2024 - 25 Wisconsin Basketball Thread

[Playing Catch]

On 8/26/2024 at 2:14 PM, nate82 said:

Off topic but US schools start way too late in the learning experience for foreign languages to actually work or stick.  The best time to start learning a foreign language would be k-5 and not middle school or later.

Plus the foreign language credits is the dumbest requirement.  Rant done.

I realize this isn't the correct forum for this, but I could not agree more with everything that you've written.

Firstly, I think foreign language SHOULD be mandatory from Pre-K on.

Secondly, my failing my French exams prevented my earning my BA on time, and all of the money I spent re-taking French because I failed it so often was really frustrating.

And who are we kidding with those 5-day-a-week at 8:00 am classes? For a freshman??

[nate82]

Badgers are not ranked in the top 25 to start the season.  Marquette comes in at 18.

College basketball rankings: Kansas earns No. 1 spot in preseason AP Top 25 poll ahead of Alabama, UConn - CBSSports.com

[CheezWizHed]

20 hours ago, nate82 said:

Badgers are not ranked in the top 25 to start the season.  Marquette comes in at 18.

College basketball rankings: Kansas earns No. 1 spot in preseason AP Top 25 poll ahead of Alabama, UConn - CBSSports.com

I fixed the link as it was just taking me to some weird page with a bunch of ads... 

Wisconsin did get a few votes for the top 25, but certainly frustrating how both BB and FB teams were regularly in the top 25 of polls and now we can't seem to touch either one. 😞

Seems like even in the past, we'd start off the 25 and work our way on... now that hasn't happened in a while. 

[nate82]

45 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

I fixed the link as it was just taking me to some weird page with a bunch of ads... 

That is the last time I will use the link feature on the CBS site at least on my phone.

[yourout]

On 10/14/2024 at 12:15 PM, nate82 said:

Badgers are not ranked in the top 25 to start the season.  Marquette comes in at 18.

College basketball rankings: Kansas earns No. 1 spot in preseason AP Top 25 poll ahead of Alabama, UConn - CBSSports.com

Really have no idea how the year is going to play out.

[Samurai Bucky]

7 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I fixed the link as it was just taking me to some weird page with a bunch of ads... 

Wisconsin did get a few votes for the top 25, but certainly frustrating how both BB and FB teams were regularly in the top 25 of polls and now we can't seem to touch either one. 😞

Seems like even in the past, we'd start off the 25 and work our way on... now that hasn't happened in a while. 

McIntosh has it figured out...

[Jim French Stepstool]

Since practice has started awhile ago & we aren't all that far from the start of the regular season I thought I'd give a little synopsis of how I view the team so far.

POINT GUARD

Daniel Freitag, Camren Hunter & Kamari McGee seem to have gotten the most work. Freitag is obviously the clubhouse leader talent-wise but so much depends on the game slowing down for him as a freshman, making good decisions, consistency. It wouldn't surprise me if he started there in game one, nor would I be surprised if he came off the bench. He's also seen a little work at 2-guard. Hunter was a scorer at Central Arkansas, not a particularly adept 3PT shooter but relies more on strength & a mid range game. Very good FT shooter. His history suggests he turns it over a little more than you'd like from a PG. Has gotten a little more comfortable on the floor in recent days. McGee was, at times, great off the bench last year & a defensive sparkplug. Many think he won't shoot well enough to get a lot of minutes, but if there are four other shooters out there he'll be fine. Tyler Wahl is gone & Carter Gilmore SHOULD get fewer minutes so that won't be the problem it was last year. Honestly, any of these three could start at PG when the season opens, but if it isn't Freitag it will be eventually.

WING

John Blackwell, assuming health, IMO would be hard pressed not to be the teams' scoring leader. He's athletic & can score at all three levels similar to (I DIDN'T SAY AS GOOD AS, I SAID SIMILAR TO) Mike Finley or Johnny Davis. And when active, he's a guy that can get to the line ten times a game, too. Max Klesmit is a little banged up right now, but has made himself into more than a 3PT shooter. Team leader. Might even play a little PG if needed. And both these guys are effective defenders. John Tonje is an interesting cat. Has a lot of experience, and at 6'5" & 220 he looks like a guy who'd score in the paint & get some double-doubles at the mid-major level, but he actually shot more than acceptably from 3PT range at Colorado State. He's a physical guy who in his career has drawn a lot of fouls, on both ends of the floor. Another good FT shooter. Hunter may wind up playing quite a bit off the ball, too. Jack Robison is a freshman who I see being behind some folks this time around.

