that's Taylor or one of the rookies. Any of those guys will provide better defense than either Yelich or Renfroe.

There is a good chance that one of the four rookie OFs (Mitchell, Frelick, Wiemer, Ruiz) will be traded this offseason, but if not I think that two of them will start next year in AAA. This will give them everyday playing time, and keep them from accruing service time while sitting on the MLB bench.

I think it is a possibility that the opening day lineup includes one of Yelich/Renfroe at DH with two OF positions manned by Mitchell and Frelick. If one or both of those guys has a good season and ends up in the top three for Rookie of the Year, then the Brewers can net themselves a draft pick, and we're able to improve the OF defense while keeping both Yelich and Renfroe's bats in the lineup.

I think Taylor will still be a Brewer. He is still cheap and provides some value to the team, but probably wouldn't net a lot in trade. I'd say we open next year with Yelich, Renfroe, Mitchell, Frelick, and Taylor on the roster, and no need to sign "another McCutchen" to DH since Yelich and Renfroe will get a lot of time there.

This team will be active in the offseason, so it's hard to predict things, but whatever moves the team makes this year, they will still be trying to compete in 2023.

[nate82]

1 hour ago, monty57 said:

Regarding the OF:

I think Taylor will still be a Brewer. He is still cheap and provides some value to the team, but probably wouldn't net a lot in trade. I'd say we open next year with Yelich, Renfroe, Mitchell, Frelick, and Taylor on the roster, and no need to sign "another McCutchen" to DH since Yelich and Renfroe will get a lot of time there.

This team will be active in the offseason, so it's hard to predict things, but whatever moves the team makes this year, they will still be trying to compete in 2023.

I think it would be best to just move Yelich to DH permanently as his defense in the OF has completely collapsed this year.  Renfroe is a better LF than he is a RF defensively.  Renfroe has the arm to play RF but he isn't the greatest at getting to fly balls I would prefer him in LF than RF.  Having Frelick/Mitchell in CF, Mitchell/Taylor in RF and then Renfroe/Mitchell/Taylor/Yelich in LF gives the Brewers the best OF defense.  

I don't know if the Brewers will trade one of their young OF's but it is possible.  I think the more likely outcome is that they are all still with the Brewers.  I think it is more likely that Taylor is traded though I don't think the Brewers will get much in return for him.  I think the A's maybe a good fit for Taylor something like Hiura and Taylor for Puk and Irvin.  That gives the Brewers a questionable relief pitcher in Puk and another back end of the rotation starter in Irvin.  You could exchange Hiura for Small in this package but I would prefer to keep Small for a different trade or as starting pitching depth.  

Both Hiura and Taylor scream A's type of players to me.  Taylor being someone very similar to Canha and others the A's have had in the OF recently.  

21 hours ago, monty57 said:

Value-wise, they'd give up two years of Burnes for six years of Henderson (MLB ready, Top of the Rotation potential to keep the team competitive now) and six years of Holliday (only 18, but lots of potential to add to our already-talented lower minors). The Orioles would be giving up a lot of prospect value, but they'd be getting a 27-year old Cy Young winner with two years of team control and apparently the desire to sign an extension. The immediate benefit to them of having Burnes at the top of the rotation rather than potentially suffering "growing pains" with Henderson could push them to make the deal in order to take the next step to try to win a tough division.

I think you mean Rodriguez as Henderson is the Orioles top positional prospect.  Of all the trades that I have seen for Burnes I think the Orioles make the most sense as they have a lot of what I think the Brewers will want in return for Burnes.  The Orioles also have a lot of free salary that they could dedicate this off season to just about anyone.  For example the Orioles could extend Burnes at $30m a season and sign Judge to a $30m a season contract and pay all of the increases to the players they already have and that would still leave them about $20m short of what the Brewers payroll is this year.  So the Orioles could spend another $20m in salary on other parts of their team.  

I believe the Orioles are going to be that mystery team this off season who will be in on someone like Judge.  Everyone is predicting Mets, Yankees or Red Sox but I think the Orioles are going to be really aggressive this off season in free agency and in trades.  

