Finding the 2023 Starting Catcher

[SF70]

3 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

"Carroll is the only one of the player you mentioned that approaches Mitchell's speed". Carroll not only approaches Mitchell's speed, he exceeds it. He was only the fastest player in the majors this year.

"And while I love both Chourio and Wiemer's tools, neither have Mitchell's game changing speed." Chourio most definitely has similar game-changing speed. They're both 70-grade runners. And if what you care about is speed, then what about Esteury Ruiz? Ruiz showed more power in the minors this season than Mitchell ever has...

"And Mitchell was a top 100 prospect that fell-out due mostly to not being able to stay on the field" And Mitchell was able to stay on the field this season? Did he not spend a significant chunk of time  once again this year on the IL?? Also, it was not his inability to stay on the field that sent him off top 100 lists. It was that IN COMBINATION with his continued inability to access his raw power on the field as a result of his swing. 

Overall, Mitchell is not a unicorn or a potential superstar right now. That's just wishful fan thinking on your part. Do I wish you were right? Of course. But I also see his career stats and scouting report, the upcoming OF roster crunch, and the presence of other holes on our roster. In that light, trading a talented prospect like Mitchell for a sleeper slugging catcher like Jansen isn't as asinine as you're making it out to be. 

Asinine is quite the strong word. I’d probably just call it a mistake to trade Mitchell this offseason for anybody let alone a 2 years controlled C.

Big difference between 80 grade speed (Mitchell & Carroll) and 70 grade-speed (Chourio & Ruiz) and most of the others you mentioned.

 I don’t care that he doesn’t elevate right now, I’d prefer he hits line drives and use his speed to run around the bases. The power will come eventually like it does from many good hitters with strength.

I just don’t understand how any Brewers fan can watch Mitchell play baseball and think it a good idea to include him in any trade, let alone for a C with only 2 years of control.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Time to move on.

[Brewcrew82]

29 minutes ago, SF70 said:

Asinine is quite the strong word. I’d probably just call it a mistake to trade Mitchell this offseason for anybody let alone a 2 years controlled C.

Big difference between 80 grade speed (Mitchell & Carroll) and 70 grade-speed (Chourio & Ruiz) and most of the others you mentioned.

 I don’t care that he doesn’t elevate right now, I’d prefer he hits line drives and use his speed to run around the bases. The power will come eventually like it does from many good hitters with strength.

I just don’t understand how any Brewers fan can watch Mitchell play baseball and think it a good idea to include him in any trade, let alone for a C with only 2 years of control.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Time to move on.

Except you're getting your facts wrong here. Mitchell doesn't have 80-grade speed. He has 70-grade speed, as do Chourio and Ruiz. Carroll actually has 80-grade speed and was the fastest player in baseball this year. 

As I said, a lot of wishful fan thinking going on from you regarding Mitchell, which conflicts with what virtually all of the industry experts have said/are saying. 

[SF70]

10 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Except you're getting your facts wrong here. Mitchell doesn't have 80-grade speed. He has 70-grade speed, as do Chourio and Ruiz. Carroll actually has 80-grade speed and was the fastest player in baseball this year. 

As I said, a lot of wishful fan thinking going on from you regarding Mitchell, which conflicts with what virtually all of the industry experts have said/are saying. 

Baseball America has Mitchell with 80 grade speed. Mitchell is 6th in baseball with a sprint speed of 30.2 feet/second. Mitchell is first in baseball from HP to 1B at 4.01 seconds. Those are the facts.

I’m now moving on. 

[Brewcrew82]

30 minutes ago, SF70 said:

Baseball America has Mitchell with 80 grade speed. Mitchell is 6th in baseball with a sprint speed of 30.2 feet/second. Mitchell is first in baseball from HP to 1B at 4.01 seconds. Those are the facts.

I’m now moving on. 

Okay. My bad. I don't have a BA subscription, so I was looking strictly at Pipeline and Fangraphs, which both have him listed at 70 alongside Chourio, Frelick, and Ruiz. But it's essentially a matter of degrees and top line speed does not a superstar or unicorn make in the absence of a consistent hit tool and in-game power, which is how BA, like all other outlets, evaluates Mitchell. We'll see what happens this offseason. 

