AAA roster (and discussion on new stateside roster limits)

[jay87shot]

I was making a list today and got confused with some guys who could be on the AAA team, also our IF and relief depth at AAA is crazy. 

Current stock Mlb roster (no additions): Contreras, Bauers, Turang, Adames, Black Frelick, Chourio, Wiemer, Mitchell, Yelich, Haase, Montesario, Miller? Pitchers= Burnes, Peralta, Miley, Rae, Gasser, Ross, Wilson, Williams, Payamps, Uribe, Milner, Megill, Peguaro     (For this I am not really worried if you flip Perkins for Weimer, Clarke for Peguaro, Dunn for Miller etc., I just put in the most tenured with big league team)

That puts my AAA roster some thing like this

C)Quero, Nola, Naverreto 1B)Clarke, Warren 2B)Dunn, J Jones, Campbell, Y Hernandez, Valerio  SS)Murray, Zamora 3B)Dorrian, Capra OF)Perkins, Roller, Hicklen, Sparks, C Rodriguez, I Collins(if), D Garcia (not sure who this is)

Rotation) C Rodriguez, Junk, McKendry, McGee, Semenaris? Pen=Clarke, Viera, Small, Andrews, Hudson, Bukauskas, Patrick, Myers, Meeker, Thompson, Paredes, Carlson, Yeager, L Contreras, P Fernandez, Chirino, Middendorf, Bennett, Zastryzny

Is there any one on this list that we have already cut/lost? Is there any one I forgot? I didn't really take options into account so there is likely a flip threre as well. I know some are non-roster guys who won't make it to the season and some will like go to AA.

Basically what does our AAA team look? To  me we have a crazy amount of pen depth to trade from and some AAA IF to sort out.

[CheeseheadInQC]

9 hours ago, jay87shot said:

I was making a list today and got confused with some guys who could be on the AAA team, also our IF and relief depth at AAA is crazy. 

Current stock Mlb roster (no additions): Contreras, Bauers, Turang, Adames, Black Frelick, Chourio, Wiemer, Mitchell, Yelich, Haase, Montesario, Miller? Pitchers= Burnes, Peralta, Miley, Rae, Gasser, Ross, Wilson, Williams, Payamps, Uribe, Milner, Megill, Peguaro     (For this I am not really worried if you flip Perkins for Weimer, Clarke for Peguaro, Dunn for Miller etc., I just put in the most tenured with big league team)

That puts my AAA roster some thing like this

C)Quero, Nola, Naverreto 1B)Clarke, Warren 2B)Dunn, J Jones, Campbell, Y Hernandez, Valerio  SS)Murray, Zamora 3B)Dorrian, Capra OF)Perkins, Roller, Hicklen, Sparks, C Rodriguez, I Collins(if), D Garcia (not sure who this is)

Rotation) C Rodriguez, Junk, McKendry, McGee, Semenaris? Pen=Clarke, Viera, Small, Andrews, Hudson, Bukauskas, Patrick, Myers, Meeker, Thompson, Paredes, Carlson, Yeager, L Contreras, P Fernandez, Chirino, Middendorf, Bennett, Zastryzny

Is there any one on this list that we have already cut/lost? Is there any one I forgot? I didn't really take options into account so there is likely a flip threre as well. I know some are non-roster guys who won't make it to the season and some will like go to AA.

Basically what does our AAA team look? To  me we have a crazy amount of pen depth to trade from and some AAA IF to sort out.

I think a few of those guys listed are out of options and would have to be exposed to waivers (Vieira, Bukauskas, Jones. Contreras signed elsewhere I believe as a free agent. A few will be back in Double-A (Warren, Valerio, Sparks, Rodriguez (OF), at least one of Murray and Zamora, and probably a couple of the pitchers as well).

I've got 14 hitters and 17 pitchers slated there right now, figuring injuries and opt-outs will drop it to 13/15 by the time the season starts. Apologies if I am forgetting someone.

C: Quero, Nola, Navarreto

IF: Clarke, Dunn, Zamora, Capra, Dorrian, Hernandez

OF: Wiemer, Roller, Hicklin, Campbell, Collins

SP: Gasser, Rodriguez, Junk, McKendry, McGee

RP: Hudson, Clarke, Small, Andrews, Koenig, Chirino, Meeker, Myers, Paredes, Patrick, Thompson, Zastryzny

It is a deep bullpen, especially seeing as there are seven guys I've got slated for the Biloxi bullpen who have at least a mildly intriguing case to be on the Nashville roster as well. The Brewers are also so ridiculously thin at the outfield spots at AA that it wouldn't shock me if Campbell or Collins starts in Biloxi, even though they should be in AAA, just to get more at-bats.

