Did Counsell throw away history?

[Ghostbear]

Did Craig Counsell's decision throw away history? My perspective is absolutely. Corbin Burns had one of his best performances in two years, throwing a no hitter against the Yankees for 8 innings. While, I know, he had 100+ pitches through those 8 innings, he was throwing a no-hitter.  My goodness, how often doe that happen? He should have been given the 9th inning to at least finish a 9 inning no-hitter.  Then, since the Brewers didn't score in the 9th and nor did the Yankees, Devin Williams could have been brought in in the 10th innings.  The Brewers scored in the 11th inning, and then Williams or Uribe could have been given the bottom of the 11th to finish it off.  Thus, giving Corbin Burns and Devin Williams  an 11 inning no hitter and making an astounding mark not only in Brewers history, but major league history.  As we witnessed, both Williams and Uribe (with Sal Frelick's great catch) finished off the Yankees through 10 innings.  Allowing Burns to complete 9 innings (assuming he would have continued the no hitter) would have enabled that to happen.  My God, when you're looking at an 11 inning no hitter, making baseball history,  let Burns do 9 and let Williams do 10 and 11.  Why NOT?? You're talking about major league baseball history here.  Instead, Counsell relies on his "formulae."  This was not a "normal game." It was a no-hitter against the Yankees in Yankee Stadium-think about the historical significance here, and it was the Brewer's pitchers who were achieving it. So, why not let your best do their best and finish the game? It was their game to win or lose, it was their game to make history with-it sure as hell wasn't Payamps game of history, it certainly and sure as hell was not Chafin's (who shouldn't even be in the Brewer's bull pen)  game to win or his history! No, and it sure as hell was not Hoby Milner's game to win in History. It was Corbin Burn's no hitter and game in history, and if anyone else, Devin William's game to win and game in history.  Counsell ignored the significance of the game, he also ignored the significance of the game in history particularly for Burns and Williams.  When I was watching, and he took Burns out, and then took Williams out, and particularly brought in Chafin, I had to get up and walk around because I kept saying to myself, " What the hell is Counsell doing? Doesn't he realize the moment his team, particularly his two star pitchers are in? For God sakes, let them do what they do, it's their game to win or lose."  Besides that, he could have won the game with Frelick on third and Caratini on first when Monasterio was up in the 10th. BUNT THE DAMN BALL!!! THERE'S ONLY ONE OUT AND YOU CAN GET THAT LEADING RUN IN WITH A MONASTERIO BUNT.  Come on man! Do you hate bunting so much that you'd rather hope for a Monasterio hit, than have him sacrifice bunt and get the run home? Maybe Monasterio would have been thrown out at first with Caratini going to second-so what!  How many double plays that keep you from winning games are you going to have happen, before you wake up to how bunting is a weapon especially getting a run home to win a game? Sal Frelick is a very fast player, and Monasterio should have been given a chance to get him home with a bunt.  Then Williams would have had a chance to win the game, and make history.  Many people believe Counsell should be a candidate for manager of the year-his decisions the last few games indicate to me he's desperate and is managing according to hope rather than being aggressive and coaching to win.  Particularly, when his decisions steal a historical no hitter from two of his best pitchers.  Both Burns and Williams deserved better managing decisions.  I'm sick to my stomach about this-let your great players play, don't steal history from them.  

[Playing Catch]

I appreciate the nod to historical feats, but until the Brewers score a run, the manager's job is to win the game. If it were 3-0, 4-0, perhaps there is an argument. But I think he absolutely made the correct decision to bring in Williams after Burnes left it all on the field with 109 pitches in 8 no-hit innings. It stinks, but the Brewers are in a playoff chase, and personal feats, regardless of their rarity, cannot be placed in front of team goals. Also, part of the team goals is keeping Burnes healthy. He's fundamental to the team's chances in reaching a world championship.

[sveumrules]

NPDR (No Paragraphs Didn't Read)

[BrewerFan]

No.

-He didn't "throw away history," because he didn't have his ace go ~125 pitches in a 0-0 game that STILL wouldn't have been over.

-He didn't throw away history because they didn't try a squeeze play. 

-He didn't throw away history because he didn't have his closer try and go 2 innings.

 

MAYBE you do some of these things if it's the post-season. But with a 4 game lead on Sept 10th, this is foolish IMO.

Also, I don't think he refused to bunt. I think it was more him counting on Monasterio to put the ball in play and NOT hit into a DP. I'd guess the odds were higher of scoring there that way as opposed to a squeeze(or it sounds like you're calling for a safety squeeze). 

[BrewerFan]

2 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

NPDR (No Paragraphs Didn't Read)

This is a good rule. I completely missed this part the first time because...it really is tough to read such a long rant without paragraphs. It's not being some grammar nazi either, it's just...not easy to read. 

Quote

Many people believe Counsell should be a candidate for manager of the year-his decisions the last few games indicate to me he's desperate and is managing according to hope rather than being aggressive and coaching to win.

I have no clue how he appears "desperate," because he DIDN'T overthrow his best starter and best reliever(I suppose you could argue Burnes isn't the best starter. I wouldn't, but some have expressed they'd prefer Woody in a game 1 or 7). 

[jerichoholicninja]

Why hasn't this guy been banned yet?

[Underachiever]

Does this mean we don't believe that Burnes' ankle was hurting from turning it in the seventh?

[Playing Catch]

3 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Why hasn't this guy been banned yet?

Because he has some thoughts that are much different than many others. Because there are nuggets here and there that I find interesting, even though I think they may be wrong. It's fresh. I like Ghostbear every once in awhile. Maybe, once a month.

[jerichoholicninja]

There's difference of opinion and then there's spewing unintelligible hot garbage.

[markedman5]

It wasn’t 100 pitches it was 109 pitches……..and since they didn’t score in the 9th he would have had to go not 1 more but at least 2 more innings to complete the no hitter…….with no guarantee that we would have the lead even then.

He absolutely did the right thing…….we couldn’t score…..that’s why we couldn’t get a no hitter…….as a side note……I’ve noticed that since the Phillies allowed Lorenzen to push his limit to finish off a no hitter he has pitched horribly…….not bad…….Horribly!
 

 

[duewizard]

Use paragraphs. I'm sure you have interesting points to make but the way the text is structured makes it impossible to read,

[SomewhereInTime]

I ain't reading all that.  Answer is no.

[TURBO]

I want to read it, I really do, but just can't bring myself to sift through it.

 

[torts]

17 hours ago, sveumrules said:

NPDR (No Paragraphs Didn't Read)

Hes taking the "one call, that's all" approach to his writing and paragraphs 

[CheezWizHed]

Ok, enough bashing on a poster's writing style. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore and move on.

[RobDeer 45]

Agreed, no matter how far out a poster's opinion is, they don't deserve to be bashed.  I'm very conservative when it comes to pitchers so I think it was the right move to pull him.  Not only do we have a playoff race on our hands but the potential trade value he brings us in the offseason is also something to be cautious with.  We need him healthy.