2022 MLB Playoffs

[rondoman]

On 10/13/2022 at 4:34 PM, NBBrewFan said:

Like many Brewers fans felt after 2018? That experience has lead to a 1-6 record since then in the postseason.

More like 2008.

[Nola Beery]

7 hours ago, treego14 said:

Grisham is mashing AND Hader is throwing harder than he ever did for us on a consistent basis now for the Padres ... well, good for them ... 

We would be in the playoffs if we didn't trade Hader ... oh, well ...

Remind me again what we got in the Hader trade.  ?

[Nola Beery]

How great would it be to have a League Champ. Series and World Series without the Braves, Astros, Dodgers, or Yankees?  Too good to be true, I fear. Especially as Houston looks ready to clinch.   

[owbc]

This year might finally trigger Manfred to make the LDS a 7-game series. 

[sveumrules]

2 hours ago, Nola Beery said:

Remind me again what we got in the Hader trade.  ?

Robert Gasser: 137 IP with 3.94 ERA and  172/53 K/BB between AA/AAA in 2022.

Esteury Ruiz: 541 PAs of 332/427/526 with 85 SB/14 CS between AA/AAA in 2022.

[NBBrewFan]

1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

Robert Gasser: 137 IP with 3.94 ERA and  172/53 K/BB between AA/AAA in 2022.

Esteury Ruiz: 541 PAs of 332/427/526 with 85 SB/14 CS between AA/AAA in 2022.

Did you miss the following:

Esteury Ruiz: 36 PAs of 171/194/257 with 1 SB/2 CS in MLB in 2022?

[NBBrewFan]

14 hours ago, Hopper said:

Grisham has been excellent so far in the playoffs!  Big HR there!

That washed up reliever we shipped them for a bunch of projects... I mean prospects... is sure getting lucky.  Don't those Dodgers know Hader is washed up?

[jerichoholicninja]

So we're back to lamenting trading the guy with a sub .700 OPS over his last 1000 PA's again because he hit a homerun that one time?

[brewers888]

9 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

So we're back to lamenting trading the guy with a sub .700 OPS over his last 1000 PA's again because he hit a homerun that one time?

The complaints are far more about trading the best reliever in baseball for scraps. 

[sveumrules]

47 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

Did you miss the following:

Esteury Ruiz: 36 PAs of 171/194/257 with 1 SB/2 CS in MLB in 2022?

The predictive value of 36 PAs spread across two stints a month apart is essentially nil.

The break even point between Esteury’s .451 OPS in MLB vs his .953 OPS in AA/AAA is .702. 

Do you think his MLB OPS will end up over or under .700 once he has more than 36 PAs?

[Brewcrew82]

1 hour ago, NBBrewFan said:

Did you miss the following:

Esteury Ruiz: 36 PAs of 171/194/257 with 1 SB/2 CS in MLB in 2022?

Do you not understand small sample sizes? Like, come on.

[Brewcrew82]

47 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

The complaints are far more about trading the best reliever in baseball for scraps. 

We could've traded him for Andujar and Frazier back in the day when he had even more control and value. I'm sure that would've made you very happy. 

[Hopper]

5 hours ago, Nola Beery said:

How great would it be to have a League Champ. Series and World Series without the Braves, Astros, Dodgers, or Yankees?  Too good to be true, I fear. Especially as Houston looks ready to clinch.   

It would be great, but I don't care to see any team from Philadelphia, in any playoff format, for any sport.

[Hopper]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

The complaints are far more about trading the best reliever in baseball for scraps. 

Yeah, I don't think anyone is saying anything of the sort about Grisham any longer.

[brewers888]

18 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

We could've traded him for Andujar and Frazier back in the day when he had even more control and value. I'm sure that would've made you very happy. 