POST

The most interesting thing here to me, is the rumors of Nolan Winter being tried at the 4. I didn't think there was much chance of that, but it's happening. I just don't see how he can defend some of the more athletic 4s he'd face. We'll see. Xavier Amos is a 4 that can step out & shoot--culture shock after Tyler Wahl (who I nevertheless liked) manning the position. Amos is athletic as well, but strength & board work are ?'s heading into the season. Supposedly he never did much weight work in the past & has added some good pounds so hopefully he'll hold up. Steven Crowl isn't & probably never will be a game-changer protecting the rim, but his offense can make up for it as long as he doesn't pull the occasional disappearing acts that sometimes plagued him. When you're in a good spot & have a size edge, DEMAND THE BALL. If things work out as planned, Carter Gilmore is the 'fourth' big--a role someone with his experience & work ethic should fill just fine. Markus Ilver will once again challenge him for PT. He inched ahead of him last season but his reputation as a shooter never materialized & Gilmore inched back ahead.

 

In closing, the transfers are pretty critical to whatever success the team has. How long it takes those three, along with Winter & Freitag, to learn Gards' defensive rules & concepts should be telling. Best case scenario, it's a team with more than enough talent & experienced depth. Let's see how the pieces fit.

[Samurai Bucky]

Great stuff, @Jim French Stepstool

[endaround]

Throw this here I guess:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/41852970/virginia-tony-bennett-retiring-ahead-basketball-season

Weird timing and he is still rather young. Not sure if something is going to come out or he just decided to walk away.

[Oxy]

I think that McGee and Gilmore are going to play A LOT early in the season, and there will be a lot of frustration because their offense isn't great.  But they know the rules, play defense, and take care of the ball.  I just don't see more than 1 of the newcomers being on the floor at the same time until January rolls around.

Anything can happen this year--but I'll be disappointed if they miss the Tourney.

[Jim French Stepstool]

On 10/18/2024 at 10:04 AM, endaround said:

Throw this here I guess:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/41852970/virginia-tony-bennett-retiring-ahead-basketball-season

Weird timing and he is still rather young. Not sure if something is going to come out or he just decided to walk away.

I never met Tony, but I was fortunate enough to once get into a brief conversation with his dad. While they aren't carbon copies of each other I suspect the apple hasn't fallen all that far from the tree. I really believe the changes in college sports the last couple years have had a large impact on Tonys' decision. It IS odd that he went a handful of days into practice before making the decision, but his comments alluded to not liking the direction of the game & I buy that as the main reason.

[Jim French Stepstool]

On 10/18/2024 at 10:57 AM, Oxy said:

I think that McGee and Gilmore are going to play A LOT early in the season, and there will be a lot of frustration because their offense isn't great.  

 

As long as they aren't both on the floor together I don't think the lack of offense will be a big issue. It's not like last season when you had Wahl on the floor with one of those two & the defense could do some major sagging.

You're spot-on about their defense, experience & soundness. Especially in the case of McGee I wouldn't be surprised if he's one of the top 8-9 all season.

[Playing Catch]

I think Klesmit and Blackwell will start. I think the question about who the point guard is won't matter, because the rest of the candidates will have limited bench minutes.

[Jim French Stepstool]

I wasn't at the red-white scrimmage on Sunday but saw some footage from it & comments from a couple people who were there. While focusing mostly on the newbies, Just a few things I gleaned:

If the season started tomorrow McGee is definitely the starter at PG. There may be times when Klesmit or Blackwell help out there but I think it's still a competition between him, Freitag & Hunter (although it looks to me like Hunter may be best suited for off the ball).

John Tonje looks like someone that can score in a variety of ways. Uses his body & strength really well. And can knock down a jump shot.

A couple Minnesota kids who aren't headliners played very well. If they maintain health I don't see a lot of opportunities for Jack Robison this season, but he looked comfortable playing within the offense, was very active & can shoot it. Jack Janicki is a walkon who redshirted last season. He had a couple D-1 offers so isn't a typical walkon, and showed it yesterday--very good floor presence, had some impressive finds to open teammates & shot the ball very well. Like Robison I find it hard to see minutes for him right now but he impressed.

[jay87shot]

What do we think a rotation looks like

1)Mcgee 20, Frietag 15, Hunter 5

2)Klesmit 30, Hunter 10

3)Blackwell 25, Tonje 15

4)Winter 15, Amos 15, Gilmore/Ilver 10

5) Crowl 30, Winter 10

I am forgetting someone important.

[homer]

1 hour ago, jay87shot said:

What do we think a rotation looks like

1)Mcgee 20, Frietag 15, Hunter 5

2)Klesmit 30, Hunter 10

3)Blackwell 25, Tonje 15

4)Winter 15, Amos 15, Gilmore/Ilver 10

5) Crowl 30, Winter 10

I am forgetting someone important.

Sounds like they might give that Italian kid, Ricardo Greppi, some minutes at Center presumably.

[Oxy]

On 10/15/2024 at 8:43 AM, CheezWizHed said:

Seems like even in the past, we'd start off the 25 and work our way on... now that hasn't happened in a while. 

5 seed last year.  3 seed conference champs 3 years ago...Which is top 20 and top 12 entering the Tourney by definition.

