sveumrules

Freeway used to dance up and down the aisles in the County Stadium bleachers anytime they played music, sometimes removing the black leather jacket/white tshirt combo he wore to every game in the process. Between songs he would normally sit in the nearest empty seat and start talking Brewers to whoever happened to be sitting next to him. Pretty sure he did the same thing for years at Bucks/Marquette games as well. http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/freeway/start

Definitely not as much value as a Freeway bobble would hold. The regular run would be jacket on while the limited edition would be after the jacket came off.

That is one expensive injury, probably cost him 25-30 million dollars and who knows how many bad tattoos. As much as I like Corey and don't think he really ever got his due credit for being one of the 25 or so best hitters in MLB from 2010-12 (21st in total batting runs, 27th in wRC+ over that time) I hope it is another team that gives him that prove yoursefl healthy one year deal for 2014.

Carlos Lee career SB% = 72.7% Brett Lawrie career SB% = 68.8%

"Stealing the fans money." If Braun is stealing what did Jeff Suppan, Bill Hall and Eric Gagne do? "I love his production, but its all backs, necks, obliques and thumbs with this guy." Since his first full season in 2008 Braun has played in the 12th most games and racked up the 10th most plate appearances in all of MLB and this is his first ever DL stint. If Braun needs the rest of the year to get better I say give it to him, we're not going anywhere anyway and it'll only help our 2014 draft position/cap allocation and encourage the ownership/front office to sell off pieces to hopefully speed up the necessary rebuild.

I'm not saying the Brewers minor league system is any great shakes, as it very clearly isn't, but team W-L record at the minor league level tells you nothing about the kind of prospects on that team. We could put together a team of 24/25 year old minor league veterans and win the Midwest League going away, but that wouldn't make any of them prospects.

Obviously not related to the Milwaukee Bucks as it pertains to an NBA Finals game, but did anyone see Game 6 last night? Just an exhilarating game all around. Hope San Antonio has enough left in the tank for Game 7. You think the guys on both teams are spending all day getting pumped full of HGH for the last game of the year?

A reasonable alternative to what though? WAR is the only metric I'm aware of that attempts to measure a player's total worth in a single number. Using your analogy mud is to chocolate as WAR is to...what? Also, if people really are "feeding it" to you and telling you that you "should accept it" maybe it's time to try a new restaurant?

No, of course not. Everyone knows pitcher wins, RBI and fielding percentage are the only things which can come close to replicating the divine joys of chocolate.

There are a limited number of avenues through which a player can provide value to his team. He can do this by being healthy and in the lineup, by hitting, by running the bases, by fielding and by being skilled enough to play more challenging defensive positions. Currently WAR incorporates the best metrics available in each of those respective areas to try and come up with one number, a jumping off point if you will, representative of that player's overall worth and contribution. The creators of the various WARs will readily admit that some of the inputs have a higher level of reliability than others, but again, they are the best we currently have available. They also advise against treating the results as absolutes, because they clearly are not.

There are so many great and right answers here already but I was just looking at some stats and noticed Alex Gonzalez has a 13 wRC+. THIRTEEN.

The main reason the Twins farm is better than ours is they spent big on Sano and got Buxton at #2. They'll be adding another top pick this year due to their terrible 2012 and they look well on their way to another premium pick in the 2014 draft so maybe their next wave will be ready by the end of Mauer's deal. Hopefully the losses keep piling up so we can pick 3 in 2014 since their is no way we're catching HOU or MIA.

In your first paragraph you bemoan that Roenicke is "getting so little out of what he has to work with." Then in your second paragraph you mention Gomez and Segura, two players nobody expected to be performing at the high levels they are currently performing at. If Roenicke is to blame for every player underperforming on the roster then shouldn't he likewise get credit for Gomez and Segura who have wildly exceeded any realistic preseason expectations?

Based on fangraphs baserunning stat (BsR) the Brewers are currently 24th in MLB at -3.0 runs. For perspective The Mets are first at 7.7 runs and the DBacks are last at -6.2 runs.