You just have to go out of your way to defend anything this team does. The fact is we traded the best reliever in baseball for a completely underwhelming return which cost this team a playoff spot. Stearns even admitted it was a bad move yet you still have to defend it.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

1 hour ago, NBBrewFan said:

Did you miss the following:

Esteury Ruiz: 36 PAs of 171/194/257 with 1 SB/2 CS in MLB in 2022?

It would have been very easy to miss it. It was an espresso-sized cup of coffee. Come on.

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, brewers888 said:

You just have to go out of your way to defend anything this team does. The fact is we traded the best reliever in baseball for a completely underwheling return which cost this team a playoff spot. Stearns even admitted it was a bad move yet you still have to defend it.

He didn't admit it was a bad move. He just said he failed to consider the consequences of the move on clubhouse chemistry. It made complete sense on paper because you were trading Hader at the height of his value when he was showing signs of decline and you had the opportunity to replenish the farm system, while replacing him on the major league roster with a guy who had produced similarly in Rogers. Hard to foresee Rogers going from being home run-averse to serving them up like ice cream on a hot summer's day. 

Anyways, the trade was a failure as it relates to this season since we missed the playoffs. But the story has not yet concluded, given that we will have 12 combined years of control from Gasser/Ruiz compared to 1.5 years of Hader. They have shown enough promise that it makes me think we could come out pretty well ourselves. Certainly, it makes me hesitant to call the trade a total failure and to want to run Stearns out of the building. 

FWIW, I wouldn't say Hader is the best reliever in baseball any longer. I would probably give that title to Edwin Diaz of the Mets. 

[Hopper]

Listening to Stearns about the trade, he came off as admitting it was a bad trade, even though he didn't actually say it.  You are spinning that to your favor if you think anything else.

Rogers was struggling big time with the Padres before we got him, and he continued his struggles.

Hader is in fact the best reliver in baseball as long as he truly is back to his normal self.  He was hitting 100 routinely the past couple of games, and sure looked like he was back to himself. 

You just can't paint this trade as one thing.  Did it knock us out of the playoffs?  Quite possibly.  In 2 years, once Gasser and Ruiz are determined, could we be a better team at that time?  Quite possibly.

Simple fact is, right here and now, with a team on the brink of the playoffs in 2022, that trade completely blew butt, and that is what your typical fan will see.

Personally, if Ruiz such a great get, and is so coveted around MLB, he is the guy I am looking to trade this off season.

[brewers888]

4 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

He didn't admit it was a bad move. He just said he failed to consider the consequences of the move on clubhouse chemistry. It made complete sense on paper because you were trading Hader at the height of his value when he was showing signs of decline and you had the opportunity to replenish the farm system, while replacing him on the major league roster with a guy who had produced similarly in Rogers. Hard to foresee Rogers going from being home run-averse to serving them up like ice cream on a hot summer's day. 

Anyways, the trade was a failure as it relates to this season since we missed the playoffs. But the story has not yet concluded, given that we will have 12 combined years of control from Gasser/Ruiz compared to 1.5 years of Hader. They have shown enough promise that it makes me think we could come out pretty well ourselves. Certainly, it makes me hesitant to call the trade a total failure and to want to run Stearns out of the building. 

FWIW, I wouldn't say Hader is the best reliever in baseball any longer. I would probably give that title to Edwin Diaz of the Mets. 

You don't trade a guy like Hader in the middle of the season when you are in first place without getting an overwhelming return. We can argue the semantics of whether or not Hader is the best in the game or not but what cannot be denied is he has been a great reliever and that the deal for at least the 2022 season was an unmitigated disaster.

I don't see how getting a starting pitcher with a probable 4th or 5th starter ceiling and an outfielder who was the third best outfield prospect in AAA for this organization is a solid return for a player the caliber of Josh Hader. Stearns screwed up which even he admitted yet you have to carry water for this organization even when the man that made the deal pretty much said it backfired.

[brewers888]

4 minutes ago, Hopper said:

Listening to Stearns about the trade, he came off as admitting it was a bad trade, even though he didn't actually say it.  You are spinning that to your favor if you think anything else.