I wouldn't be surprised if the Orioles offer a trade similar to what the D-backs did with the Braves for Shelby Miller but with more prospects than MLB players (Inciarte and Blair).  So something like what I proposed with Rodriguez and Holliday leading the deal.  Holliday would actually be a pretty good comp with Swanson.  

[monty57]

8 minutes ago, nate82 said:

I think you mean Rodriguez as Henderson is the Orioles top positional prospect.  Of all the trades that I have seen for Burnes I think the Orioles make the most sense as they have a lot of what I think the Brewers will want in return for Burnes.  The Orioles also have a lot of free salary that they could dedicate this off season to just about anyone.  For example the Orioles could extend Burnes at $30m a season and sign Judge to a $30m a season contract and pay all of the increases to the players they already have and that would still leave them about $20m short of what the Brewers payroll is this year.  So the Orioles could spend another $20m in salary on other parts of their team.  

I believe the Orioles are going to be that mystery team this off season who will be in on someone like Judge.  Everyone is predicting Mets, Yankees or Red Sox but I think the Orioles are going to be really aggressive this off season in free agency and in trades.  

I wouldn't be surprised if the Orioles offer a trade similar to what the D-backs did with the Braves for Shelby Miller but with more prospects than MLB players (Inciarte and Blair).  So something like what I proposed with Rodriguez and Holliday leading the deal.  Holliday would actually be a pretty good comp with Swanson.  

Good catch. Yes, Rodriguez, not Henderson. 

How funny would it be to see Judge go to Baltimore (along with others) and have the Orioles win the AL East for a few years? As a fan of a small-market team, it would be nice to see Yankee fans feel the pain of watching a home-grown fan-favorite go year-to-year, turning down extension offers, and then leave in free agency to a division rival for more money.

If the Orioles are ready to go that big, then I agree that they would probably be willing to overpay to get one of the best pitchers in the game to put at the top of their rotation.

[Brewcrew82]

Catcher position has turned out to be one of our weak spots this year with the major second-half slumps from Caratini and Narvaez. I think we should look outside the organization in the offseason. How about snagging one of the Jays' three catchers? Time for Jansen to return home? He's probably the most obtainable...

[nate82]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Catcher position has turned out to be one of our weak spots this year with the major second-half slumps from Caratini and Narvaez. I think we should look outside the organization in the offseason. How about snagging one of the Jays' three catchers? Time for Jansen to return home? He's probably the most obtainable...

No thanks.  I would rather spend the trade capital the Brewers have on something else.  To get Jansen you are looking at trading someone like Frelick or Wiemer.  Also the Brewers just don't match up all that well with the Blue Jays as a trade partner.  The position that the Blue Jays would be looking to get better at the Brewers only have Woodruff, Lauer, Houser and Burnes.  You would have to package Houser plus a lot to get Jansen.  

It just would be a waste of the trade capital the Brewers have to get any of the Blue Jays catchers.  It would just be best to roll with Caratini and Feliciano next year than it would be to trade for Jansen.  

[Brewcrew82]

10 minutes ago, nate82 said:

No thanks.  I would rather spend the trade capital the Brewers have on something else.  To get Jansen you are looking at trading someone like Frelick or Wiemer.  Also the Brewers just don't match up all that well with the Blue Jays as a trade partner.  The position that the Blue Jays would be looking to get better at the Brewers only have Woodruff, Lauer, Houser and Burnes.  You would have to package Houser plus a lot to get Jansen.  

It just would be a waste of the trade capital the Brewers have to get any of the Blue Jays catchers.  It would just be best to roll with Caratini and Feliciano next year than it would be to trade for Jansen.  

I'd give up a Mitchell and a Houser for him any day of the week. We may not have any huge holes in our lineup, but we need upgrades and Jansen has a WRC+ of 138, which would easily be tops in our lineup. 

[nate82]

29 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I'd give up a Mitchell and a Houser for him any day of the week. We may not have any huge holes in our lineup, but we need upgrades and Jansen has a WRC+ of 138, which would easily be tops in our lineup. 

Not enough you would have to add another prospect like Black.  That is just too much to be giving up for a catcher who only has two years of service left.  This would just be a bad trade and I don't think the Blue Jays would even accept this.  You would have to give up someone better then Houser.  If you want to get Jansen it is going to cost Woodruff for Jansen and a prospect or two.  At that point I don't see why the Brewers would even entertain that.  You would want more than 2-years of control and a prospect or two who are going to be lower level.  

