Legislation being introduced for future funding of American Family Field: UPDATE New lease through 2050

[homer]

1 hour ago, kestrel79 said:

What exactly does "winterizing" mean, did they say? Does it mean replacing the natural grass with fake grass? We know how much of a lightning rod that is right now with Bak on the Packers, increase of injuries.

I just feel like the stadium is pretty winterized already? Those later October and late March baseball games are cold weather too some years.

Jopal is right, what big time US stadium tour takes place in January? Usually they will just play at Fiserv for the winter tours if you're a larger band. The stadium stuff is for the Summer.

 

I think they can only raise the temp 30 degrees from the outside temp. So presumably winterize means raising it to whatever it needs to be. 

[BrewerFan]

I don't want to get into the politics of all this, but I'm just thrilled that the Brewers are going to be here(most likely) through 2050. I think the idea that threats of moving were idle threats is...inaccurate. I think San Antonio would have loved to have had an MLB team, I think Nashville would have been the most likely being a larger market, a city that loves Baseball and one of the most affluent and fastest growing cities.

I did not want to watch the Nashville Brewers AAA team in Milwaukee. 

I understand people who don't think this should be publicly funded, but I'm of the belief that this is important for the city and even more important to a city like Milwaukee than an area like Oakland where there are other entertainment options, another team in the Bay Area. 

 

I'm ALSO hoping that the rumor that the Brewers were withholding 30M a year from their revenue and investing that into potential upgrades for the stadium is true and that money can now go toward the payroll(I doubt that's the case, but who knows).

 

The only way this could be better news is if you had someone with just stupid money like Elon Musk come in and buy the team and not worry about losing a measly 40-50M a year. 

Mr. Bezos...you want to give all your money away to charity? Well, I'm making a wish the Brewers can re-sign Burnes, Woody, Adames and then go out and add Ohtani and you wouldn't even notice a change in your bank account!

Or Wisconsin's own Paul Menard! How cool would it be to have the new "Menard tax?" He's a baseball fan!

 

I don't actually think Attanasio is going to sell because he invested in a Baseball team, but if he did? I mean, hell, I'd committed to only using Kohler toilets if they wanted to come in and spend as well! 

 

But the Brewers are safe it seems! Now...is it too much to tweak this so that the state will also be paying for Jackson Chourio's contract as well?

[homer]

Nashville is spending 1.2 billion dollars in public funds on a new football stadium. I suppose it could be retrofitted for baseball but that would probably not be ideal for a team moving in. So then you're looking at another funding deal to build a new baseball stadium.... would the city pony up? 

[MrTPlush]

12 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I agree with the Mayor here. As the article states, Am Fam has more parking space than Epcot! In "winterizing" Am Fam, there's a real opportunity to develop some of that land in addition. You lose money if that space just sits empty on non-game days. 

https://www.fox6now.com/news/american-family-field-entertainment-district

The problem is, the area is currently a wasteland, a total wasteland. When the Brewers aren’t in town, no one is there. There isn’t an economic area to bolster, supplement, and feed off of. How do you find tenants/builders when the area will be dead over half the year? Not to mention, compete with tailgating (good food and beer that is cheap). The Deer District, STL Cardinals district, and even Lambeau Field don’t really have to compete with people bringing their own food/beer. The Brewers have done little pop-up tailgate/attraction areas in the parking lot before and they are always a flop. 
 

On another note, I think winterizing AmFam is probably largely due to the system needing replacement anyway and the cost to bolster it is probably not that much in the grand scheme. While most larger stadium tours are in the summer, I think there are still plenty of events that take place in the winter they would be looking to attract.

Certainly, it would give Milwaukee a very unique venue that has no real comparable nearby as Chicago and Minneapolis both have outdoor baseball stadiums. Is there an interest in a venue size between that of a basketball arena and a football stadium? I don’t think them hosting Badgers basketball was a coincidence, I think they would bid for an Elite 8. They have had it at Lucas Oil Stadium, so clearly there is an appetite for a bigger venue than a basketball arena can hold.

 

[homer]

10 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

The problem is, the area is currently a wasteland, a total wasteland. When the Brewers aren’t in town, no one is there. There isn’t an economic area to bolster, supplement, and feed off of. How do you find tenants/builders when the area will be dead over half the year? Not to mention, compete with tailgating (good food and beer that is cheap). The Deer District, STL Cardinals district, and even Lambeau Field don’t really have to compete with people bringing their own food/beer. The Brewers have done little pop-up tailgate/attraction areas in the parking lot before and they are always a flop. 

