2024 - 25 Wisconsin Basketball Thread

[wallus]

The Badgers must absolutely keep Blackwell. The guy is great now and will only get better. He has a toughness that a lot of the other guys lack.

[Oxy]

6 minutes ago, wallus said:

The Badgers must absolutely keep Blackwell. The guy is great now and will only get better. He has a toughness that a lot of the other guys lack.

I don't see how he gets away unless he is really unhappy.  There aren't many guys left! Sounds like Winter is coming back...then you have some rotation pieces in Janicki and Amos but nothing they have to PAY for...then some young guys like Freitag who can hopefully develop.  Gotta add a stud and another solid veteran in the portal.  Who knows?  Hayden Jones might be a contributor.

[RedStickBrew]

11 minutes ago, wallus said:

The Badgers must absolutely keep Blackwell. The guy is great now and will only get better. He has a toughness that a lot of the other guys lack.

I hope we have a plan to surround him with a couple good veteran players from the portal or next year is going to be rough

[yourout]

2 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

I hope we have a plan to surround him with a couple good veteran players from the portal or next year is going to be rough

Rumor Mill has Freeman from Iowa as almost being a lock to come.

[RedStickBrew]

1 minute ago, yourout said:

Rumor Mill has Freeman from Iowa as almost being a lock to come.

I’ve heard that too. I’ll believe it it when I see him in a Badger uniform.  He’s gonna be expensive 

[Jim French Stepstool]

My thoughts (probably some covered already):

Obviously if you're BYU, you're giddy about how well you shot the ball from three. And if you're UW, you're upset about the defense & the open looks. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Their ball movement & the comfort zone they got into offensively was never really offset by anything we did defensively. But especially in the 2nd half, it got to be the type of game where if you man up on the shooter, he puts it on the deck & almost certainly a foul will be called. So they go 12-26, one miss shy of 50%. We never showed consistent enough defensive energy, but you can shoot in an open gym on a given day & not shoot that well. The Cougars stepped up (also 15-16 on FT).

If they're going to shoot that well & never get taken out of their comfort zone, you can't give up Orebs & we gave up a double-digit total. Their bigs weren't great, but around the cup they were better than ours.

I thought we blew a chance late in the half to get to within 3-4 or even better. There was a stretch there where the refs seemed to go into "Oops, they're a three seed. We might be missing something" mode. But never took full advantage of some favorable calls.

I'll forever be grateful to Steven Crowl & Max Klesmit for all the effort they put forth during their careers. But unfortunately they chose today to turn in arguably the most moronic decisions of their careers; Klesmit fouling a mediocre-at-best 3pt shooter, on a late-clock desperation heave no less. Throw in that the kid is 6'8" or whatever & you AREN'T blocking his shot. Then Crowl putting up a shot with several seconds left & a dark shot clock at the end of the half, giving them the last shot instead.  That's six points.

I think I'll trust Gard from now on regarding his portal decisions.

Max finally started to get hot from outside, but overall I thought he had a fairly poor game.

I was treated to some uncanny wisdom after the game, thanks to my not grabbing the remote quickly enough. Charles Barkley was talking about UWs comeback & railing on BYU 'playing scared' late in the game. What a genius. No Chuck, BYU had a bad turnover vs pressure, and allowed (IIRC) three and-ones, instead of just letting the UW player lay the ball in. UW made it a game because they played to the horn, and whatever BYU contributed to that, they weren't playing scared. A little dumb maybe.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, adambr2 said:

Brick, after brick, after brick. 

The wheels are going to come off if some of these don’t start falling.

I know it seemed like they were a bunch of bricklayers tonight. But on the year they shot just a touch over 35% from three. Vs BYU they shot just over 34%. BYU making almost half of theirs was the bigger problem. You COULD argue we shot a few too many.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, adambr2 said:

2 hours ago, adambr2 said:

Someone help me understand why they rushed a shot on the last possession with the shot clock dark and as a result gave up a 3 to end the half to stretch the lead back out to double digits when they could have just held the ball and only been down 8.

