2023-24 Wisconsin Basketball season thread

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, Brewin said:

I'm a little surprised as I don't believe he's projected to be a R1 selection. Maybe he chasing more NIL money than Bucky's willing to pay....

IF he returns to CBB & they need to pay more to keep him, I suspect they will.

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Badger women with a nice second-half comeback to advance.  When I hear Southern Indiana, thoughts of Bruce Pearl coming into Madison are still in my head.

 

Just when I thought that was totally purged from my brain.......thanks a lot!!!

Next I suppose you're going to bring up North Dakota State.

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

I have no idea if this link will work properly, but I'll give it a shot...

In the roughly 300 games since the end of 2015, Wisconsin ranks #20 in T-Rank. Fourth in the B1G. Call that average if you wish.

I think the goal and ambition of any program in that position is to try and keep climbing to the top. For some, they view Gard as maxxing out his potential as a coach. In my opinion, I don't think there is any doubt that Gard is a student of the new landscape in college hoops, and has moved toward those changes. He is not as staid as his reputation suggests. Allowing players like Johnny Davis and A.J. Storr to do what they do, and in general, loosening up the offense (an uncharacteristic offensive team in terms of efficiency this season), or navigating the portal/NIL does not demonstrate a Paul Chryst-like refusal to acknowledge the changes in his sport. Being able to recover from the locker-room leak, or the Moore tragedy, and continue to sustain their level off success simply doesn't provide me with doubt over the leadership of Greg Gard, but rather confirms my belief in it.

The question people need to ask themselves is, "Which coach is best positioned to lead this program back to great heights?" For me, the answer remains Greg Gard.

Terrific post.

As long as it's objective & balanced I don't mind some of the questioning of GG. Surely this was a roller-coaster season & this program traditionally doesn't fluctuate like that. If I read Macintosh correctly the next year (or maybe two) could be critical. But the good this year was very, very good, and the obstacles brought about by the changes in the sport combined with the other stuff you pointed out need to be kept in mind. Wherever they'd have to be for me to think a change is in order, it's quite a bit south of where they are now.

[RedStickBrew]

23 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

IF he returns to CBB & they need to pay more to keep him, I suspect they will.

My sense is that UW is likely treating it as if he’s gone. I believe if a player elects to be part of the draft he can not return to college no matter if he’s drafted or not. AJ would need to remove his name from the draft by a certain date before he could return to college. The issue is that UW can’t sit by and wait for his decision during that eval period. 
 

My guess is that UW may have told him they will make it work somehow if he elects to return which may end up being good news

[wallus]

2 hours ago, LouisEly said:

At this point he is not hiring an agent so he can maintain his eligibility while getting feedback from the league.

Not a bad decision.

I forgot this may be a historically bad draft so maybe he should go.

[BrewerFan]

6 hours ago, wallus said:

Bad decision, he isn't ready.

Most players drafted aren't ready...but I'm not even seeing him show up in a 2rd mock draft. I see Kolek as a mid 2nd(which is interesting for the Bucks) as I think he makes a pretty damn good backup NBA PG.

6 hours ago, LouisEly said:

At this point he is not hiring an agent so he can maintain his eligibility while getting feedback from the league.

Not a bad decision.

Gives him leverage either way. If he gets positive feedback, he'll get drafted, if not, he gets another year on a really talented team and likely gets paid.

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, wallus said:

I forgot this may be a historically bad draft so maybe he should go.

Two questions, 

1-Any question Essegian decides to stay at UW if he does go? Playing time would seemingly open up and I thought he looked better on the defensive end as the season progressed. I had a feeling he would enter the portal with the lack of PT, but...I'm not all that dialed into CBB.

2-Is there a shot Chuckie Hepburn can make it in the league? At 6'2, he's explosive. I was caught off guard at a couple of his attempted put-backs. He can get up there.

He's also a bulldog on defense and I think he can be a good shooter. Not in the same role obviously, but hypothetically on a team like Dallas with a bigger PG, any chance he can play a role as a 2nd ball handler and spot-up shooter? I think he's coming back for another year...maybe a chance to prove either way, but curious to hear what you think. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

5 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

My sense is that UW is likely treating it as if he’s gone. I believe if a player elects to be part of the draft he can not return to college no matter if he’s drafted or not. AJ would need to remove his name from the draft by a certain date before he could return to college. The issue is that UW can’t sit by and wait for his decision during that eval period. 
 