UW hasn't made a Tourney run in awhile.  Any other critique and people either don't pay attention to UW or don't pay attention to the normal up-and-down nature of EVERY PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY bar none.  Which is true I suppose.  Regular season CBB is a rather niche sport.  I love it though.

[CheezWizHed]

1 minute ago, Oxy said:

5 seed last year.  3 seed conference champs 3 years ago...Which is top 20 and top 12 entering the Tourney by definition.

UW hasn't made a Tourney run in awhile.  Any other critique and people either don't pay attention to UW or don't pay attention to the normal up-and-down nature of EVERY PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY bar none.  Which is true I suppose.  Regular season CBB is a rather niche sport.  I love it though.

But were they actually ranked before/after the tourney?  Seeding a tournament does take other factors in than just the top 25 ranking. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, jay87shot said:

What do we think a rotation looks like

1)Mcgee 20, Frietag 15, Hunter 5

2)Klesmit 30, Hunter 10

3)Blackwell 25, Tonje 15

4)Winter 15, Amos 15, Gilmore/Ilver 10

5) Crowl 30, Winter 10

I am forgetting someone important.

With his ability to score & his versatility on both ends I think Blackwell averages a fair piece more than 25 minutes. And if Freitag improves his comfort level as the season goes on his # could wind up being higher & McGees' a bit lower. IMO twenty-some MPG are there for the taking for either Winter or Amos if either separates from the other, but who knows if that will happen?

But other than Blackwell, I think you nailed where everyone is right now pretty closely.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, homer said:

Sounds like they might give that Italian kid, Ricardo Greppi, some minutes at Center presumably.

Glad you mentioned him b/c I neglected to. In the little bit I saw of the scrimmage footage, you can tell he has a European-style game to him. A passer & mover. Made one or two real nice feeds from the high-to-mid post area. I just think he's lacking in the strength & (obviously) experience areas to see meaningful minutes. Lotsa competition among the bigs, and even the much maligned guys like Ilver & Gilmore have the edge in system knowledge. But we'll see. Great kid from the interviews I've seen; would love to see him succeed.

[Playing Catch]

Blackwell - 36
Klesmit - 34
Tonje - 30
Winter - 25
Crowl - 30

McGee - 18
Amos - 12
Gilmore - 10
Bench - 5
 

[RedStickBrew]

4 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

Blackwell - 36
Klesmit - 34
Tonje - 30
Winter - 25
Crowl - 30

McGee - 18
Amos - 12
Gilmore - 10
Bench - 5
 

Freitag will play. Probably be starting by mid season I would guess if not earlier

[Jim French Stepstool]

9 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

Blackwell - 36
Klesmit - 34
Tonje - 30
Winter - 25
Crowl - 30

McGee - 18
Amos - 12
Gilmore - 10
Bench - 5
 

Agree with @RedStickBrew. Freitag will get more minutes than 5 max. And they'll have missed the mark on Hunter in a big way if he isn't a rotation piece (although he has a lot of competition for minutes). 

@Oxy raised a good point earlier--McGee & possibly Gilmore will be seeing minutes early. A key will be how guys like Amos, Hunter & Freitag acclimate as the season unfolds. Will they earn more time 5, 10, 12 games in? Even Winter falls into that group---how much growth is there for him at the four?

[Playing Catch]

Freitag and Hunter will need to come a long way to be a better option on the floor than a combo of Blackwell, Klesmit and McGee. All three of those guys are good, or better defenders, and vary from competent to excellent on offense. If Freitag and Hunter are playing meaningful minutes in B1G play, that is a good sign.

I agree with the idea that Winter may need to fight with Glimore/Amos for starter minutes.

In terms of the Badgers depth, or lack thereof, I think the best 5 or 6 players will see big minutes this season. They will need to scrap and claw for every win. If I am wrong, it will be because they will actually be able to space the floor with five shooters for the second time in more than a decade (2019-2020 was first year w/o Happ, and Wahl was a freshman), and they will be elite defensively (often the most important key to a successful Badgers season).

[Jim French Stepstool]

The 'five shooters on the floor' thing is relatively rare for them but a good point. I suspect there will be times you'll see Klesmit running point w/Blackwell & Tonje on the wings vs opponents that don't pick you up 28 ft from the hoop & force the issue. But if we learned anything from the scrimmage & early practices it's that McGee is the starter at PG, for now & maybe for the season. I agree that he, Blackwell & Klesmit are an excellent defensive trio.

But Freitag earned a solid rep as a prep for his defense due to his length, anticipation & propensity to flip the court by creating turnovers. With the attitude he displays I'm confident his trajectory will lead to decent minutes.

Hunter is an interesting case. It's up in the air as to whether he'll be more of a factor on or off the ball (I'm guessing off). If he keeps his head screwed on & works he could contribute. I'm just hoping he didn't come here w/the attitude that Hepburn left, Storr left, so there's an easy path to 32 minutes & 17 shots per game.