BrewerFan

Sure...or they're just more set at those positions and they need the 40-man roster spot more. He was just at the AZF League for everyone to see, so I'll trust the Brewers scouts. I doubt they're expecting his breakout to translate into a 1st division starter, but perhaps a versatile utility player with some pop. That'd be plenty for me.

Sure...seems like we've got a log jam of SS/2B prospects in A and HiA and Pratt, Bitonti just add to that. Guilarte, Areinamo, O'Rae, Brown Jr(AA probably), and then Ereu, Baez and Di Turi. I get there's some 3B in there and again, Brown is likely ticketed for AA along with Adams. Just looking at Dunn's numbers don't inspire a ton of confidence. Guys who break out at 25...meh, but the Brewers have earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to player evaluation. Not sure this is the strongest argument😅 But it's good enough for this particular trade. (Just kills me to think about all that money we're wasting in LA when we could be adding a MRP in Free Agency!)

I'm not sure how much stock to put into these analytics for a 2nd year WRer given ALL the other things that play into them. Love's accuracy, he has to get the ball to him on time, the OL, and the WRers in this offense aren't making the right reads. I remember Benkert showing a team(IIRC the Raiders) playing Cover4 and all 4 Packers receivers were running deeper routes, but you paused it, and as they were ~10 yards downfield, the DBs were still back-peddling, all 4 yards at least from a Packers WRer and nobody broke off their route while Love's in the backfield under pressure. Just a simple dig there would have been an easy completion and is supposed to be an option for the WRers if you're facing that type of umbrella coverage, but nobody made that read. So it's every possible issue you could have. It feels like pretty much everyone's going to have really poor grades save for...Musgrave and Tom. Football is so dependent on the other 10 guys...unless you're doing a PFF play-by-play grading(even those tend to be flawed as Love and Fields each got a negative grade in Week 1 where Fields fumbled and lost it while Love fumbled, picked it up and throw a 50-yard completion to Musgrave). But Doubs seems to ME like he should be the James Jones of this group. He should be the reliable #3 option(maybe 4th) and really excel in that role. We just don't know what Reed, Wicks, Watson...Heath(I like him quite a bit)...who knows what any of them are? Watson is a massively talented player who seems constantly injured, but also very raw. Reed has been impressive. I think he's a #2. Despite my undying love for the Fighting Irish' left Tackle, Harrison Jr would be so hard to pass up. I don't think that's a decision they'll have to make though.

Yeah, when we went from Favre(the team he said was the most talented group he'd ever had) and then Rodgers. I'd guess '07, '08, in that era. But again, even then you had vets like Henderson, Driver, Tauscher, Clifton...etc...