[Hopper]

23 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Okay. My bad. I don't have a BA subscription, so I was looking strictly at Pipeline and Fangraphs, which both have him listed at 70 alongside Chourio, Frelick, and Ruiz. But it's essentially a matter of degrees and top line speed does not a superstar or unicorn make in the absence of a consistent hit tool and in-game power, which is how BA, like all other outlets, evaluates Mitchell. We'll see what happens this offseason. 

Can you please, just for one single time, accept that you might be wrong, or that someone else has an opinion that differs from yours and they might be right?

I don't know how anyone can stand to read your posts here any longer.  Everything you say creates conflict, which then follows with 2 or 3 pages of back and forth, all because you just can't accept that people might disagree with you, and you MUST be right.  I don't understand why anyone bothers trying to have a conversation with you, because it always ends up the same.

I have been reading this board for years, literally YEARS!  You are by far the most impossible person to interact with on these boards.  Constantly having drama and discontent.  You are probably in the top 2 posters for condescending and holier than thou nonsense, and it continues to be allowed.

It's to the point that I just need to block you, but if I do, then the context of so many other posts/threads are ruined, making it hard to see the flow of the content.  I mean, you comment on almost every single post made here until you have proven to yourself that you are right.

It is beyond irritating, yet it continues daily, hell, hourly.

I have never left a message board due to one poster before, but that is where this is headed.  I may be the only person here that feels this way, but I suspect there are others.

Can you just try, maybe for a day, to accept other people's opinions without the pissing contest that always ensues?  Geez.

 

[Brewcrew82]

5 minutes ago, Hopper said:

Can you please, just for one single time, accept that you might be wrong, or that someone else has an opinion that differs from yours and they might be right?

I don't know how anyone can stand to read your posts here any longer.  Everything you say creates conflict, which then follows with 2 or 3 pages of back and forth, all because you just can't accept that people might disagree with you, and you MUST be right.  I don't understand why anyone bothers trying to have a conversation with you, because it always ends up the same.

I have been reading this board for years, literally YEARS!  You are by far the most impossible person to interact with on these boards.  Constantly having drama and discontent.  You are probably in the top 2 posters for condescending and holier than thou nonsense, and it continues to be allowed.

It's to the point that I just need to block you, but if I do, then the context of so many other posts/threads are ruined, making it hard to see the flow of the content.  I mean, you comment on almost every single post made here until you have proven to yourself that you are right.

It is beyond irritating, yet it continues daily, hell, hourly.

I have never left a message board due to one poster before, but that is where this is headed.  I may be the only person here that feels this way, but I suspect there are others.

Can you just try, maybe for a day, to accept other people's opinions without the pissing contest that always ensues?  Geez.

 

This belongs in a PM, not in the forum.

But his opinion about Mitchell is not one that's close to mainstream which is what I (and another poster) was trying to get across. He was the one who responded to two separate trade proposals (including one of mine) involving Mitchell by emphatically saying, "there's no way I trade him. No! you just don't do that."

But you will notice that this entire conversation was about baseball, while your posts never are these days. You only complain about other posters. 

 

[Hopper]

27 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

This belongs in a PM, not in the forum.

But his opinion about Mitchell is not one that's close to mainstream which is what I (and another poster) was trying to get across. He was the one who responded to two separate trade proposals (including one of mine) involving Mitchell by emphatically saying, "there's no way I trade him. No! you just don't do that."

But you will notice that this entire conversation was about baseball, while your posts never are these days. You only complain about other posters. 

 

I complain about you, and you only.

I'm done responding to you.  I'll try the ignore/block feature and see how bad the flow of the threads becomes.  Since you post in every thread, hundreds of times, it will be choppy.

Probably a good time to bail for a while anyway.

 

[Brewcrew82]

Back on subject, I think how the catcher position is determined will tell us a lot about how the FO is approaching the season. If it's Caratini and Feliciano, then we'll know it's more of a retooling year. I just hope that's not the case. Between FA and the trade market, there are a lot of different options out there. 