 

Just accept that there's no explanation. Horrible decision by one of your seniors.

[RedStickBrew]

A lot to unpack from this game. Two things stand out most so far.

One is a poor game from Winter with 6 points and 4 boards.

Two is three points total from our bench. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Pretty happy to only be down 11, but no excuse for Crowl to shoot a jump hook instead of holding for the last shot. Worst case scenario you're down 8. We lose by 3, that's a huge deal.

BYU was clearly the better team that half. Better shot making and more fluidity. We obviously can't win shooting like this, but the good news is this is going to be played in the 80s or 90s. Lots of possessions left. I would not feel safe with an 11-point halftime lead.

80s or 90s. Or both. Good call.😎.

Pretty rare for a Gard-coached team to struggle in a particular area in the 1st half & not get noticeably better in the 2nd. BYU was comfortable in their HC offense all night long.

 

[wallus]

Who would have ever thought that a Badgers team would score 89 points and lose in regulation.

[Jim French Stepstool]

15 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

A lot to unpack from this game. Two things stand out most so far.

One is a poor game from Winter with 6 points and 4 boards.

Two is three points total from our bench. 

Twenty minutes from Winter. I'm guessing GG felt better about Gilmore playing due to defensive matchups, in a game where we never could string together stops. 

Good point about the bench. I thought Gilmore gave them the sort of play he usually does, more or less. McGee came up with a couple steals but to me neither he, Amos or Janicki ever looked comfortable.

One thing I'd like to point out: I'm almost positive they had three TOs within the first 6-7 minutes of the game. They finished with five. Just another piece of evidence that the main problems were on the other end of the court.

[LouisEly]

Re: Crowl at the end of the first half

How many times have we seen them wait until 8 seconds left in the half to start running their offense only to not end up getting a good look?  It was a relatively high % shot, and I would much rather they take a high % shot with time remaining than wait too long and not get a good look.  I have no issues with it.  As pointed out, there were plenty of other worse decisions (e.g. Klesmit fouling a deep 3 point shot from a 27% 3-point shooter, the technical foul on the bench). 

The bigger factor is that BYU shot 46% from 3 and 94% from the FT line, whereas UW shot 34% from 3 and 79% from the FT line.  That was the difference in the game, not shooting a high % shot with time remaining in the first half.

[LouisEly]

59 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

I hope we have a plan to surround him with a couple good veteran players from the portal or next year is going to be rough

The portal won't be an issue.  Gard has been getting calls since January from agents for players who plan on entering the portal or who would enter the portal if UW was interested.  Players have taken note of what Storr and Tonje have done the last two years.

[RedStickBrew]

8 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

The portal won't be an issue.  Gard has been getting calls since January from agents for players who plan on entering the portal or who would enter the portal if UW was interested.  Players have taken note of what Storr and Tonje have done the last two years.

I look forward to having a discussion about next year’s team. Hopefully we can retain Blackwell and Winter. I think we will need at least 2 if not 3 starter level players from the portal. That won’t be easy

[Jim French Stepstool]

28 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Re: Crowl at the end of the first half

How many times have we seen them wait until 8 seconds left in the half to start running their offense only to not end up getting a good look?  It was a relatively high % shot, and I would much rather they take a high % shot with time remaining than wait too long and not get a good look.  I have no issues with it.  As pointed out, there were plenty of other worse decisions (e.g. Klesmit fouling a deep 3 point shot from a 27% 3-point shooter, the technical foul on the bench). 

The bigger factor is that BYU shot 46% from 3 and 94% from the FT line, whereas UW shot 34% from 3 and 79% from the FT line.  That was the difference in the game, not shooting a high % shot with time remaining in the first half.

BYUs' shooting was the bigger factor overall. But in the vacuum of the final secs of the half, the way the Cougars were rolling to me it's imperative you don't give them a chance to go back down the floor, save for a dunk or uncontested layup. JMO.

