Brewers at Cubs; Tuesday, June 17 @ 7:05 p.m.: Chad Patrick (3.25 ERA, 3.48 FIP) vs. Ben Brown (5.71 ERA, 3.31 FIP)

[adambr2]

We know nobody is gonna want Rhys at the deadline now, right?

[Bulldogboy]

2 minutes ago, Recovering Chicagoan said:

The big market teams will always spend more money than the Brewers.

It's not about that. We don't need to be the Dodgers. You can upgrade on the edges and have qualified mlb players at each position. We do not.

[Recovering Chicagoan]

3 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

It may be possible for the Brewers to catch the Cubs despite their superior talent and ability to spend money to improve themselves at the trade deadline. But, I’m not holding my great waiting for it to happen.

Probably somewhere between unlikely and highly unlikely.

[folly412]

54 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Brewers have to have depth at the position to give him two weeks. I mean he's playing catcher every day!! I don't get it.

They certainly do.  Quero has been very productive in the couple weeks since returning to AAA.  Seigler catches and plays 2nd and 3rd.  Either would be fine to back up Haase for a bit.  The tradeoff is that the lineup is so weak that Contreras has been one of our better hitters lately despite not having any of his power.

[Brian]

Cubs bullpen has an ERA below 1 in the last 10 games.

[Bulldogboy]

Wilken has 18 hr get the guy to triple a because the clock is ticking and he has got to solve the problem. 

[adambr2]

9 minutes ago, Brian said:

Cubs bullpen has an ERA below 1 in the last 10 games.

Given the lineup they’re facing this week, they should be able to continue that trend.

[RobertCrawley]

37 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

It's not about that. We don't need to be the Dodgers. You can upgrade on the edges and have qualified mlb players at each position. We do not.

The small market argument is an excuse. The Marlins won it all twice. Their goal wasn't summer family entertainment.

[Brewer77]

42 minutes ago, yfinn6 said:

100%. 

This organization hasn't been able to develop many bats and is relying on far too many little guys with zero pop. I understand it's not long term but What were they thinking that it would work? 

Ortiz is just not an MLB player and should be the first out the door. 

They were thinking it’d work because it should be working better than it is. They were 13th in SLG last year with mostly the same cast of characters. Instead much of the team is hitting for demonstrably worse power than they were a year ago

[Oxy]

10 hours ago, adambr2 said:

We know nobody is gonna want Rhys at the deadline now, right?

Shrug.  The guy was WHITE HOT for a month and has been ICE COLD for a month.  If anybody knows what his value will be at the deadline they are lying.  That said, he isn't cheap, so he isn't overly valuable no matter how hot he his.  If you don't get a piece that you really liie....a la Adam Lind for Freddy Peralta or something like that he is probably more valuable to the Brewers.

[BruisedCrew]

10 hours ago, RobertCrawley said:

The small market argument is an excuse. The Marlins won it all twice. Their goal wasn't summer family entertainment.

I don’t think I would hold out the early expansion years of the Marlins as an example or model that the Brewers should aspire to.

They had a pretty competitive payroll in 1997 and things were not as crazy then as they are now.

The 2003  team was one of those rare examples of a relatively low payroll team catching lightning in a bottle in the playoffs. 

The franchise’s record and financial status since then speaks for itself.
 

 

 

[RobertCrawley]

22 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

I don’t think I would hold out the early expansion years of the Marlins as an example or model that the Brewers should aspire to.

They had a pretty competitive payroll in 1997 and things were not as crazy then as they are now.

The 2003  team was one of those rare examples of a relatively low payroll team catching lightning in a bottle in the playoffs. 

The franchise’s record and financial status since then speaks for itself.
 

 

 

The Marlins show that small market teams can win it all. Also Arizona in 2001. Would you prefer decades of summer family fun or one World Series?

[BruisedCrew]

43 minutes ago, RobertCrawley said:

The Marlins show that small market teams can win it all. Also Arizona in 2001. Would you prefer decades of summer family fun or one World Series?

I don’t think the Marlins of 1997 or DBacks in 2001 are good examples of small market teams. Regardless of their market sizes both teams were relatively new expansion teams that were flush with cash from owners willing to spend money to establish interest in their teams. They were both in the top 10 in payroll when they won the series.

But, to answer your question, I know I am in a small minority on this, I would rather have a team that is consistently entertaining to follow and in playoff contention than one that wins a World Series but follows it up with a couple of decades of teams that range from mediocre to abysmal.

I resigned myself many years ago that the chances of the Brewers winning a World Series in my lifetime are substantially lower than 50%, and probably less than 10%. But that doesn’t mean that I would be just as happy if they win 60 games or 90. 
 

My biggest beef with this year’s Brewers team is that it isn’t particularly entertaining because of the punchless offense. Because of that, the very slim chance that they could win the World Series even if they would sneak into the expanded playoffs is significantly lower than years like 2011, 2018, and 2021. 

[RobertCrawley]

18 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

I don’t think the Marlins of 1997 or DBacks in 2001 are good examples of small market teams. Regardless of their market sizes both teams were relatively new expansion teams that were flush with cash from owners willing to spend money to establish interest in their teams. They were both in the top 10 in payroll when they won the series.

But, to answer your question, I know I am in a small minority on this, I would rather have a team that is consistently entertaining to follow and in playoff contention than one that wins a World Series but follows it up with a couple of decades of teams that range from mediocre to abysmal.