Corum is rated 111th and generally viewed as a 4th because...for no good reason he went back for another year of wear and tear at Michigan and he's not a guy you want to sign to an extension. He's got a lot of mileage...and I guess he's smaller. But he's thick, he is so similar to Jones in terms of patience, finding the holes, not looking to bounce everything, but he's capable of doing so and while they call him a "smaller back," why is a 6' 220 pound back considered a power back, but a 5'8 212 pound back not? He's more hard to bring down. I'm a huge fan of Emanuel Wilson. He's so quick and despite the limited carries, he's so patient. And he's a big, physical runner. I think he's going to be a 1,000 yard rusher(and better than Dillon right now). Curtis Samuel is a guy I've beaten the drums for when MLF came(whenever he was a FA last so probably after Tyler Ervin). I thought he'd be ideal as a RB/WRer hybrid. Been better at WRer than I expected, not used as much out of the backfield. That's where I LOVE that Corley. He's a RB who plays WRer. Another option as a FA, is Antonio Gibson. I think he costs 3/15 maybe. Criminally underused in Washington(the best run team in the league). With regard to Evans, is he worth 20M a year? That and more. He should probably get a deal close to Gary's with more GTD money from a team that wants to/can compete next year. I could see the Cards, with ALL their draft equity, picking up Harrison Jr, they're in a perfect spot to pick the 3rd best OT(which varies greatly) and then they can grab Henderson or whomever they like in the 2nd, then focus on the defense. That is the type of team that I think should sign Evans. I'd prefer we take another year, let Bakh, Clark, the dead cap expire, and then go into '25 with ~120M. I'd trade Jones, Smith...even Campbell depending on the draft equity. I'm thinking you could get a 5th, 7th and if Campbell comes back and plays well and someone who needs a MLBer(like Buffalo) is interested in a 4th. I know that's a bit counterintuitive to the veteran presence we need, but I'm talking about at WRer, not just anywhere. Van Jefferson isn't meant to be a #1 or #2 or really anymore than a depth piece, but he's a good leader and he's played in the system before. I do think these guys should figure it out with another year, but I think he'd help. Now in 2025 after you've had Alt, hopefully another OT such as Mims/Fuaga on the OL(though I realize that's my pipe dream and we'll likely just keep Tom there), you add a guy like Bucky Irvin(he's a 2nd/3rd with his speed); Black Corum, a big blocking TE(Jalin Conyers late on day 3 would be great)...and you have given Love all he needs and you get a more clear picture of what he is. At THAT point, you also have a better idea of what FA needs you have, if you need to pay Love or move off of him. If you are going to step into FA, there are a couple positions I'd look at. Safeties. Budda Baker is a FA I believe, Kyle Dugger, a 6'2 versatile safety(I'm always skeptical of guys who thrive under Belichick), Antonio Winfield, Jeremy Chinn and Xavier McKinney are two guys who've lost a lot of value and could be good fits in very different ways. So that's a wide range from a massive FA contract for a safety, which tend to be underpaid, but Baker is the type of leader you always want, same with Winfield, but he's more of a coverage guy and just a tough, undersized player JUST like his Dad. Chinn is more of a SS, though he lost his starting job, we've seen glimpses and McKinney was really on the ascent before the Giants hired Wink. We'd need to have the right DC to use him and play to his strengths. WRer-Evans is going to have his...10th straight 1000 yard season. He's a HOFer, he's a jump ball machine. But he feels like he's off our time frame and you're going to be spending all your FA money or most of it on a guy who's going to be 31 next year. Tee Higgins is a FA who's likely not re-signing with Cincy as they set records on Burrow and ***Also, Wirfs is a FA...and while Tampa is almost certainly going to aggressively try and sign him, he had void years, so they can't tag him, he's a guy I'd break the bank for...but again, why would TB let him go. The only other FA is Christian Wilkens. You could sign him to the 4/90 million deal you'd give to Clark, but he has 4 fewer years in the NFL and I think fits the scheme a bit better. So Connor Williams or Van Jefferson for relatively cheap(though Williams would be a huge upgrade at C). A number of safeties who are paid almost like RBs in a draft class with good safeties. Think I'd rather sign one than use the 40th pick on a question mark(even if Nubin is a really nice player). Long shots-Tee, Evans REAL long shots-Wilkins(though Miami is so far over the cap...that's possible). As likely to become FAs as Gary is to be traded this off-season, Wirfs. But again, I want to see this offense with another year before spending a bunch on players to push us over the top when Love MAY be our anchor. I don't know or think he is, but...he could be. So '25 would be a better target IMO).

Just going off the opening day roster, they were 21st last year, and 15th the year before. https://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2022-edition/ But even that is skewed. We're talking about our offense. We have the youngest offense in HISTORY(per Bill Barnwell). We've had young rosters before, I'd guess the last time it was #1 would be the early Rodgers days, but we still had Driver, Pickett, Woodson...Rodgers was the man, Nick Collins, good leadership. But you don't need to work as a unit nearly as much on defense as you do on offense. Your OL has to pass off stunts, your WRer needs to break at exactly the right time as the WRer is breaking out of his cut AS the ball is being thrown....so it should be there when he's looking the opposite way. This is NOT a feature of the system, this is absolutely a bug. Edit-Article about Packers youth; And I wasn't screaming for a veteran WRer (just the opposite). I was good with Marcedes Lewis to help in pass pro, but...in retrospect, it may have helped. Even Cobb to be honest. https://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2022-edition/

If Love holds it for another split second, I think Love can get the ball to Reed who's gotten loose to the pylon. I think the plan was for Watson to run a dig there and try and find a crease where he can fight his way into the endzone...I guess. But I don't know what Watson is running and if the WRer doesn't do what the QB expects, it looks even worse.