The bench tech.......yeah. Looking forward to seeing if there's any talk about that in the days to come. I THINK it was Sharif Chambliss? Not certain though.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, wallus said:

The Badgers must absolutely keep Blackwell. The guy is great now and will only get better. He has a toughness that a lot of the other guys lack.

I don't know if this happens....and it wouldn't necessarily be a huge negative if it didn't....but if they can retain Blackwell I'd love for them to find a way to get him off the ball rather than play PG. They can still dial up iso for him when they want while also allowing him to work off the ball & maybe even do a little posting up. Might keep him a bit fresher.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Lots of good post-mortems here and thoughts ahead to next year.

I thought BYU was the much looser team, with more guys playing with more confidence for more of the game. The more I think of it this biggest issue with Badger teams of recent vintage is that they lack some of that. This year, we had Tonje and Blackwell. Last year, it was pretty much Storr. Davis before that. Lots of deferring to those key pieces.

I think this year's team was very balanced, but comparing it to the Hayes, Kaminsky, Dekker, Koenig, Gasser (or Brust in 14) teams....you can see the huge gap. All five of those dudes wanted the ball but knew their roles (I know Nigel faded a little in 2015). Plus, they could bring an insanely confident Showy or Duje off the bench for either energy or shot-making. That's hard to find these days and harder to build at UW. And, really, it goes for about every non top-4 team this year. One thing about the portal is that these become a bit more like NBA teams, where everyone knows the hierarchy, and BYU had none of that. It is five on the floor, ten deep, everyone sharing and running pace and firing when they sight the hoop. You could see that tonight (I second "playing scared" as ridiculous--that team was feisty and up front all night, they just got the flagrant 2 and turned it over and finally missed shots in the last 3 min).

Underrated credit: BYU's defense. We missed some open looks, but they mixed zone and man effectively and generally stopped our drives to the hoop (Blackwell excepted, I thought he played an incredible game). They forced the ball to Crowl and Gilmore, and though the former made some shots early, he wasn't much of a threat beyond the first quarter. And they were willing to live with his occasional three. Good strategy, well-executed. Tonje and Blackwell got theirs, but BYU defended especially well in the first 35 minutes.

Some fun teams still left. I really like the Big 12 teams as a group. Different flavors but a lot of toughness and fluidity from Tech, Houston, BYU, and Iowa State. For all the SEC talk, would not shock me one bit, if we've got two of those teams in the FF.

[adambr2]

10 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Re: Crowl at the end of the first half

How many times have we seen them wait until 8 seconds left in the half to start running their offense only to not end up getting a good look?  It was a relatively high % shot, and I would much rather they take a high % shot with time remaining than wait too long and not get a good look.  I have no issues with it.  As pointed out, there were plenty of other worse decisions (e.g. Klesmit fouling a deep 3 point shot from a 27% 3-point shooter, the technical foul on the bench). 

The bigger factor is that BYU shot 46% from 3 and 94% from the FT line, whereas UW shot 34% from 3 and 79% from the FT line.  That was the difference in the game, not shooting a high % shot with time remaining in the first half.

Who cares if you don’t get a good look with 1-2 seconds left? Even if you get no look at all you’re still only down 8. The whole point of holding for last shot is that it’s you score or nobody scores. You never want to give up that extra possession. Last possession in a half isn’t about finding the best look you can sometime in the last 30 seconds. It’s about ensuring that it is indeed actually the last possession.

This is true in most circumstances, but especially in a game where you fought hard to at least be within striking distance at halftime and don’t want to do something careless just prior to kill the momentum. 

[homer]

11 hours ago, wallus said:

Who would have ever thought that a Badgers team would score 89 points and lose in regulation.

Someone who was in school when they scored 96 in Round 2 and lost in regulation:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/1994-03-19-missouri.html

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Lots of good post-mortems here and thoughts ahead to next year.

