If Pittsburgh offered or was asked for Skenes

[brewcrewdue80]

And Milwaukee offered Miz. Who else does Milwaukee need to add?

 

My thinking on why Mil or Pitts agrees for this.

 

Skenes will complete his 2nd year of team control. Miz for the moment will complete below 1 year team control.

Skenes had a combined 30 GS and 160.1 IP last season between majors/minors.

Miz had 97 IP last season and will be up against innings limit sooner than later.

With the Brewers, Skenes could pitch through the playoffs vs sitting at home end of regular season.

With the Pirates, they gain an added 1-2 seasons of an Ace controlled.

 

Who says no?

[nate82]

3 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

And Milwaukee offered Miz. Who else does Milwaukee need to add?

Probably Made and one more minor prospect.  

[wiguy94]

A solid amount more. Skenes has 2 (maybe 1 depending on Misiorowski's ROTY finish) fewer years of control but he's fully built up to handle an MLB workload and has a significantly longer track record of success than Misiorowski. 

[brewcrewdue80]

36 minutes ago, nate82 said:

Probably Made and one more minor prospect.  

Sure. That's not happening.

[brewcrewdue80]

19 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

A solid amount more. Skenes has 2 (maybe 1 depending on Misiorowski's ROTY finish) fewer years of control but he's fully built up to handle an MLB workload and has a significantly longer track record of success than Misiorowski. 

By the time Miz completes his year, that will be the equivalent of Skenes workload last season.

in another lost season, Pittsburgh wouldnt be any further behind with 1 more, possibly 2 years added to their window. That's sorta the in division trade off. Skenes 3 seasons with Milw(clearly traded final offseason) and Pirates 4-5 seasons having Miz. So they better their chances vs Milw in the division when Skenes departs.

[wiguy94]

Just now, brewcrewdue80 said:

By the time Miz completes his year, that will be the equivalent of Skenes workload last season.

in another lost season, Pittsburgh wouldnt be any further behind with 1 more, possibly 2 years added to their window. That's sorta the in division trade off. Skenes 3 seasons with Milw(clearly traded final offseason) and Pirates 4-5 seasons having Miz. So they better their chances vs Milw in the division when Skenes departs.

Skenes last year threw 160 innings and this year is on pace for 180-200 depending on how much the Pirates want to push him. Misiorowski maybe tops out around 130-140 this year.

[liveforoctober]

The two are not comparable right now. Skenes is a Top 3 pitcher in baseball. Miz has had an electric 20 innings. The Brewers would need to overpay handsomely to get Skenes... and that is with Miz in the deal.

[sveumrules]

7 minutes ago, liveforoctober said:

The two are not comparable right now. Skenes is a Top 3 pitcher in baseball. Miz has had an electric 20 innings. The Brewers would need to overpay handsomely to get Skenes... and that is with Miz in the deal.

Yeah, Skenes has 254 IP of 47 ERA- | 60 FIP- under his belt already. He's essentially been Mariano Rivera (career 49 ERA- | 62 FIP-) as a starter.

Misio is electric no doubt, but he can't even match Skenes results over a sample 1/10th the size with 25 IP of 69 ERA- | 94 FIP- so far. He's been more like say Troy Percival (career 69 ERA- | 85 FIP-) as a starter.

[brewcrewdue80]

5 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Skenes last year threw 160 innings and this year is on pace for 180-200 depending on how much the Pirates want to push him. Misiorowski maybe tops out around 130-140 this year.

Got me there, I  thought Skenes started opening day.

 

5 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Yeah, Skenes has 254 IP of 47 ERA- | 60 FIP- under his belt already. He's essentially been Mariano Rivera (career 49 ERA- | 62 FIP-) as a starter.

Misio is electric no doubt, but he can't even match Skenes results over a sample 1/10th the size with 25 IP of 69 ERA- | 94 FIP- so far. He's been more like say Troy Percival (career 69 ERA- | 85 FIP-) as a starter.

Taking each of first 5 career start, it's quite similar.  You can argue Skenes total stats  when Miz' sample size grows.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Mis is all but untouchable. Pairing Mis and Skenes together would be amazing.

Something like

Pratt, Quero, Myers and Patrick (add in a lottery ticket or a comp pick) 

[Scooterfletcher]

5 minutes ago, KCBrewerfan34 said:

Mis is all but untouchable. Pairing Mis and Skenes together would be amazing.

Something like

Pratt, Quero, Myers and Patrick (add in a lottery ticket or a comp pick) 

As a brewer fan, not enough sadly.   Prob gotta add Henderson, Cruz, or someone like that.

[Bulldogboy]

At this point there isn't much reason to keep Skenes if your the Pirates. They are going to finish last until he leaves so stock the cupboard. Keep asking if you're the rest of the league 

[nate82]

11 hours ago, Bulldogboy said:

At this point there isn't much reason to keep Skenes if your the Pirates. They are going to finish last until he leaves so stock the cupboard. Keep asking if you're the rest of the league 

I doubt a team will give up the necessary haul of prospects to acquire Skenes.  You are talking about multiple top 25 prospects in all of MLB for one player.  Not many teams have multiple top 25 ranked prospects.  For the Brewers the conversation starts and ends with Misiorowski and Made.  If you are not willing to give that up then there isn’t a deal to be made.