For a trade for the Blue Jays to work for Jansen it would look something like this:

Blue Jays get Woodruff

Brewers get Jansen, Kasevich and Toman/Doughty

If you are trading Woodruff then getting Jansen back doesn't make any sense at all.  Trading away Mitchell also doesn't make any sense and Houser doesn't make any sense at all for the Blue Jays.  Houser would be a bad fit in Toronto as his ERA would more than likely jump up to something like 6+ pitching in Toronto.  Mitchell also doesn't really fit with Toronto either.  I think they would prefer Frelick and would demand Frelick over Mitchell.  If you are willing to do a Frelick and Lauer for Jansen then sure the Blue Jays would trade Jansen.  Otherwise it will be something similar to what I put up above for Woodruff.  

[UpandIn]

On 9/20/2022 at 1:43 PM, nate82 said:

I think a trade of Rendon for Yelich is about as equal as it could be and I don't think the Angels would be interested in eating any of Rendon's salary or adding a prospect or two to the deal.  Overall Yelich is going to cost more than Rendon when taking in his whole contract compared to Rendon.  Also it would be three years early not two for the Brewers.  Yelich is eligible to be a FA in 2030 and Rendon in 2027.  I think at most you could get about $7-10m in salary relief from the Angels if you needed more you would have to add prospects.  This would be without the Angels sending any other prospects over.  

I would rather live with resigning Jace and having him platoon with Urias at 3B than trading Yelich for Rendon.  That wrist injury could kill all of Rendon's power and then you are back to what the Brewers have with Yelich.  

 

I still think Baltimore makes the most sense for the Brewers to make a trade with if it means trading Burnes.  Rodriguez is ready to start in the majors and he profiles as a top of the rotation starter.  If you could get Rodriguez, Holliday and some lower level prospects in a trade I think the Brewers have to pull the trigger on that trade.  Rordiguez would be able to join the rotation in 2023 and then in 2024 if you keep Woodruff you have a rotation of Woodruff, Peralta, Ashby, Rodriguez and Gasser.  It basically resets everything and you have a very competitive team in 2024 with the starting rotation.  

The Brewers would then have Holliday who looks like someone who could move really fast in the minors and be your starting SS in 2025 or 2026.  The Orioles have a lot of middle infielders in Henderson, Westburg, Norby, Hernaiz, Ortiz and Prieto so losing Holliday wouldn't hurt as much.  Henderson looks to be either the Orioles starting SS, 2B, or 3B of the future.  I think he probably fits best at SS or 3B and I think they will have him play SS in 2023 so that may make Holliday available this offseason.  

If you get offered Grayson Rodriguez and Jackson Holliday, you jump on that. Holliday is a great athlete, probably, as you said, advanced, and if he doesn't stick at SS, he could move over to SS. I think you're going to need almost two SSs with the new shift rule. You're going to be playing one guy just to the right of 2nd and other guy basically like a SS shaded toward the hole vs lefties. So Holliday and Turang, that could make for an outstanding left side of the IF. That's without any idea how Holliday actually progresses. People have him as 2B/3B until recently when apparently they've been more impressed by his arm and his quickness. But that's a ways down the road. I wouldn't be against including Devin Williams into this trade for Felix Bautista from Balt. Throws 100, big strikeout pitcher and I just don't have faith in Williams continuing to dominate as he has. He started with an upper 90s fastball that he didn't have to be perfect with, but jsut the threat of it made the change that much more dangerous. Now at ~93, it feels like we're moving torward K-Rod territory. Post Angels K-Rod. 

You could take a year to reset. Trade Renfroe for hopefully a nice pitching prospect or two. Guys who are starters, but like Uribe, but hopefully a bit more...refined.

I'm skeptical you'd be able to re-sign Woodruff at this point, but if you did, you'd be more than just resetting what you had in '24, you potentially throw out that rotation you mentioned;

Quote

Woodruff, Peralta, Ashby, Rodriguez and Gasser. 

OF would be Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer, Yelich and Taylor for another year. 