I thought BYU was the much looser team, with more guys playing with more confidence for more of the game. The more I think of it this biggest issue with Badger teams of recent vintage is that they lack some of that. This year, we had Tonje and Blackwell. Last year, it was pretty much Storr. Davis before that. Lots of deferring to those key pieces.

I think this year's team was very balanced, but comparing it to the Hayes, Kaminsky, Dekker, Koenig, Gasser (or Brust in 14) teams....you can see the huge gap. All five of those dudes wanted the ball but knew their roles (I know Nigel faded a little in 2015). Plus, they could bring an insanely confident Showy or Duje off the bench for either energy or shot-making. That's hard to find these days and harder to build at UW. And, really, it goes for about every non top-4 team this year. One thing about the portal is that these become a bit more like NBA teams, where everyone knows the hierarchy, and BYU had none of that. It is five on the floor, ten deep, everyone sharing and running pace and firing when they sight the hoop. You could see that tonight (I second "playing scared" as ridiculous--that team was feisty and up front all night, they just got the flagrant 2 and turned it over and finally missed shots in the last 3 min).

Underrated credit: BYU's defense. We missed some open looks, but they mixed zone and man effectively and generally stopped our drives to the hoop (Blackwell excepted, I thought he played an incredible game). They forced the ball to Crowl and Gilmore, and though the former made some shots early, he wasn't much of a threat beyond the first quarter. And they were willing to live with his occasional three. Good strategy, well-executed. Tonje and Blackwell got theirs, but BYU defended especially well in the first 35 minutes.

Some fun teams still left. I really like the Big 12 teams as a group. Different flavors but a lot of toughness and fluidity from Tech, Houston, BYU, and Iowa State. For all the SEC talk, would not shock me one bit, if we've got two of those teams in the FF.

Very good summary. I'd throw in that Klesmit stepped up pretty well on the offensive end last night (although I didn't think he played an overall strong game on both ends). Even after coming back from the injury I wouldn't be surprised if he was maybe at 75-80%.

[Jim French Stepstool]

11 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

I look forward to having a discussion about next year’s team. Hopefully we can retain Blackwell and Winter. I think we will need at least 2 if not 3 starter level players from the portal. That won’t be easy

Me too. Mods.......maybe the off-season portal should be a separate thread, as opposed to continuing it here?

[homer]

At the end of the day, BYU shot 46% from three - their third-best mark of the season. If they shoot 40% UW wins.

[LouisEly]

2 hours ago, adambr2 said:

Who cares if you don’t get a good look with 1-2 seconds left? Even if you get no look at all you’re still only down 8. The whole point of holding for last shot is that it’s you score or nobody scores. You never want to give up that extra possession. Last possession in a half isn’t about finding the best look you can sometime in the last 30 seconds. It’s about ensuring that it is indeed actually the last possession.

Then all that does is prevent you from being down less than 8.  Why act like it's a guarantee that they'll make a shot?  It's not.  Play good defense after making the shot so that they, at best, have a low percentage shot.

If you're down 8 to a good team, you need to take some chances.

[adambr2]

48 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Then all that does is prevent you from being down less than 8.  Why act like it's a guarantee that they'll make a shot?  It's not.  Play good defense after making the shot so that they, at best, have a low percentage shot.

If you're down 8 to a good team, you need to take some chances.

You know what would have guaranteed that they did NOT make a shot? Holding for last possession. 

An 8 point halftime deficit, against any team, is not a death knell. Given how the half went, I think it’s something that they could have felt good about. Hold for the last shot and your only deficit options at the half were 8, 6, or 5, any of which they could have lived with. There was nothing aggressive about the approach at the end of the first half. It was just bad situational awareness and bad clock management.

Play good defense after making the shot? They didn’t play good defense after missing the shot, so why would the result have been any different?. I’d counter that if the solution was as simple as “play good defense so they have a low percentage shot”, we wouldn’t have given up 91 points.