Rogers was struggling big time with the Padres before we got him, and he continued his struggles.

Hader is in fact the best reliver in baseball as long as he truly is back to his normal self.  He was hitting 100 routinely the past couple of games, and sure looked like he was back to himself. 

You just can't paint this trade as one thing.  Did it knock us out of the playoffs?  Quite possibly.  In 2 years, once Gasser and Ruiz are determined, could we be a better team at that time?  Quite possibly.

Simple fact is, right here and now, with a team on the brink of the playoffs in 2022, that trade completely blew butt, and that is what your typical fan will see.

Personally, if Ruiz such a great get, and is so coveted around MLB, he is the guy I am looking to trade this off season.

If David Stearns himself can admit it was a mistake why would anyone else defend this deal.

[Brewcrew82]

4 minutes ago, Hopper said:

Listening to Stearns about the trade, he came off as admitting it was a bad trade, even though he didn't actually say it.  You are spinning that to your favor if you think anything else.

Rogers was struggling big time with the Padres before we got him, and he continued his struggles.

Hader is in fact the best reliver in baseball as long as he truly is back to his normal self.  He was hitting 100 routinely the past couple of games, and sure looked like he was back to himself. 

You just can't paint this trade as one thing.  Did it knock us out of the playoffs?  Quite possibly.  In 2 years, once Gasser and Ruiz are determined, could we be a better team at that time?  Quite possibly.

Simple fact is, right here and now, with a team on the brink of the playoffs in 2022, that trade completely blew butt, and that is what your typical fan will see.

Personally, if Ruiz such a great get, and is so coveted around MLB, he is the guy I am looking to trade this off season.

You do realize that Hader was struggling just as bad as Rogers before the trade and actually was better than Hader after the trade? 

And it's not a "fact", considering Edwin Diaz leads MLB relievers in WAR and FIP since 2018. Heck even Devin Williams has been better than Hader since 2020. 

[Brewcrew82]

5 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

You don't trade a guy like Hader in the middle of the season when you are in first place without getting an overwhelming return. We can argue the semantics of whether or not Hader is the best in the game or not but what cannot be denied is he has been a great reliever and that the deal for at least the 2022 season was an unmitigated disaster.

I don't see how getting a starting pitcher with a probable 4th or 5th starter ceiling and an outfielder who was the third best outfield prospect in AAA for this organization is a solid return for a player the caliber of Josh Hader. Stearns screwed up which even he admitted yet you have to carry water for this organization even when the man that made the deal pretty much said it backfired.

I think you're severely overestimating what other teams were willing to offer for Hader considering the best deal we could seemingly get for him in 2020 when he had significantly greater value was Andujar and Frazier. I can't imagine how disappointed you would be in the return had we waited until this offseason to trade Hader with only one year of control remaining and a depressed winter reliever market.

As far as Ruiz and Gasser, they're borderline top 100 guys right now. Now, Gasser may only ever be a mid rotation starter and Ruiz may only be a utility player, but that combined value over the course of 6 years would potentially rival or exceed Hader's value over the course of 1.5 years. In that case, the trade doesn't become a dumpster fire any longer. 

I'm not carrying water for anyone. If that's what you truly think, then you're full of crap. All I'm saying is that while it has backfired to this point, it made sense at the time and has the potential to go our way in the coming years. 

[Brewcrew82]

Arcia goes deep in Philly. Ex-Brewers showing out this postseason. 

[NBBrewFan]

1 hour ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

It would have been very easy to miss it. It was an espresso-sized cup of coffee. Come on.

So you think it's ok to leave out data?  I'm fine if you want to be dishonest, but I prefer to place it all on the table.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

3 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

So you think it's ok to leave out data?  I'm fine if you want to be dishonest, but I prefer to place it all on the table.

Dishonest? That's rich. Those numbers are simply inconsequential. Especially when you bring them up without acknowledging that the guy owned AAA this year. It's simply being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.