I'm pretty much with you in regards to the general state of the franchise, Logan. It is pretty much the nature of being the smallest market in MLB that there will be "windows" of success followed by periods where the organization needs to rebuild to create a new window. Even Oakland and Tampa Bay, who are generally considered the model small market franchises have had consolidation years recently. I still watch every game I can because I love the franchise and baseball in general, regardless of the results. I'm actually looking forward to the inevitable bottoming out caused by Mark A's attempts to extend our window if for no other reason than to see what changes eventually come about.

That's the whole thing, I don't think that outside a small handful of guys (Maddux, Cooper, Duncan) the pitching coach can really make a starter better. Who has Kranitz even had the chance to improve? In the starting rotation now you have Gallardo who I don't really think you can blame Kranitz for. He's never really been economical with his pitches and has thrown a lot (11th most in MLB since 2009) over the last few years. I'd blame his struggles on that more than anything, pitchers all eventually break. Lohse is coming from a team that traditionally has had better defense and plays in a more pitcher friendly park than us and on top of that most people think he's smoke and mirrors to begin with. He's been generally effective and received limited run support. No Kranitz blame there. Estrada has actually outperformed most people's expectations over the course of his time here, he's struggled in a small sample so far this year but if anything he would be a net positive for Kranitz in my mind. Peralta has been inconsistent this year, but he's been inconsistent his whole minor league career and is getting his first extended taste of the majors. Don't think you can really attribute his results to Kranitz. Burgos/Fiers are guys with the upside of a 4/5 starter and have pitched like 4/5 starters. I can't give credit to Kranitz for their superlative outings any more than I can blame him when they get lit up. Before this year Kranitz has had Greinke, Marcum, Wolf and Narveson who were veterans and essentially were what they were. I'd say all four of them generally performed to any reasonable expectations during their time under his tutelage. I'm not saying the guy is great, I'm not saying he is terrible. I'm saying there is no way to really know and considering what he's been given to work with the results have been in line with my expectations. Sure we could fire him, but that wouldn't do anything to fix the real problem the organization has which is identifying and developing pitching before they reach the majors.

While poor fundamentals and many outs of the bases are costing us, even combined they aren't costing us nearly as much as having the worst starting pitching staff in the National League. Sure, we could fire Roenicke for this but I don't see what it will really change necessarily.

What criteria do you use for determining pitching coach effectiveness? Leo Mazzone was considered one of the all time greats in Atlanta when he had Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, et cetera. Yet when he went to Baltimore in 2006 & 2007 and he had less talented pitchers to work with they finished 13th out of 14 teams in ERA both seasons.

The highest FIP in my arbitrary 120 player sample ended up being 3.75. The guys you mentioned LouisEly all came in between 3.79 (Hudson) and 4.32 (Zito) for the 1986-2013 timeframe, so they missed the cut by varying degrees. It ended up being about a 70/50 split of starters to relievers in the sample. I might rerun the query with a higher minimum IP (maybe around 950 since Yo is currently at 968) to ferret out some of the relievers and see how the results look.