 

Titletown has one bar. I don't think a "Beer District" would have to have a ton in the way of entertainment or bars or restaurants, They could have a mix of residential and commercial. Hank Aaron trail and the river run right through the property which might be attractive to people. 

[kestrel79]

My thought was always leaving the parking lots still in tact, but building up the area between the casino and the stadium and put the district down that way...or is that too far from the stadium? Follow the river and the river walk Hank Aaron Trail would be cool.

Some of those Packer bars like Stadium View, Anduzzis and a couple blocks away from Lambeau and still do really well on gamedays. They aren't near the Titletown district.

But agreed on what others say, the stadium is too far from anything so it's different than a downtown district like the Bucks have.

[BrewerFan]

12 hours ago, homer said:

Nashville is spending 1.2 billion dollars in public funds on a new football stadium. I suppose it could be retrofitted for baseball but that would probably not be ideal for a team moving in. So then you're looking at another funding deal to build a new baseball stadium.... would the city pony up? 

Yes. They've got a group trying to bring a team to Nashville and have been at this for years.

There is a lot of money in Nashville. This was the proposed rendering of a 1.2B retractable roof stadium that was part of a much larger investment for the Nashville Stars. They were hoping to attract the Rays or the As. So I think the Brewers, had they not been able to come to an agreement, would have been a very real possibility. 

[rickh150]

On 9/20/2023 at 12:43 PM, jerichoholicninja said:

I doubt there's enough of a population or disposable income to support both a Deer District and a Beer District. (See what I did there) There's already a beer district just up the hill from the park. I don't think people are going to stop going to their local bar before and after games and start eating and drinking at overpriced bars and restaurants because it's 10 minutes closer to the stadium.

Beer District…Ale Locale…Brews Cruise

[MrTPlush]

13 hours ago, homer said:

Titletown has one bar. I don't think a "Beer District" would have to have a ton in the way of entertainment or bars or restaurants, They could have a mix of residential and commercial. Hank Aaron trail and the river run right through the property which might be attractive to people. 

If it has no relevancy to the Brewers, what are they gaining from it? The difference between titletown and AmFam is the fact the area around Lambeau was nice as-is. Nice residential, other attractions, and Lambeau is an off-season attraction in itself. If Attanasio wanted to invest in real estate and housing, he could find better place to do it.

The area around AmFam is honestly a dump of uselessness to feed off of. VA is 50% of the surrounding area with a cemetery, 40% is like industrial type stuff, and 10% is a small community to the far north on the other side of the highway. Who is going to want to live in a sea of parking lots and cemeteries? What business wants to be there? The area is just nothing, unfortunately.

 

[homer]

9 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

If it has no relevancy to the Brewers, what are they gaining from it? The difference between titletown and AmFam is the fact the area around Lambeau was nice as-is. Nice residential, other attractions, and Lambeau is an off-season attraction in itself. If Attanasio wanted to invest in real estate and housing, he could find better place to do it.

The area around AmFam is honestly a dump of uselessness to feed off of. VA is 50% of the surrounding area with a cemetery, 40% is like industrial type stuff, and 10% is a small community to the far north on the other side of the highway. Who is going to want to live in a sea of parking lots and cemeteries? What business wants to be there? The area is just nothing, unfortunately.

 

That's the rub - the Brewers are gaining more from parking lots than development. The city would gain more from development than parking lots. I think the Brewers would probably like to develop some of that land but they want the same tax deal they have now. 

The vacancy rate for apartments in Milwaukee is 6.6%. Plenty of people would live there. Some mid rise apartments, townhomes along the river, add a hotel, a brewery, office space, etc. What was once a sea of parking is now a lot of buildings. And there's a bunch of retail a mile south of there - it's not as isolated as it looks.

[homer]

By way of comparison, this is everything that the Rays are squeezing into 86 acres. 

Am Fam and the surrounding lots take up 265 acres.