[jay87shot]

I would really hate to lose Vieira, it really shows how deep our pen is maybe our  10-12th best reliever at this point. I know it is unlikely but would it be possible to trade relievers for some AA OF depth?

[Ro Mueller]

Each of Junk, Patrick and Myers has a case to start or be in the ‘pen. With McGee perhaps still recovering from TJ surgery, I assume we’ll keep most of them stretched out.

I also think it’s likely that one of Perkins, Wiemer or Mitchell starts the season in AAA, which only adds to the AAA OF glut.

As usual, a few players will likely be stashed in April-May: Development List, injured list, ACL roster, temporarily inactive, etc.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

The Brewers typically overload on AAA by signing minor league vets.  Injuries and releases typically resolve this depth "issue" If not, there is always the trade for cash considerations option.  Its nice to have the depth going into spring training.

If you think AAA depth is crazy, take a look at Rookie/A ball pitching depth. I count 44 pitchers already, not including DSL promotions and the 2024 draft class.  It will be interesting to see how they get innings for all these guys.

[brewcrewdue80]

Is Quero a certainty to start in AAA?  I've wondered on him hanging back in AA to catch Miserioski while he develops to a promotion to AAA.  That's the future duo you hope spend 7 seasons together winning a few GG and CY multiple times right?  Certainly Miserioski's ramp up year in terms of innings allowed to pitch. Good for both development.

[Matt]

2 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Is Quero a certainty to start in AAA?  I've wondered on him hanging back in AA to catch Miserioski while he develops to a promotion to AAA.  That's the future duo you hope spend 7 seasons together winning a few GG and CY multiple times right?  Certainly Miserioski's ramp up year in terms of innings allowed to pitch. Good for both development.

I think Quero is more likely to start in MLB than he is in AA.

[Ro Mueller]

I can't help but think that reduced Minor League roster rules are impacting the signing of minor league free agents, particularly starting pitchers in the case of the Brewers.

Last offseason, we signed Colin Rea, Thomas Pannone, Collin Wiles, Robert Stock, Pedro Fernandez and Tobias Myers - who'd all predominantly started in AAA, Japan, Korea or Mexico in 2022.

Thus far this offseason, the only signee which fits this profile is Easton McGee, but I believe he's still recovering from surgery. The next-closest signee is Chad Patrick (21 games in AA, 6 games in AAA in 2023).

Maybe we want to see our young minor leaguers at Spring Training in March before making some tough cut decisions at those levels, before then adding available AAA-level free agents. We'll see.

Or maybe I'm just bored and anxious and the experienced AAA-level minor league level signings (some with early opt outs) will come over the next 6 weeks.

[duewizard]

Still waiting on what they will do, but some guys that interest me:

Jose Bravo- Struggled with Minnesota in AA and AAA but has done great with Culiacán this winter. Could be interesting in AAA.

Casey Sadler- Old vet with a decent Major League record. Had shoulder surgery and struggled in AAA after he returned. Could be interesting to see if we can help him get back to his former self.

Matt Wisler- Another old vet with a decent record. Struggled in AAA with Toledo and Buffalo. Has a pretty good slider that interests me. 

Raffi Vizcaíno- Struggled in AAA because of a really high BB/9 but has some great K stuff. Has done great in the Dominican Winter League.

[wiguy94]

11 hours ago, damuelle said:

I can't help but think that reduced Minor League roster rules are impacting the signing of minor league free agents, particularly starting pitchers in the case of the Brewers.

Last offseason, we signed Colin Rea, Thomas Pannone, Collin Wiles, Robert Stock, Pedro Fernandez and Tobias Myers - who'd all predominantly started in AAA, Japan, Korea or Mexico in 2022.

Thus far this offseason, the only signee which fits this profile is Easton McGee, but I believe he's still recovering from surgery. The next-closest signee is Chad Patrick (21 games in AA, 6 games in AAA in 2023).