So between this thread and a recent conversation about how Ben Sheets and Yovani Gallardo (we didn't count Higuera since he was already successful in the Mexican League when we signed him) were the only thing even remotely resembling front line starters drafted and developed by the Brewers in our lifetime, I decided to run a statistical query. I used 1986 as the starting point as my earliest baseball memories are pulling an Ernie Riles from my first ever pack of baseball cards (1986 Topps) and that years infamous Fall Classic. The only other requirement I imposed was a 550 IP minimum between then and now. I then sorted the results by FIP. While determining which organizations are the best at drafting and developing pitching talent is a huge undertaking I figured this relatively quick and dirty methodology could give a good starting point. Using this criteria Yo and Benny came in at 89th (3.64) and 96th (3.66) respectively. The 550 IP minimum puts a lot of relievers who had long careers into the mix, which I think is appropriate given many relievers are drafted high as starters and converted to (or developed into) relievers for one reason or another along the way. As for sorting by FIP, while there is no single metric perfect for evaluating pitching, I feel it best encapsulates what teams are looking for when drafting pitchers; guys who can get strikeouts while limiting walks and home runs. Given the limits on my query this list also includes a fair number of players who finished their careers in the late 1980's and as such were drafted in the early 1970's. While these players don't necessarily tell us anything about the state of things in 2013 and moving forward, it is interesting to note that some franchises who are generally considered to be as pitching poor as the Brewers have had periods where they were actually quite successful in developing pitchers. For the purposes of the list I decided to split credit for some pitchers as while they were drafted by one organization they were "developed" by another. This is obviously very arbitrary, but an easy example is Johan Santana. In my methodology the Astros get credit for drafting him while the Twins get credit for "developing" him. Here are the full results with the number after the team abbreviation representing their total players in the sample and the number after each players name representing their overall rank on the FIP list. I was going to stop after Sheeter at 96 but ran it out to 120 to get a slightly bigger sample... LAD (11) : Pedro Martinez (8), Clayton Kershaw (10), John Wetteland (22), Alejandro Pena (30), John Franco (54), Sid Fernandez (69), Eric Gagne (75), Hiroki Kuroda (77), Chad Billingsley (97), Darren Holmes (115), Jeff Nelson (116). 11 drafted, 0 developed, 5 starters, 6 relievers. NYM (9) : Nolan Ryan (6), Heath Bell (11), Mike Scott (20), Randy Myers (35), Terry Leach (58) Sid Fernandez (69), Dwight Gooden (82), Rick Aguilera (93), Octavio Dotel (106). 7 drafted, 2 developed, 4 starters, 5 relievers. MON (9) : Pedro Martinez (8), Randy Johnson (21), John Wetteland (22), Tim Burke (50), Cliff Lee (65), Bryn Smith (70), Norm Charlton (81), Ugueth Urbina (104), Jeff Parrett (118). 4 drafted, 5 developed, 3 starters, 6 relievers. KCR (8) : Bret Saberhagen (33), Zack Greinke (49), Steve Farr (67), David Cone (71), Jeff Montgomery (76), Charlie Leibrandt (83), Mark Gubicza (92), Tom Gordon (109). 5 drafted, 3 developed, 5 starters, 3 relievers. ATL (8) : Duane Ward (5), Adam Wainwright (24), John Smoltz (27), Greg Maddux (31), Paul Assenmacher (34), Mark Wohlers (53), Terry Leach (58), Zane Smith (78). 6 drafted, 2 deveoped, 4 starters, 4 relievers. SFG (8) : Tim Lincecum (19), Madison Bumgarner (23), Joe Nathan (42), Scott Garrelts (79), Jeff Robinson (107), Matt Cain (108), Francisco Liriano (110), Keith Foulke (111). 8 drafted, 0 developed, 4 starters, 4 relievers. PIT (8) : Randy Tomlin (45), John Candelaria (47), Tim Burke (50), Steve Farr (67), Rick Honeycutt (73), Don Robinson (100), John Smiley (102), Jose Deleon (112). 8 drafted, 0 developed, 4 starters, 4 relievers. CIN (8) : Trevor Hoffman (15), Jose Rijo (29), John Franco (54), Rob Murphy (56), Jeff Montgomery (76), Norm Charlton (81), Charlie Leibrandt (83), Ron Robinson (85). 