 

[Baldkin]

https://www.cbs58.com/news/gop-brewers-bill-removes-milwaukee-from-stadium-board

 

Quote

 

Bill overhauls who's on stadium board

The bill would also make sweeping changes to the makeup of the stadium district's board. Currently, it's comprised of 13 members: Six appointed by the governor, two by Milwaukee County, one by the city of Milwaukee, and one each from Ozaukee, Racine, Waukesha and Washington counties, which paid into the five-county tax.

Under the GOP proposal, the board would be reduced to nine members: Four appointed by the governor, two appointed by the Assembly speaker, two by the Senate majority leader, and one appointed by the governor from a list of candidates provided by the Brewers.

 

 

 

[paul253]

I’ve been a proponent of developing the area around AM FAM Field and I think it hasn’t been done yet for two reasons. First, plain and simple the Brewers want the parking revenue.  The are very few legitimate alternative to parking in the lot, especially if you have little kids. If I’m going a game with my kids I’m not first stopping at a bar or restaurant and buying an item so I can get on a shuttle to take me to the game. Nor am I parking a mile and a half away on a city street and walking. I’ve done both when I’ve gone without kids and I’d never do either with my young kids. So I’m stuck paying the overpriced parking fee. 
 

Second, infrastructure to get there. There are no main roads that take you right past the lots. There will need to be a huge investment in getting roads to go there so people can actually get to a development. You can extend Miller Parkway but that’s already a parking lot most days around rush hour. You’d need roads to get there from other directions. Maybe you could even convince the Potawatomi to pay for an extension of the streetcar to run past their casino, through the new District and to the Stadium. 
 

Anyway, I think all you need for this to be successful are spaces that are open year round. Restaurants. A hotel. Apartments. Offices. A small dog park maybe. I’d love to see a Milwaukee or Wisconsin Sports Museum down there. Maybe a Gym. A small medical center. Things people go to even when baseball isn’t there. But they key is infrastructure and making it convenient to get to. 

[MrTPlush]

23 hours ago, homer said:

That's the rub - the Brewers are gaining more from parking lots than development. The city would gain more from development than parking lots. I think the Brewers would probably like to develop some of that land but they want the same tax deal they have now. 

The vacancy rate for apartments in Milwaukee is 6.6%. Plenty of people would live there. Some mid rise apartments, townhomes along the river, add a hotel, a brewery, office space, etc. What was once a sea of parking is now a lot of buildings. And there's a bunch of retail a mile south of there - it's not as isolated as it looks.

I’m sure the city wants them to invest around the stadium because then they kind of pin themselves there forever and their argument to get up and leave come 2045 is pretty weak. Obviously the Brewers don’t want to invest in a spot that isn’t technically ever considered permanent. I could see the Brewers trying to pull something like this 20 years from now when they may be begging for an entire new stadium and need 3x what they are requesting now.

If you’re Attanasio and dreaming of investing in residential/retail infrastructure, I’m pretty sure he could find a 1,000 places better in the country to do it. Probably dozens in the SE Wisconsin area that are better. If you were going to invest hundreds of millions, fandom aside, would you really think the AmFam area is anywhere near the top of best places to do it?

[nate82]

7 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

I’m sure the city wants them to invest around the stadium because then they kind of pin themselves there forever and their argument to get up and leave come 2045 is pretty weak. Obviously the Brewers don’t want to invest in a spot that isn’t technically ever considered permanent. I could see the Brewers trying to pull something like this 20 years from now when they may be begging for an entire new stadium and need 3x what they are requesting now.

If you’re Attanasio and dreaming of investing in residential/retail infrastructure, I’m pretty sure he could find a 1,000 places better in the country to do it. Probably dozens in the SE Wisconsin area that are better. If you were going to invest hundreds of millions, fandom aside, would you really think the AmFam area is anywhere near the top of best places to do it?

By 2045 will baseball even be a major sport?  The way it has been trending that would be a no.  It is currently falling farther and farther behind the NBA and NFL.  MLB is clearly the #3 sport in the US and it is far behind the NBA at #2 and the NFL at #1.  Only the NBA has been gaining ground on the NFL in terms of popularity.  It is possible soccer or another sport surpasses MLB at the #3 spot.

I don't think the money will be there for teams to move like they do now.  The NFL and NBA sure but not MLB.  There are only a few cities left where it makes sense to move to and there will be two less in the next 2-5 years.  With the Rays getting their stadium situation handled and the A's looking like they will leave Oakland for Las Vegas it is only a matter of time before expansion starts.  The MLB commissioner has gone on record stating once those two stadium situations are resolved the league will be expanding.