I resigned myself many years ago that the chances of the Brewers winning a World Series in my lifetime are substantially lower than 50%, and probably less than 10%. But that doesn’t mean that I would be just as happy if they win 60 games or 90. 
 

My biggest beef with this year’s Brewers team is that it isn’t particularly entertaining because of the punchless offense. Because of that, the very slim chance that they could win the World Series even if they would sneak into the expanded playoffs is significantly lower than years like 2011, 2018, and 2021. 

We'll have to disagree on this. I love the Brewers and will always follow them, but I think the purpose of sport is to try to win it all. Some franchises in sports have gone decades before finally winning it all, but they have always had that goal and worked toward it. I'm disappointed that our ownership has set his sights lower, but I'm not resigned to his modest vision. I hope he changes his mind at some point when he thinks about what sport really means (and spends some money).

[BruisedCrew]

27 minutes ago, RobertCrawley said:

We'll have to disagree on this. I love the Brewers and will always follow them, but I think the purpose of sport is to try to win it all. Some franchises in sports have gone decades before finally winning it all, but they have always had that goal and worked toward it. I'm disappointed that our ownership has set his sights lower, but I'm not resigned to his modest vision. I hope he changes his mind at some point when he thinks about what sport really means (and spends some money).

I'm not sure we are really disagreeing because you are addressing a different question.

I agree that the goal should be to try to win it all. But, the question you asked is whether as a fan I would rather have one World Series and  decades of mediocrity or several seasons of contention.

Put, another way, would you be happier today as a 73 year old fan of the Marlins living off the glow of two World Series wins over 20 years ago, or a fan of a team that for the last 8 or 9 years, and a few others before that, has allowed you to follow the team day by day looking at the standings and evaluating their chances to compete in the playoffs. 

Brewers fans saw the ugly side of this from 1993-2006. Those years would have been miserable even if the Brewers had won the World Series in 1982.

Your comment about money begs the question of whether the current owner, or any owner. would be willing to spend the amount of money that would allow the Brewers to overcome the inherent revenue disadvantage of the small market. Personally, I don't think any realistic amount of money would significantly increase the Brewers chances of winning a World Series while competing against the likes of the Dodgers, Yankees,  Mets, Red Sox, Phillies, Giants, Cubs, Astros, et al. 

There's a reason why only 13 of the 30 MLB teams have won the World Series in the 21 years since the Marlins surprise win in 2003,. Only the Royals in 2015 would be considered "small market" even though their market is much larger than the Brewers'. It isn't that the other 17 franchises aren't trying to win. Even some teams in much larger markets have failed to win while throwing around a lot of money.

[RobertCrawley]

23 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

I'm not sure we are really disagreeing because you are addressing a different question.

I agree that the goal should be to try to win it all. But, the question you asked is whether as a fan I would rather have one World Series and  decades of mediocrity or several seasons of contention.

Put, another way, would you be happier today as a 73 year old fan of the Marlins living off the glow of two World Series wins over 20 years ago, or a fan of a team that for the last 8 or 9 years, and a few others before that, has allowed you to follow the team day by day looking at the standings and evaluating their chances to compete in the playoffs. 

Brewers fans saw the ugly side of this from 1993-2006. Those years would have been miserable even if the Brewers had won the World Series in 1982.

Your comment about money begs the question of whether the current owner, or any owner. would be willing to spend the amount of money that would allow the Brewers to overcome the inherent revenue disadvantage of the small market. Personally, I don't think any realistic amount of money would significantly increase the Brewers chances of winning a World Series while competing against the likes of the Dodgers, Yankees,  Mets, Red Sox, Phillies, Giants, Cubs, Astros, et al. 

There's a reason why only 13 of the 30 MLB teams have won the World Series in the 21 years since the Marlins surprise win in 2003,. Only the Royals in 2015 would be considered "small market" even though their market is much larger than the Brewers'. It isn't that the other 17 franchises aren't trying to win. Even some teams in much larger markets have failed to win while throwing around a lot of money.

There are no guarantees, but if your goal is not to win it all, that's pretty close to a guarantee that you won't. I'd be happier as a fan even if we were terrible but flew a World Series flag in center field. I guess it's a matter of disposition.

[BruisedCrew]

34 minutes ago, RobertCrawley said:

There are no guarantees, but if your goal is not to win it all, that's pretty close to a guarantee that you won't. I'd be happier as a fan even if we were terrible but flew a World Series flag in center field. I guess it's a matter of disposition.

I disagree with your premise that the Brewers don't have a goal of trying to win a World Series. 

Maybe it's just me, but I would not be happy following a perennially terrible team just because the franchise won a World Series 20 years ago. Several of my favorite teams have won the ultimate titles in their sports, and the glow from those titles doesn't last forever. 

[Oxy]

I'm a bit confused here, due to BrusiedCrew's truly 180 degree spin thru a dizzying....dare I say re-troll of some sort of droll opinion unhinged from it's sand placed foundation?  I pity for our nation.

[RobertCrawley]

18 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

I disagree with your premise that the Brewers don't have a goal of trying to win a World Series. 

Maybe it's just me, but I would not be happy following a perennially terrible team just because the franchise won a World Series 20 years ago. Several of my favorite teams have won the ultimate titles in their sports, and the glow from those titles doesn't last forever. 

As I said. It’s a matter of disposition.