IF-I'd prefer to re-sign Jace as well, but for 2 years depending on the price. If he's getting paid of a 2.5 WAR season, then no, but 2/12, sure. 3B-Brosseau/Jace/Urias SS-Adames 2B-Turang 1B-Probably still Tellez, but Cam Devanney has really been impressive. He could also slot in at 3B with Devanney playing some 3rd. 

DH-Figure it out between the 3B/OF

C-Quero? Probably a year too early, but he and Chourio would be close by '24.

 

It's a brilliant trade idea and again, I think it'd cost more than just Burnes to get two top 14 prospects. Maybe a team like SD who trades stupidly, or the Dodgers who'll just have 3 more elite prospects next year.

 

But the premise is rock solid and I'd have preferred to extend Burnes...as I've gotten into an never ending discussion about, but getting rid of Burnes and getting back a guy who in 2 years could be as good a him, PLUS an elite IFer with power and speed...hell, pay Burnes arbitration number next year. Spend the year getting the young guys playing time, looking for your future BP pieces.

Maybe we don't take a bite of the able the next year, but it'd certainly set us up for the next 4-5 years. And it'd be one helluva parting gift from Stearns(as Rodriguez was apparently a hold over from the Orioles previous front office). 

[UpandIn]

On 9/20/2022 at 12:42 PM, jay87shot said:

If anything there would be money available to keep those guys. I would bet odds are very high that one of Frelick or Ruiz will be a top notch leadoff guy and that either Mitchell or Weimer will end up being a solid 2-5 hitter with gold glove caliber defense. To me have the 4 of them makes it a near lock that 2 of them will be high quality starters and at least 1 of the other 2 will be a passable starter. 

I personally wouldn't trade Taylor, even with a down year he is a quality 4th OF who can be a passible starter if called upon. Renfroe should be on the block and if we can get 1 decent prospect or 2 mid-tier back I would trade him and use some of the money on a 3rd baseman. 

What about a trade for Anthony Rendon, say Yeli for Rendon, a decent pitching prospect or two (say Chase Silseth), and the Angels eat enough of Rendons contract to even out with Yeli for 4 years ($64 or $48 milly). 

We would basically be getting out a big contract 2 years early and turn the OF/DH overflow and plethora of future top of the order bats into a potential middle of the order bat at a weak organizational position (big if). The pitching prospect and cash would essentially be insurance against Rendon's injury issues. This seems like a super long shot but I could see the Angels being desperate to get rid of Rendon and adding a solid leadoff in front of Trout and Otani makes sense and if we are looking at saving long term money/flexibility it could work assuming Rendon's health is not a complete loss. 

Problem is...Rendon could at least still come back and play 3B at a high level. He did his last full seasons.

And when talking about injury issues, I don't know it's a substantial difference. Also, need to consider the Angels have Ward, Trout and it's not all that hard to find an OFer...and they may still not be willing to give up on Adell. So they need pitching. 

They're really not saving money in this scenario, so they might as well hope Rendon bounces back and then they've got a 3B who has power rather than an OFer who can leadoff. 

I think if you want to make that trade and then get 50M back, you're sending them Lauer(at least). 

[jay87shot]

Any chance of Ruiz being a utility player? He did play 2B/SS for 3 or 4 years in the minors. As a 4th OF and maybe like a platoon at 2nd with Turang he would probably play close to full time especially if Yeli is DH a bunch.

I like the idea of Burnes or Woody to the O's, however I doubt they give up Rodriguez and Holiday. With how conservative they were at the deadline I doubt they trade any one who is close. That would probably leave us a package of Holiday and like 3 other top 10 prospects which, I doubt we do as it would give us no immediate help.

[Brewcrew82]

16 hours ago, nate82 said:

Not enough you would have to add another prospect like Black.  That is just too much to be giving up for a catcher who only has two years of service left.  This would just be a bad trade and I don't think the Blue Jays would even accept this.  You would have to give up someone better then Houser.  If you want to get Jansen it is going to cost Woodruff for Jansen and a prospect or two.  At that point I don't see why the Brewers would even entertain that.  You would want more than 2-years of control and a prospect or two who are going to be lower level.  