Maybe we want to see our young minor leaguers at Spring Training in March before making some tough cut decisions at those levels, before then adding available AAA-level free agents. We'll see.

Or maybe I'm just bored and anxious and the experienced AAA-level minor league level signings (some with early opt outs) will come over the next 6 weeks.

Patrick wasn't even a signing. We traded Toro for him.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

It could also mean that the brewers minor leagues is deeper than last year, so no need to sign AAAA depth.

[duewizard]

17 hours ago, ClosetBrewerFan said:

It could also mean that the brewers minor leagues is deeper than last year, so no need to sign AAAA depth.

Last year was plenty deep and we ended up signing Julio Teheran. Its always good to have pitching depth. Just in case.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

If the Brewers want to sign more pitchers to AAA, I say go for it. I'm not arguing that. Just saying the Brewers already have a lot of depth.  I'm counting 22 AAA pitchers and 18 AA pitchers.  Its already going to be a challenge to find a spot for all these players, even with the inevitable injuries.

[Ro Mueller]

I speculated on this possible constraint earlier: 

 

[Joseph Zarr]

1 hour ago, damuelle said:

I speculated on this possible constraint earlier: 

 

Hopefully, this also means a possible and unexpected boon to the Atlantic/Pioneer/<insert Independent League of choice here> Leagues nationwide. As we've seen for many years now, there are fantastic baseball players playing everywhere. Oftentimes, these talented young men simply need that right set of serendipitous circumstances. And, obviously, with the give-and-take of the most recent CBA, these affiliated roster spots became all the more coveted given the upgrades given to the players. I continue to be amazed by those Indy League players and wish them all the chance to rise through the ranks.

[Jim Goulart]

Here's what I have (calculated within my birthday tracker spreadsheet):

307 Brewers players currently in the organization - this includes all 35 players from the January international signing period)

Subtract the 40-man roster = 267 minor league players

Subtract the 111 players yet to debut stateside = 156 players currently count against the 175-player offseason stateside limit

The 165-player in-season stateside limit (I would imagine) does not face enforcement until the Maryvale rookie complex season begins in June.

So, as of the date of that June Maryvale start compared to now, the Brewers could add nine players between AAA down to rookie ball. Of course, releases, long-term injured list assignments and departures (such as trades) from those levels would allow significantly more to be brought on board, whether from the DSL or as minor league free agents.

And even with two teams in the DSL, there won't be 111 active players in the Dominican. The Brewers have shown a respectful hesitancy regarding DSL releases. Nearly every player gets a second season (or at least a significant partial second season) to perform.

Have a good spring camp, guys!

 

[jw5511986]

7 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

Hopefully, this also means a possible and unexpected boon to the Atlantic/Pioneer/<insert Independent League of choice here> Leagues nationwide. As we've seen for many years now, there are fantastic baseball players playing everywhere. Oftentimes, these talented young men simply need that right set of serendipitous circumstances. And, obviously, with the give-and-take of the most recent CBA, these affiliated roster spots became all the more coveted given the upgrades given to the players. I continue to be amazed by those Indy League players and wish them all the chance to rise through the ranks.

Can only speak for my parents but they have enjoyed the hell out of the Milkmen games they have attended. These leagues are getting better and better in terms of quality of play and quality of life for players. One of the guys they have come to know in FL has played for the Milkmen the last two summers and has brought his young family up with him because the pay is more "doable" than it has been in the past.

I'm with you, hope the stateside limits only further enhance the quality of these leagues, would love for baseball to have a localized live gate resurgence.

[Ro Mueller]

28 minutes ago, Mass Haas said:

So, as of the date of that June Maryvale start compared to now, the Brewers could add nine players between AAA down to rookie ball. Of course, releases, long-term injured list assignments and departures (such as trades) from those levels would allow significantly more to be brought on board, whether from the DSL or as minor league free agents.

Thank you Mass Haas. I suspect the first point of difficulty will occur when we option 11-14 guys to AAA at the end of March.

Yeah, it’s likely to be an extremely competitive spring training (heck - season, considering the June stateside promotions, then subsequent draft pick additions) across the entire baseball landscape.

[Joseph Zarr]

37 minutes ago, jw5511986 said:

Can only speak for my parents but they have enjoyed the hell out of the Milkmen games they have attended. These leagues are getting better and better in terms of quality of play and quality of life for players. One of the guys they have come to know in FL has played for the Milkmen the last two summers and has brought his young family up with him because the pay is more "doable" than it has been in the past.