He's FAR more athletic than MVS. More versatile and dynamic. But he ran fewer routes than anyone drafted from OSU or Alabama( in the last couple years from HS to College). I don't think this is a Davante like situation where he breaks out in year 3 and become a true #1, but I think he's more than just a deep threat.

With this same exact group of receivers? Even then I think the 4 winnable games they lost, we win with Rodgers. But we're no closer to the SB and...still have a litany of future issues(including massive cap issues we would have to cross over the next 2 years...also, no Reed...or is it Musgrave. One of the two.

I believe we're 6/40 and 48 after the weekend for what it's worth. That win vs the Rams killed us! Only half kidding. I agree...mostly. You can see the talent on this team, I KNOW Jordan Love has the physical talent to be an All Pro. I also know Trey Lance does, so that's just one component. That throw to Watson that was picked, didn't HATE that. The last play...what in the hell are the WRers doing. Reed was actually breaking for the pylon and got free just as Love is letting it go, but what's the move there? Watson crosses in front of the DBs face? Still, saw some big time throws, some drops, some misses. As for the draft- I could not be more on board with Alt. I've watched almost every ND game this year and Alt reminds me of Tyron Smith. He just moves so effortlessly in both pass pro and run blocking. He's pretty nasty and he's faced a few guys who are projected to go high in the draft and he completely stones them. I actually think their RT will be a star in the NFL as well. Henderson and Nubin are nice players, but I don't think one OL is enough. Not with JRJ and Yosh both set to be FAs and...I'd guess both get 7-8M AAV. The thing that stands out watching someone like Mike Wahle or Kurt Benkert go through the All-22 breakdown or just watching it...how often we're just sooo close to a big play, but there's one mistake. I don't disagree with your analysis of needs, but I think rather than just going OT, S, RB, we should focus our attention on the OL and put off the other needs as they're easier to fill. Go all in on the OL, give Love one more year(a vet wide receiver makes a lot of sense...Evans is probably gonna cost 20M a year or more, so not sure about him, BUT Van Jefferson from the Rams, someone who's spent time in this system, wouldn't take a lot of snaps, but would be a very steady vet, I'd be all on board with that or Curtis Samuel, a Deebo type RB/WRer hybrid almost), but SOME vet absolutely makes sense...and this is probably naive, but man, I'd LOVE to get Donald Driver on this teams staff to work with the WRers. I don't know if he's interested in coaching, but...that'd be great to see all around move. But what I'd do(for the 20th time) is use the 1st and 2nd rds on the OL. Just the type of depth that's available, that's rare. IF you think Mims is a Pro-Bowl RT or in this hypothetical, Fuaga fell to #22 and I could take 2 2nds to move up after adding a 2nd moving down one spot),..either way, take your 2nd rd picks and move back up for another OT and your set. Blake Corum, the RB from Kentucky, Davis, Brooks from UT, lots of really good, versatile backs on day 3 or late on day 2. Blake Watson is a guy who's not as agile as Antonio Gibson, but has a similar skill set. I was a fan of Gibson when he came out...but figured there's no way we'd draft a back that high(we got Dillon). I'll also add we don't need one guy who come in and wears down the defense. Maybe Braelon Allen is there in the 4th and that's a steal, but I'd rather have 3 guys with great vision, and quickness and who run that outside zone well than one smaller back and then the old "change of pace." Just using the NFL mock draft simulator, this is what I'd love; It's just a silly little mock. Alt and Fashanu were on the board, the Rams moved up and added a 2nd, I traded down from that...all that is a bit beside the point. This gives you a Joe Thomas-like LT, a mauling and vastly underrated RT(who could play LT). Frees Tom up to play C. Alt+Fuaga is a dream. Not as sexy as Harrison Jr, but...every big as effective. Corley is a RB who plays WRer. We could use him like SF uses Deebo. Williams is a 6'5 220LB safety who and covers ground(a bit redundant with Hicks). Mondon and Bell are two guys who are just ideal fits. Bell replaces Degura and is what we hoped he'd be. He's a 6'3 Delanie Walker-type H-Back. Not the blocker, but he's a willing blocker. Mondon is a 5 star recruit who filled in for Walker and jumps off the screen when you watch UGAs defense. Maybe use him as a 3rd LBer for a year before you move offf Campbell. He'd be a STs ace(I think he'll end up a 2nd after running in the 4.4-4.5 range at 6'3 230, but as of now, he's a mid 4th. Corum reminds me of Jones. He's had a torn ACL and he's gotten beaten up, but he's a really good back. ----BUT the takeaway is get two OTs first. I get we(fans) generally don't like trading up, but I think it's worth it in this case. After the first two picks, you could argue for 50 guys and these rankings are going to shuffle dramatically. But if you can really fix 3 OL spots for the next decade, do it. Next year the WRers grow a bit, you assume the chemistry improves. Etiher Love makes a big jump...or he doesn't. If he doesn't, you go up and get Drew Allar when the draft is in Lambeau in '25. If he does improve, then you should be competitive by then.