My guess is that UW may have told him they will make it work somehow if he elects to return which may end up being good news

The last day he can pull out of the draft is June 16.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, BrewerFan said:

Two questions, 

1-Any question Essegian decides to stay at UW if he does go? Playing time would seemingly open up and I thought he looked better on the defensive end as the season progressed. I had a feeling he would enter the portal with the lack of PT, but...I'm not all that dialed into CBB.

2-Is there a shot Chuckie Hepburn can make it in the league? At 6'2, he's explosive. I was caught off guard at a couple of his attempted put-backs. He can get up there.

He's also a bulldog on defense and I think he can be a good shooter. Not in the same role obviously, but hypothetically on a team like Dallas with a bigger PG, any chance he can play a role as a 2nd ball handler and spot-up shooter? I think he's coming back for another year...maybe a chance to prove either way, but curious to hear what you think. 

If Storr goes & everyone else stays, IMO Essegian still won't start. So I would much doubt it.

[MrTPlush]

15 hours ago, wallus said:

Bad decision, he isn't ready.

Sometimes I ponder, does a college kid ever contemplate the draft and the fans of said team say, "Awesome, dude is ready!"

[MrTPlush]

12 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

My sense is that UW is likely treating it as if he’s gone. I believe if a player elects to be part of the draft he can not return to college no matter if he’s drafted or not. AJ would need to remove his name from the draft by a certain date before he could return to college. The issue is that UW can’t sit by and wait for his decision during that eval period. 
 

My guess is that UW may have told him they will make it work somehow if he elects to return which may end up being good news

I know the Badgers don't get a lot of NBA prospects so let me just say, he is very far from gone. Plenty of guys every year will go into the draft process to learn. Many of them have zero expectation to stay in the draft process...simply want the feedback from scouts on what they should improve on to better their stock. If I had to guess, I don't think Storr actually expects to be in the draft. Probably just wants feedback and maybe NIL negotiation. 

Also, why can't they sit around and wait? Storr is arguably their best player, especially so if we are looking at next year in a hypothetical sense. Gard and Co. are going to say a prayer every night between now and then, NIL is going to work around the clock to get him back, and the Badgers would embrace him even if he waited to the last second. Is there really some valuable target out there to fill every open scholarship plus his if he were to leave? No...Storr is miles above what they would reasonably replace him with if he went into the draft. 

I don't think there is a school in the country that is going to move on from a guy entering the NBA draft process without an agent after popping off for 17 points a game in less than 30 minutes a game. Definitely not Wisconsin.

[LouisEly]

12 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

The issue is that UW can’t sit by and wait for his decision during that eval period. 

They kind of can.  If needed, they can do for Carter Gilmore what they did with Isaac Lindsey and give him a NIL deal equal to in-state tuition in lieu of a scholarship.

Last year UW had 13 on scholarship + Lindsey on NIL.  Losing Wahl, Essegian, and (90% chance of) Yalden.  Freitag and Robison coming in.  Assuming Yalden is off the team (not necessarily transferring - he might just leave the team to focus on life decisions and school), that leaves 12 including Storr plus Lindsey back on scholarship.  They'll try to bring in a 4 from the portal to replace Yalden, so if Storr comes back and they bring in a transfer then they just put Lindsey back on NIL.

[wallus]

9 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Most players drafted aren't ready...but I'm not even seeing him show up in a 2rd mock draft. I see Kolek as a mid 2nd(which is interesting for the Bucks) as I think he makes a pretty damn good backup NBA PG.

There are plenty of players that are ready when they get drafted. Storr is an NBA athelete at least with some potential. The draft being awful this year it may be the time to try it. 

If Kolek can play passable defense, he may have a role as a backup point guard. (that is his ceiling)

[wallus]

9 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Two questions, 

1-Any question Essegian decides to stay at UW if he does go? Playing time would seemingly open up and I thought he looked better on the defensive end as the season progressed. I had a feeling he would enter the portal with the lack of PT, but...I'm not all that dialed into CBB.