I'm with you, hope the stateside limits only further enhance the quality of these leagues, would love for baseball to have a localized live gate resurgence.

Amen to that!

[CheeseheadInQC]

Let me say in advance that I hate, hate, hate the 165-player cap.

That being said, this surprises me.

Unless a lot of teams have reached the offseason cap, it would seem that the triple-A guys would be the ones least affected.

First, while the elimination of a level of rookie ball has undoubtedly affected the composition of low-A rosters and had smaller impacts on high-A and perhaps even double-A, I don’t think those effects are really being felt in triple-A.

Second, I would imagine a lot of teams are in the same situation the Brewers are in now, where every new triple-A signing is likely to be met with a release or long-term IL stint when they break camp, not from a 165 perspective but simply from an individual team roster and logistics perspective.

I could see it maybe being slightly down from last year, but it seems the loosening of the individual team roster limits post-pandemic would probably help the triple-A guys more than the 165 would hurt them.

And the lower levels are obviously a different story.

[igor67]

Given the shift in valuations, the marginal team value of signing 30year old+ AAAA type players is way lower then a lottery ticket rookie ball spot so I can definitely see why certain types of AAA free agents are going to feel the squeeze.

[Ro Mueller]

7 hours ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

Let me say in advance that I hate, hate, hate the 165-player cap.

That being said, this surprises me.

Unless a lot of teams have reached the offseason cap, it would seem that the triple-A guys would be the ones least affected.

I suspect that 90% of the story is the pileup which slow free agency has caused (e.g. 124 MLB/AAA-level free agents on Fangraphs).

So we’ve got a number of players out there still hoping to clinch an MLB contract or split contract.

And within that group of 124 players are also guys who would typically sign MILB deals with a flexible opt-out, but that’s where MLB teams may be trying to exercise increased negotiating power to deny them the opt-out.

It’s going to be a crazy spring training, with lots of fringe players being signed, DFA’d, claimed, DFA’d again…all while they’re supposed to be in camp!

[Joseph Zarr]

1 hour ago, damuelle said:

I suspect that 90% of the story is the pileup which slow free agency has caused (e.g. 124 MLB/AAA-level free agents on Fangraphs).

So we’ve got a number of players out there still hoping to clinch an MLB contract or split contract.

And within that group of 124 players are also guys who would typically sign MILB deals with a flexible opt-out, but that’s where MLB teams may be trying to exercise increased negotiating power to deny them the opt-out.

It’s going to be a crazy spring training, with lots of fringe players being signed, DFA’d, claimed, DFA’d again…all while they’re supposed to be in camp!

[Joseph Zarr]

I keep waiting on my guy RHP Tyler Herb. He got so absolutely jobbed by that injury last year. He was playing his best ball. Slinging that white rat with skill and savvy. Injury. Boom. Season done. He has yet to sign with any organization. I check his MiLB page every day. I keep hoping he re-ups with Nashville. But, man, he is in that same scenario you are speaking to @damuelle. And, this is coming off an unknown severity of injury. His website is suddenly down and he hasn't posted on twitter since April of last year. Sheeeesh, I sound like a creepy stalker🤣. In reality, he's just one of my favorite of the unheraldeds.

[Playing Catch]

The only reason I am not a huge fan of the restrictions is because the Brewers have ramped up their player development to an impressive degree. If this were 2014, I'd probably think, "Well it's about time MLB did something to prevent the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox from vacuuming up all of the international talent!!"

This being said, I think these restrictions have been a *major*consideration for the offseason transactions that subtracted Hendry Mendez, Robert Moore, Ryan Brady, Cam Devanney, Jace Avina, Brian Sanchez (he's the one that I'm actually the most curious about), Justin Chambers, and Ethan Small.

Now of course, there were other considerations, such as 40-man crunch, etc. And in addition, they've clearly added a bunch of MiLB free agents as well. But I wonder if they were feeling like guys like Mendez, Moore, Devanney, Avina and Sanchez could get back some level of value, rather than just having to release guys later. There are plenty of guys that they can/will release w/o worrying about it too much, but I think they looked down the road a year or two, and thought they may as well try to get something of value now rather than inevitably losing them for nothing later.

*edit to change - okay, you're right... probably not a MAJOR consideration.