Yeah, but we're not the youngest or among the youngest every year. Particularly among offensive personnel where continuity is the most important. We're younger on offense than...I can ever remember this team being. 2 players on our 3 deep who are not on rookie deals. Aaron Jones and Jenkins(year 1 of his extension). That's absolutely a bug and NOT a feature.

🤣😅😂 Michael Lorenzen went for the 5th and 20th prospect in the Phillies' very solid farm system, but Corbin Burnes won't go for a team's own top 10 prospects!!! Right. I don't like speaking in absolutes...but I am absolutely positive than barring some industrial accident in which Burnes right arm gets injured over the next couple months, juuust about every team(if not literally every team) is going to offer multiple of their own top 10 prospects for Burnes. We just saw a trade deadline in which fringe starters were traded for players ranked in the top 10 of good farm systems. I'd like to see the disappointing returns, but I don't think they'll actually come. HiA is kinda the sweet spot for starting pitching. AA and they're a call away. Brock Porter type arms. The Rangers and Phills were two teams I thought would be the best fits. Teams that had spent big recently...had come close, but failed to get over the top. The Rangers are not in that group any longer, and they should hope to have deGrom back, so maybe they're not as interested(or maybe repeating makes them just as interested, who can say). But both teams have pitchers who are are a year or two away, who have top-of-the-rotation stuff. The Dodgers make a lot of sense, but they self-scout so well and they don't ever seem to panic, so I don't know if that's the best possible deal.

Yes. He had THREE years of team control. That's the future. You're doing your own math to argue otherwise, but no, if you are "really optimistic," you're better than "maybe .500 ish," in 2025. You created this strawman based on your estimation of our chances and then came up with this supposition that we're holding Peralta for 2 years(which we apparently can't compete during) in the hopes you can "ride him to FA trying to compete in 2026? We'll be trying to compete in '24 and '25. It's an incredibly bad faith argument to frame it in your own lens and then argue vs that particular lens.

I think he'll get more than Yelich has and I think he'll be longer. 7/180, MAYBE 8/210. And I think it'll be awful. Jason Heyward bad. So good defensively, maybe some occasional flashes, but generally a poor deal.

He's worked there during camp and pre-season, but no, not a ton of snaps. But I think it's something you should at least take a look at before he hits Free Agency. I don't really see the downside. Myers is a very below-average Center. Maybe Runyan is a better C, or maybe he's not. You're probably(almost definitely) not going anywhere this year despite being just a game out of the last playoff spot. So shuffle the deck a bit, see if you can find something that may work better for next year. Most likely you let Runyan and Yosh walk in free agency, but maybe he excels at Center like Connor Williams who turned into a better Center than a Guard.

That'd certainly be going all in for the Os. Then we can sign both Chourio and Holliday for 10/150M extensions right away...re-create the '82 Brewers of Young/Molitor. That'd be fun, right! I'm guessing Baltimore probably doesn't consider that trade for very long, but it'd certainly be fun #3/4 combo in the future with Chourio and Holliday at SS/CF! Burnes+Williams+Adames is an overpay...per the MLB trade value site(which is another reason why that doesn't need to be consulted). Just an aside, has any team ever had two prospects the caliber of Chourio and Holliday on the same team in the same minor league system?