The reason to keeps Skenes for the Pirates is they won’t get the haul necessary to make that trade.  It is probably best for the Pirates to keep him until he only has two or less years of control.  This is when it would become far more possible for teams to trade away the required talent to acquire Skenes.

[liveforoctober]

11 hours ago, Bulldogboy said:

At this point there isn't much reason to keep Skenes if your the Pirates. They are going to finish last until he leaves so stock the cupboard. Keep asking if you're the rest of the league 

The GM would be wise not to even mention trading Skenes until his controllable years are up. 

If I'm the owner and my GM, who hasn't been able to field me a competitive team, asks me if we can trade the one guy on our team that makes me money..  we would very soon be in the market for a new GM.

[jw5511986]

13 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Got me there, I  thought Skenes started opening day.

 

Taking each of first 5 career start, it's quite similar.  You can argue Skenes total stats  when Miz' sample size grows.

See but we don't have to ignore Skenes stats in favor of a much smaller sample size because we already know what he did. 

I think everyone here loves Miz, it's no shade on him, but 5 starts aside the additional price on our end would be significant, specifically because of his small sample.

[CheezWizHed]

A Skenes/Miz swap is a no-win situation. 

Miz has become a fan favorite (and Skenes in Pitt), so trading either one is going to enrage the fanbase.  Skenes is better right now with perhaps a bit less risk, but their career path potentials overlap quite a bit.  Maybe with Miz having the higher floor and lower ceiling. 

Skenes has a clear short-term advantage (i.e. able to pitch more innings this year), but that amounts to a rental that I wouldn't want to pay much for.  

[TURBO]

The ideal situation would be to keep Miz and have a Skenes/MIZ top of the rotation for the next 5 years.

Probably impossible, but then again, prying Skenes form them is probably also totally impossible without giving up the entire farm.

Fun to think about, but probably just a waste of brain power in the end.

[Scooterfletcher]

I would think that Gasser, Myers, CRod, Henderson, Black, and Boeve all six might be close for Skenes.  Depends how good they think those pitchers are and if they think they all four could make their rotation.  

[sveumrules]

19 minutes ago, Scooterfletcher said:

I would think that Gasser, Myers, CRod, Henderson, Black, and Boeve all six might be close for Skenes.  Depends how good they think those pitchers are and if they think they all four could make their rotation.  

The Pirates aren't trading Skenes.

If they did it wouldn't be in division for three mid rotation starters, a back end starter, and two bat only prospects that haven't hit in awhile.

Any proposal that doesn't start with both Misio and Made just isn't a serious proposal.

Same goes for Jose Ramirez.

[liveforoctober]

1 hour ago, Scooterfletcher said:

I would think that Gasser, Myers, CRod, Henderson, Black, and Boeve all six might be close for Skenes.  Depends how good they think those pitchers are and if they think they all four could make their rotation.  

I hate to use the money analogy again but no team is going to give you a dollar bill for 20 nickels. They are not going to trade us the best pitcher in the National League during his affordable years and not get a single top five prospect back from us. They likely wouldn't do it without getting AT LEAST 2 of our top 5.

[TURBO]

3 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

I would think that Gasser, Myers, CRod, Henderson, Black, and Boeve all six might be close for Skenes.  Depends how good they think those pitchers are and if they think they all four could make their rotation.  

Dude, you are not even close with this offer.  You are withholding all the blue-chips that it would surely take to get Skenes, much less from a division rival.

Out of the players you listed, they'd probably have interest in Henderson, and some of the others as nothing but throw-ins.

JUST

NOT

EVEN

CLOSE!

 

[TURBO]

3 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

I would think that Gasser, Myers, CRod, Henderson, Black, and Boeve all six might be close for Skenes.  Depends how good they think those pitchers are and if they think they all four could make their rotation.  

Also, if that's what it would take, it would be done!  Just not close at all.

[Playing Catch]

A team would have to give up multiple MLB-proven players to land Skenes.

Contreras, Durbin, Frelick, Priester, Collins, Perkins, and then Henderson/Gasser?

In this hypothetical, it's possible that the Brewers could put together a package where the Pirates look at it like they could actually improve their team.

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

A team would have to give up multiple MLB-proven players to land Skenes.

Contreras, Durbin, Frelick, Priester, Collins, Perkins, and then Henderson/Gasser?

In this hypothetical, it's possible that the Brewers could put together a package where the Pirates look at it like they could actually improve their team.

Maybe not, but you certainly are starting with Made AND Pena.  

[Scooterfletcher]

47 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

Maybe not, but you certainly are starting with Made AND Pena.  

Not necessailly.   You can start with Pratt and Quero and add in Logan Henderson, DL Hall, and Tobias Myers and prob get there.  Still keeps a lot of pitching depth for us and enables us to resign one of Woody/Cortes/Quintana in all likelihood.

Hope that Dinges can arrive when Contreras departs which seems to be about the timeline for that.   Hope Ortiz performs better at SS in future until Made/Pena arrive.   Otherwise he becomes a super sub in time with Durbin at 2b and Turang SS.   Wilken, Boeve, or Adams hopefully grab 3B by the horns in this scenario eventually too.

Skenes, Peralta, Miz, Priester, Gasser rotation next year with Ashby ready if needed.   Crow,  CRod, Wichowski next prospects up.  Still looks sunny to me at all levels of the organization in this hypothetical deal.