[Robocaller]

5 hours ago, SF70 said:

Asinine is quite the strong word. I’d probably just call it a mistake to trade Mitchell this offseason for anybody let alone a 2 years controlled C.

Big difference between 80 grade speed (Mitchell & Carroll) and 70 grade-speed (Chourio & Ruiz) and most of the others you mentioned.

 I don’t care that he doesn’t elevate right now, I’d prefer he hits line drives and use his speed to run around the bases. The power will come eventually like it does from many good hitters with strength.

I just don’t understand how any Brewers fan can watch Mitchell play baseball and think it a good idea to include him in any trade, let alone for a C with only 2 years of control.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Time to move on.

By any chance are you Garrett Mitchell, his agent, or among their friends and family? Your perception is outside the range of most objective people.

We had a poster who was the father of one of our prospects. He was very nice until the prospect proved he was a AAAA guy by stinking it up in the majors and the father couldn't handle the criticism piled on his son.

.

[SF70]

7 hours ago, Robocaller said:

By any chance are you Garrett Mitchell, his agent, or among their friends and family? Your perception is outside the range of most objective people.

We had a poster who was the father of one of our prospects. He was very nice until the prospect proved he was a AAAA guy by stinking it up in the majors and the father couldn't handle the criticism piled on his son.

.

LOL. 
No I’m not Garrett Mitchell, a friend or relative of GM or know GM personally. I only want to be taken at my word with regards to GM. I just don’t want him traded this offseason, especially for a C with only 2 years of control.

To eventually win a WS this team will need to accumulate an enormous amount of young, controllable talent, not trade it off for only 2 years of a player, no matter who it is.

When the team has a talent like Mitchell, he should become untradable UNTIL the team thinks he won’t approach his ceiling. If the team believes that to be the case now then fine, trade him in the right deal, but I’m guessing they don’t think that.

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Please, everyone, let's get back on topic here. There's no need to start jabbing each other with personal comments. If you don't care for someone's baseball take, consider not responding or putting the other user on ignore if it become unbearable.

[Robocaller]

19 hours ago, SF70 said:

LOL. 
No I’m not Garrett Mitchell, a friend or relative of GM or know GM personally. I only want to be taken at my word with regards to GM. I just don’t want him traded this offseason, especially for a C with only 2 years of control.

To eventually win a WS this team will need to accumulate an enormous amount of young, controllable talent, not trade it off for only 2 years of a player, no matter who it is.

When the team has a talent like Mitchell, he should become untradable UNTIL the team thinks he won’t approach his ceiling. If the team believes that to be the case now then fine, trade him in the right deal, but I’m guessing they don’t think that.

When you say that, what I hear is: "Our top 8 prospects are too precious to trade." We have a 2 year window of Burnes and Woodruff; trading any of our prospects would be reasonable to take advantage of that window. OTOH, it's equally reasonable to trade B&W&Adames, and reload with MLB-ready players who can be part of a winning team by 2024.

[SF70]

2 hours ago, Robocaller said:

When you say that, what I hear is: "Our top 8 prospects are too precious to trade." We have a 2 year window of Burnes and Woodruff; trading any of our prospects would be reasonable to take advantage of that window. OTOH, it's equally reasonable to trade B&W&Adames, and reload with MLB-ready players who can be part of a winning team by 2024.

I don’t believe in the Burnes/Woodruff window. I don’t believe in windows period. I think this franchise can mimic Cleveland, and contend on a yearly basis without rebuids.

I don’t want to trade-off all of WA, BW, CB & EL this offseason and reset. I want to trade or non-tender Renfroe, let Wong go, and trade Burnes.

Let our incredibly talented OF’s develop at the big-league level, Turang at 2B, buy an innings-inning starter and use Burnes to add the super-high-end near big-league ready pitching lacking in this organization so we can extend our starting pitching power far into the future.

With the rules changes, next year it will be easier to break-in our speedy and athletic rookies. This team can use the money savings to buy a C, and a HL arm for the bullpen.