The Brewers will obviously ask for a new stadium come 2045 and they probably will need one at that time.  I am just not sure the economic climate will be the same as it is today when it comes to cities bidding for teams.  Nashville, Charlotte, Salt Lake City, Austin, Montreal and Portland are all possibilities for expansion in the next 2-5 years.  Nashville is probably the only guarantee here to get a team as they have the backing already set in place.  Will Nashville do two new stadiums in a few years?  I am not sure on that but it is possible.

If the Brewers do ask for a new stadium I think they will move the stadium to a more financially viable site.  Probably just tear down that whole area and create a business or industrial park.  I am not sure where else the Brewers could move to once the lease is up but I don't think they would stay in the current area.  Maybe they move to Mequon or the Brown Deer area. 

[MVP2110]

Ryan on MKE Tailgate made what I thought was an excellent point today regarding the lack of an entertainment district in the proposal. It's almost certainly not the Brewers who are against it as they would stand to make boatloads of cash like the owners of the Bucks, Braves, Cardinals, etc. all do in similar situations. But that it would be a terrible look politically in what would essentially amount to the Brewers taking tons of money away from the bars that shuttle to the stadium and instead pocketing it for themselves.

[jerichoholicninja]

12 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

Ryan on MKE Tailgate made what I thought was an excellent point today regarding the lack of an entertainment district in the proposal. It's almost certainly not the Brewers who are against it as they would stand to make boatloads of cash like the owners of the Bucks, Braves, Cardinals, etc. all do in similar situations. But that it would be a terrible look politically in what would essentially amount to the Brewers taking tons of money away from the bars that shuttle to the stadium and instead pocketing it for themselves.

I really doubt the Brewers would care too much about those businesses but because those places exist is why I can't see there being a whole lot of government or citizen support for development.

[Samurai Bucky]

48 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

Ryan on MKE Tailgate made what I thought was an excellent point today regarding the lack of an entertainment district in the proposal. It's almost certainly not the Brewers who are against it as they would stand to make boatloads of cash like the owners of the Bucks, Braves, Cardinals, etc. all do in similar situations. But that it would be a terrible look politically in what would essentially amount to the Brewers taking tons of money away from the bars that shuttle to the stadium and instead pocketing it for themselves.

One thing that works for the Deer district is that it is downtown.  People can walk not only to the Fiserv forum, but to the restaurants there.  Why?  Because there are enough condos, apartments, and campuses (MSOE and Marquette) nearby -- people live there.  Am Fam field is still, sort of, in the middle of nowhere with the buffer of parking lots to help isolate it.

To have an entertainment district, there would need to be something similar to that at the Drexel Town Square in Oak Creek.  You have to get people who will be living nearby.  That and have a lot more restaurants, etc. that people will want to go to.  Maybe there needs to be some more white collar businesses in the vicinity, too.

Imagine what could be if there was a real light rail system in Milwaukee.  The Hop is, well, a bit of a joke.  From what I recall, the Metro in Minneapolis gets people to Target Field, US Bank, etc. quickly and easily (I can certainly be wrong there).  So... throwing spaghetti on the wall in a brainstorming capacity...

• Take some of the area around Am Fam to create condos / apartments
• Build something that will have well-established businesses move down there to get people into that district
• Provide a better mass transit solution to get in and out of that area.
• Put in a hotel or two and have events on a regular basis within Am Fam field in the offseason.  There are plenty of meeting rooms, etc. where they can have larger events.
• Create a covered walkway from the above items to Am Fam so people can walk from the hotels to the stadium in the winter.

Not sure if these are good ideas or if they are even feasible.

[nate82]

The city completely missed by not having Potawatomi linked with the stadium.  The no gambling near muh sports crowd won out.  This would have put the area in a better spot than it is in now.  Just a completely wasted opportunity. 

[homer]

43 minutes ago, nate82 said:

The city completely missed by not having Potawatomi linked with the stadium.  The no gambling near muh sports crowd won out.  This would have put the area in a better spot than it is in now.  Just a completely wasted opportunity. 

Not sure I follow. 