2-Is there a shot Chuckie Hepburn can make it in the league? At 6'2, he's explosive. I was caught off guard at a couple of his attempted put-backs. He can get up there.

He's also a bulldog on defense and I think he can be a good shooter. Not in the same role obviously, but hypothetically on a team like Dallas with a bigger PG, any chance he can play a role as a 2nd ball handler and spot-up shooter? I think he's coming back for another year...maybe a chance to prove either way, but curious to hear what you think. 

1. I am COMPLETELY fine with Essesgian transferring. He is a sieve on the defensive end and gets hunted whenever he is on the court. He has one Big Ten level skill (shooting threes).

2. Chuckie is a smart and crafty player. I know he makes very very good money in the NIL so I think he stays. Offensively he is going to need work if he wants to play in the NBA.

[wallus]

1 hour ago, MrTPlush said:

Sometimes I ponder, does a college kid ever contemplate the draft and the fans of said team say, "Awesome, dude is ready!"

Yes? With NIL money, borderline guys will be staying in college longer.

Storr is projected as a late 2nd round draft pick at the moment. 

[stoutdude04]

Ive heard he's been offered 600-800k from multiple schools, including Wisconsin.

Take it for what it's worth obviously.

[RedStickBrew]

1 hour ago, LouisEly said:

They kind of can.  If needed, they can do for Carter Gilmore what they did with Isaac Lindsey and give him a NIL deal equal to in-state tuition in lieu of a scholarship.

Last year UW had 13 on scholarship + Lindsey on NIL.  Losing Wahl, Essegian, and (90% chance of) Yalden.  Freitag and Robison coming in.  Assuming Yalden is off the team (not necessarily transferring - he might just leave the team to focus on life decisions and school), that leaves 12 including Storr plus Lindsey back on scholarship.  They'll try to bring in a 4 from the portal to replace Yalden, so if Storr comes back and they bring in a transfer then they just put Lindsey back on NIL.

I agree with everything you said. I understand the scholarship gymnastics that can occur. To clarify my point about not waiting on his decision was meant more about recruiting over him in the portal. I doubt Gard is putting offers out to the wings he has saying he isn’t sure yet about Storr and how that might affect their playing time. We aren’t likely to get too many quality guys coming in under those circumstances. 

[RedStickBrew]

2 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

I know the Badgers don't get a lot of NBA prospects so let me just say, he is very far from gone. Plenty of guys every year will go into the draft process to learn. Many of them have zero expectation to stay in the draft process...simply want the feedback from scouts on what they should improve on to better their stock. If I had to guess, I don't think Storr actually expects to be in the draft. Probably just wants feedback and maybe NIL negotiation. 

Also, why can't they sit around and wait? Storr is arguably their best player, especially so if we are looking at next year in a hypothetical sense. Gard and Co. are going to say a prayer every night between now and then, NIL is going to work around the clock to get him back, and the Badgers would embrace him even if he waited to the last second. Is there really some valuable target out there to fill every open scholarship plus his if he were to leave? No...Storr is miles above what they would reasonably replace him with if he went into the draft. 

I don't think there is a school in the country that is going to move on from a guy entering the NBA draft process without an agent after popping off for 17 points a game in less than 30 minutes a game. Definitely not Wisconsin.

I couldn’t agree more, Storr is not ready for the NBA and Wisconsin would take him back in a heartbeat. I’m putting some stock into his statement which had a tone of goodbye, thanks for everything Badger Nation, etc. Just seemed liked a goodbye the way I read it. I am also familiar with players like Sharif O’Neal, Shaq’s boy, who entered the draft process and did not get drafted and now playing in the G-league. I could see Storr going that route too

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, wallus said:

There are plenty of players that are ready when they get drafted. Storr is an NBA athelete at least with some potential. The draft being awful this year it may be the time to try it. 