For a trade for the Blue Jays to work for Jansen it would look something like this:

Blue Jays get Woodruff

Brewers get Jansen, Kasevich and Toman/Doughty

If you are trading Woodruff then getting Jansen back doesn't make any sense at all.  Trading away Mitchell also doesn't make any sense and Houser doesn't make any sense at all for the Blue Jays.  Houser would be a bad fit in Toronto as his ERA would more than likely jump up to something like 6+ pitching in Toronto.  Mitchell also doesn't really fit with Toronto either.  I think they would prefer Frelick and would demand Frelick over Mitchell.  If you are willing to do a Frelick and Lauer for Jansen then sure the Blue Jays would trade Jansen.  Otherwise it will be something similar to what I put up above for Woodruff.  

No way Woodruff for Jansen is close to an even trade on our end. If we're trading Woodruff, arguably a top 10 pitcher in the game with 2 years of control remaining, I'd want Moreno or Kirk. Just look at the Luis Castillo trade to see how much value Woodruff still has. One of our upper level prospects not named Frelick or Chourio and a lower-level player  should be more than enough to get Jansen if we're not dealing from the major-league roster. We would be helped by the fact that it will be pretty hard for the Jays to go into next season with those three catchers on their roster. 

[Playing Catch]

I think that whichever team signs Judge, will trade for Burnes. I'm predicting the Rangers. But I would love it if the Orioles came out of nowhere to take the AL East... what a difficult division!

[wibadgers23]

4 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

I think that whichever team signs Judge, will trade for Burnes. I'm predicting the Rangers. But I would love it if the Orioles came out of nowhere to take the AL East... what a difficult division!

Yeah and didn’t the Rangers spend a bunch of money on offense last offseason? You’d think they’d be willing to give up the farm to get an elite pitcher like Burnes.

[UpandIn]

52 minutes ago, wibadgers23 said:

Yeah and didn’t the Rangers spend a bunch of money on offense last offseason? You’d think they’d be willing to give up the farm to get an elite pitcher like Burnes.

There's a lot of teams in that position. Throw Detroit into the mix. They're kinda a mix of Texas and Baltimore. They have a whole bunch of young position players and spent some money and willing to spend money. 

Baltimore, we could go back to the SD well(though Korey Howell is not their #9 prospect, so...it's a top heavy system). They have some nice young arms. Snelling and Lesko among them. And then about a 10 of the usual contenders and that delusional team that pops up from year to year thinking they're contenders. There's always one or two of them like AZ.

 

Also, Houston. If they lose Verlander, that team is still set up to win. I'd take Forrest Whitley back. See if we could fix him. Course he'd be the 3rd prospect. Hunter Brown, Yainer Diaz, Whitley.

There should be a LOT of pitching prospects we could plug into this organization and hopefully come out with some MLB talent...whomever we trade with. 

[jay87shot]

I brought up the Mets as an option for Woody I would think Burnes to the Mets would work as well. They have 4 starters who are free agents I believe and Nimmo. They do have Alvarez, Baty, and Vientos as quality "ready" bats but really no high end arms we would want back.

Alvarez, Baty, and 2 of Matt Allen, Blade Tidwell, Calvin Ziegler, Mike Vasil, Dominic Hamel, Jose Butto, or Joel Diaz would be a nice haul.

[monty57]

17 hours ago, jay87shot said:

Any chance of Ruiz being a utility player? He did play 2B/SS for 3 or 4 years in the minors. As a 4th OF and maybe like a platoon at 2nd with Turang he would probably play close to full time especially if Yeli is DH a bunch.

I don't know if he played SS. He was a 2B, but was moved off of second because they didn't think he could play the position well. I think his ability to play 2B in the majors would be in emergency only.

He's relatively new to the OF, so he still has to learn the position but has speed to believe that he could be a good defender when he has more reps. 

He got the call-up this year because his option is already burned, but he would be the last OF I'd bring up next year. Let him learn how to play OF by playing everyday in AAA.

[monty57]

17 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

No way Woodruff for Jansen is close to an even trade on our end.

Whether the value would be equal or not (I don't believe it is), the only reason the Brewers will trade Burnes or Woodruff is because they are going to be free agents soon. We will not trade them for a player that will be entering free agency the same time as Burnes/Woodruff.