[homer]

3 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

One thing that works for the Deer district is that it is downtown.  People can walk not only to the Fiserv forum, but to the restaurants there.  Why?  Because there are enough condos, apartments, and campuses (MSOE and Marquette) nearby -- people live there.  Am Fam field is still, sort of, in the middle of nowhere with the buffer of parking lots to help isolate it.

To have an entertainment district, there would need to be something similar to that at the Drexel Town Square in Oak Creek.  You have to get people who will be living nearby.  That and have a lot more restaurants, etc. that people will want to go to.  Maybe there needs to be some more white collar businesses in the vicinity, too.

Imagine what could be if there was a real light rail system in Milwaukee.  The Hop is, well, a bit of a joke.  From what I recall, the Metro in Minneapolis gets people to Target Field, US Bank, etc. quickly and easily (I can certainly be wrong there).  So... throwing spaghetti on the wall in a brainstorming capacity...

• Take some of the area around Am Fam to create condos / apartments
• Build something that will have well-established businesses move down there to get people into that district
• Provide a better mass transit solution to get in and out of that area.
• Put in a hotel or two and have events on a regular basis within Am Fam field in the offseason.  There are plenty of meeting rooms, etc. where they can have larger events.
• Create a covered walkway from the above items to Am Fam so people can walk from the hotels to the stadium in the winter.

Not sure if these are good ideas or if they are even feasible.

Komatsu's old plant is right next to the valley (they moved to the Harbor District). There is a ton of room to just create a neighborhood from scratch if they want. But yes they'd need to redo that infrastructure and add some transit in there to make it appealing.

[nate82]

12 minutes ago, homer said:

Not sure I follow. 

There was some discussion at the time that Potawatomi would be connected with the stadium.  I believe Potawatomi wanted to buy part of the land near the stadium to have another casino and hotel.  It has been awhile so going off of memory but it was shot down because of the I don’t want gambling near my sports type of crowd.

Today I don’t think that would be a problem but it was then if I am remembering everything correctly that is.

[homer]

27 minutes ago, nate82 said:

There was some discussion at the time that Potawatomi would be connected with the stadium.  I believe Potawatomi wanted to buy part of the land near the stadium to have another casino and hotel.  It has been awhile so going off of memory but it was shot down because of the I don’t want gambling near my sports type of crowd.

Today I don’t think that would be a problem but it was then if I am remembering everything correctly that is.

Oh ok. I don't remember that. I seem to recall the city balking at their portion of the Miller Park funding going towards a proposed taproom of some kind that would have been just east of the stadium but I don't remember Poto discussions.

[owbc]

57 minutes ago, homer said:

Oh ok. I don't remember that. I seem to recall the city balking at their portion of the Miller Park funding going towards a proposed taproom of some kind that would have been just east of the stadium but I don't remember Poto discussions.

It's a miracle that Miller Park got built at all. A lot of other ideas got thrown out there, but getting the ballpark at all, in the same location with the same set of parking lots, was a miracle. 

To get the entertainment district off the ground, someone needs to throw at least a couple hundred million at it, it's not going to happen organically. A new parking structure to replace the lost surface parking would probably run $50-100 million by itself. It's not going to happen. Running public transit to the current site would be even more expensive and wouldn't make sense unless Milwaukee is planning to build a light rail network, which is definitely not happening anytime soon. The Brewers have clearly done the math and decided that it's not only economically unfeasible for them, but that it's also politically unfeasible to even ask for pubic investment to get it off the ground. I also agree that the Brewers will want to move in the middle of the century and they don't want to be stuck in the valley with whatever stuff gets built around the stadium. I think they will want a downtown Milwaukee ballpark at that time. No other location makes more sense than their current one. 

Target Field is an interesting comparison. On one side is downtown, the basketball arena, and a vibrant entertainment district. On the other side is basically a bunch of highways and a dead zone (although there are some cool breweries along otherwise-deserted streets and they are currently expanding light rail in that direction). The closest Milwaukee equivalent would be to put it north of Fiserv on the old Park East parcels. 

I know it's too soon to talk about demolishing the current stadium, but it feels like we're going to be spending a ton of money to delay the inevitable. I wish they could find a way to spend like $100-200 million to get the clamshell through 2035 and spend the rest on a downtown stadium. 

[patrickgpe]

I tried to copy the tweet, but that wasn't working. Dan O'Donnell reporting that the brewers not getting a stadium deal and leaving is a larger possibility than most fans think.