5 drafted, 3 developed, 2 starters, 6 relievers. STL (7) : Adam Wainwright (24), Jaime Garcia (40), Todd Worrell (43), John Tudor (86), Bob Tewksbury (94), Dan Haren (95), Jose Deleon (112). 3 drafted, 4 developed, 6 starters, 1 reliever. BOS (7) : Rafael Betancourt (12), Roger Clemens (17), Curt Schilling (25), Bruce Hurst (62), Bobby Ojeda (66), John Tudor (86), Jon Lester (105). 7 drafted, 0 developed, 6 starters, 1 reliever. HOU (7) : Billy Wagner (3), Mike Scott (20), Brad Lidge (32), Roy Oswalt (38), Johan Santana (46), Shane Reynolds (103), Octavio Dotel (106). 5 drafted, 2 developed, 4 starters, 3 relievers. DET (6) : John Smoltz (27), Justin Verlander (39), Mike Henneman (48), Doug Fister (51), Francisco Cordero (84), Max Scherzer (91). 4 drafted, 2 developed, 4 starters, 2 relievers. MIL (6) : Doug Jones (16), Teddy Higuera (49), Dan Plesac (52), Yovani Gallardo (89), Ben Sheets (96), Jeff Parrett (118). 6 drafted, 0 developed, 3 starters, 3 relievers. CLE (6) : Larry Andersen (1), Dennis Eckersley (7), Rafael Betancourt (12), Doug Jones (16), CC Sabathia (59), Cliff Lee (65). 3 drafted, 3 developed, 2 starters, 4 relievers. CHC (5) : Lee Smith (14), Greg Maddux (31), Mark Prior (41), Rick Reuschel (61), Dennis Lamp (68). 5 drafted, 0 developed, 3 starters, 2 relievers. SD (5) : Heath Bell (11), Trevor Hoffman (15), Mat Latos (55), Jake Peavy (60), Bob Patterson (113). 3 drafted, 2 developed, 2 starters, 3 relievers. SEA (4) : Randy Johnson (21), Felix Hernandez (28), Doug Fister (51), Erik Hanson (88). 3 drafted, 1 developed, 4 starters, 0 relievers. NYY (4) : Mariano Rivera (4), Jose Rijo (29), Bob Tewksbury (94), Andy Pettite (120). 4 drafted, 0 developed, 3 starters, 1 reliever. FLA (4) : Rob Nenn (9), Josh Johnson (26), Anibal Sanchez (98), Josh Beckett (117). 3 drafted, 1 developed, 3 starters, 1 reliever. MIN (4) : Johan Santana (46), Frank Viola (80), Rick Aguilera (93), Francisco Liriano (110). 1 drafted, 3 developed, 3 starters, 1 reliever. PHI (4) : Larry Andersen (1), Curt Schilling (25), Cole Hamels (87), Ryan Madson (101). 2 drafted, 2 developed, 2 starters, 2 relievers. BAL (4) : Bryn Smith (70), Mike Mussina (72), Gregg Olson (99), Dennis Martinez (114). 4 drafted, 0 developed, 2 starters, 2 relievers. OAK (4) : Dennis Eckersley (7), Rick Honeycutt (73), Dan Haren (95), Gio Gonzalez (119). 4 developed, 0 drafted, 2 starters, 2 relievers. TOR (4) : Tom Henke (2), Duane Ward (5), Mark Eichorn (18), Roy Halladay (37). 2 drafted, 2 developed, 1 starter, 3 relievers. TEX (4) : Tom Henke (2), Rob Nenn (9), Kevin Brown (36), Francisco Cordero (84). 3 drafted, 1 developed, 1 starter, 3 relievers. ARI (3) : Brandon Webb (57), Jose Valverde (64), Max Scherzer (91). 3 drafted, 0 developed, 2 starters, 1 reliever. LAA (3) : Francisco Rodriguez (13), Scot Shields (74), Jered Weaver (99). 3 drafted, 0 developed, 1 starter, 2 relievers. CHW (2) : Keith Foulke (111), Gio Gonzalez (119). 1 drafted, 1 developed, 1 starter, 1 reliever. TB (1) : David Price (63). 1 drafted, 0 developed, 1 starter, 0 relievers. COL (0) : Nobody. 0 drafted, 0 developed, 0 starters, 0 relievers.a

That's nothing JohnBriggs12, he had an OPS of 2.000 and scored every time he reached base with the Brewers in 2009.

Career minor league OBP/SLG Jeff Bianchi 340/411 Scooter Gennett 341/414 Throw in the fact that Bianchi is both better defensively and offers more positional flexibility and I'd have to imagine he is a notch above Scooter on the organizational depth chart currently.

Last time we beat the Cardinals it started a 9 game winning streak. Let's do that again.

I'm really hoping for a Roenicke bobble in 2014 just for turborickey's reaction.

As long as Kohl/Hammond are calling the shots I don't think the coach really matters too much either. Maybe a different coach would have recognized that Tobias Harris was the youngest player on the team and had considerable upside and in turn gave him some consistent minutes, but would that have stopped Hammond from trading him for a 3rd guard who was so essential to our quest for the 8 seed that he got a total of 68 minutes in 4 meaningless playoff games? Probably not.