 

I may be wrong because the NBA isn't my thing, but when Sam Dekker was drafted wasn't it generally acknowledged that he wasn't a 'complete' enough player to help immediately? Yet he heard enough to justify leaving early (I know he had back issues that hamstrung him too). I guess I'm wondering if Storr, who has a lot of talent but obvious deficiencies in his game, is hearing some of the same stuff Dekker heard. The big difference is he can stay & still cash checks. And I firmly believe Storrs' deficiencies would improve more if he were at UW than playing in the G-League, if it came to that.

And of course, is he still OK with playing school?

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 hours ago, LouisEly said:

They kind of can.  If needed, they can do for Carter Gilmore what they did with Isaac Lindsey and give him a NIL deal equal to in-state tuition in lieu of a scholarship.

Last year UW had 13 on scholarship + Lindsey on NIL.  Losing Wahl, Essegian, and (90% chance of) Yalden.  Freitag and Robison coming in.  Assuming Yalden is off the team (not necessarily transferring - he might just leave the team to focus on life decisions and school), that leaves 12 including Storr plus Lindsey back on scholarship.  They'll try to bring in a 4 from the portal to replace Yalden, so if Storr comes back and they bring in a transfer then they just put Lindsey back on NIL.

Agree. Nowadays there are different ways to make room on a roster. The fly in the ointment though is the timeline. Will Storr take until the middle of June to decide? Everyone knows they're actively looking for a 4, but they are also kicking the tires on some bigger wings (including someone that helped beat them last week). It's tricky to do that if Storr plays "Should I stay or should I go?" right up to the deadline while a transfer may be basing his decision on that, and all the while other schools are shopping too.

[Samurai Bucky]

29 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

And of course, is he still OK with playing school?

Oh Jim... we all know that there is no more "Student" required in the "Student / Athlete" equation.  

[MrTPlush]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I may be wrong because the NBA isn't my thing, but when Sam Dekker was drafted wasn't it generally acknowledged that he wasn't a 'complete' enough player to help immediately? Yet he heard enough to justify leaving early (I know he had back issues that hamstrung him too). I guess I'm wondering if Storr, who has a lot of talent but obvious deficiencies in his game, is hearing some of the same stuff Dekker heard. The big difference is he can stay & still cash checks. And I firmly believe Storrs' deficiencies would improve more if he were at UW than playing in the G-League, if it came to that.

And of course, is he still OK with playing school?

He left early because he knew it was his peak opportunity. His stock was dramatically inflated due to the Final Four teams. Make deep postseason runs, be a notable player on one, and be something of NBA material and you will catapult yourself to be at least a Round 2 pick. Another year was unlikely to magically fix his deficiencies. 

As much as another year can help show you improved on deficiencies, it can also prove you aren't fixing them. Hunter Dickinson could have probably been a 2nd round pick after his freshman year and even his sophomore year...now he isn't even likely to be drafted at all. Is that good or bad for him? I guess it depends on your aspiration to be a draft pick and play in the NBA even if the stay is short. Though as someone else mentioned, these days you can make over $1mil in college...so the jump is oddly riskier than it used to be.  

[Jim French Stepstool]

Always a fools' errand to assume how transfer portal battles are going to turn out, But some sources are saying UW is in great shape for Frankie Fidler, a 6'7" forward from Omaha of the Summit League who had a terrific JR year. He's planned 3 trips & Madison is the only one involving substantial travel. They're also serious about William Kyle, a power forward at South Dakota State.

Both attended the same high school as Chucky Hepburn.

[RedStickBrew]

Glad Mac came out with a statement of support for Gard.

 

[RedStickBrew]

10 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Always a fools' errand to assume how transfer portal battles are going to turn out, But some sources are saying UW is in great shape for Frankie Fidler, a 6'7" forward from Omaha of the Summit League who had a terrific JR year. He's planned 3 trips & Madison is the only one involving substantial travel. They're also serious about William Kyle, a power forward at South Dakota State.

Both attended the same high school as Chucky Hepburn.

Fidler and Kyle would both be good additions. Fidler is a good athlete, pretty long, can shoot and get to the rim. Kyle is pretty good around the rim, physical, and rebounds and blocks shots.
 

I know Fidler is planning a visit this weekend. Maybe a commitment is coming? I have not heard if Kyle has a visit scheduled.