It seems similar to the Goldschmidt trade suggestion. I guess it'd depend on how highly you viewed Baty and if Cohen is going to push to re-sign Alanso, a NY favorite, but a significant amount of the value in a return would be a power-hitting 1B who's a rental in a year where we'd be without Woody and trading Burnes. I think we should be focused on getting young pitching back. The Phillies could be a team who are pretty desperate. They've been close, they have some massive investments, Nola is a FA. Burnes+Williams and see if we can pry Painter and a couple lower level arms away. That'd be ideal. From Phillies viewpoint, that may be a guy they're not willing to give up, so then Abel could become the center piece. Adames, unless he's valued as a 4-5 WAR player, I think the deadline makes more sense. But I'm just not as excited about looking for help in 2024. It's not gonna be like the Packers this year(I don't think). But I also don't really think we'll be a contender, so I'd really just be looking for people who could help us over the next 5-7 years and particularly on the mound. I think looking to "fix," the lineup is looking back and the next 5-6 years, our offense looks like it's set up pretty good.

Bitonti is likely going to end up at 3B, but that's largely an assumption due to his size at this point. I think Devanney has proven he can play SS. Not that he projects to be a big-time power hitter, but as you said, Pratt does. Baez is...not a SS from EVERY account and the fact that Clancy compared it to the "mistake" we made by moving Braun off 3B is telling.

Loki is good. There's a show on Prime, "Sprung," that's funny and kinda clever. It's the Mom and Dad from a show called "Raising Hope," that was on a while back. Watched it sporadically, but that show was funny. They have a very different dynamic in this one, but the story is they all get out of Prison due to Covid and being non-violent offenders and are trapped together and the "Good guy," is kinda roped into being the mastermind of these smaller heists. Funny and surprising show.

I think we're mostly passed this. It's not even about where he WANTS to sign IMO, we don't have the money to sign him without having a grossly imbalanced payroll with 2 players comprising...~35%+ of it. 22 for Yelich, I'd guess Burnes is in line to get 35. That'd be 57. We just had a payroll of ~138. That's over 40%. So even if he wanted to, it's unlikely this close to FA, we'd get him signed now or next year. We should be looking at it as 1 year of Burnes and then the QO, or whatever we can get for him in a trade. Just the realities of being in this market.

I don't know how this is confusing. YOU used the Cy Young as the barometer for what an ace. I pointed out he finished 6th and 7th the two other years(no voting this year). It's pretty straightforward. If you have "no idea what I'm talking about," I don't know how to go any further. The issue is how he's perceived though. He's perceived as an ace. You can find a dozen+ articles, that refer to him as an ace, 3rd in WAR the past 3 seasons, and led the league in WHIP. NOT being quite as good as he was when he was the most dominant pitcher in the league doesn't mean he's not an ace. Yeah, I don't think we will to put it even more simply. The Names being thrown around for Burnes now aren't disappointed and those are coming from numerous other sites. A top ~50, top ~100 and a 3rd prospect. That's what most people on here seem to expect as well as most of the proposals I've seen.

Yes, MLB.com mentioned the O's. Cowser(14th ranked prospect at the end of last year), Westburg(~70s) and a AAA starter with a ERA of ~5, but a ton of strikeouts. There have been a lot and all seem to reflect the opinion that Burnes is an ace.

Really? How do you win a Cy Young? Via...VOTING if I'm not mistaken. That's you...quite literally using Cy Young voting to set what the perception of Burnes was. So no, I was not the "only one," who used Cy Young voting, I was using your barometer. But fine, over the last two years, he's been either the 5th or the 12th most valuable pitcher in Baseball and he's 29 with a Cy Young. I'm pretty sure he'll still be viewed as an ace. Do you want to use War now? Whatever we use, lets make sure the target isn't moving and dodging as it makes it rather difficult to hit that target. I've seen maybe a dozen articles about Corbin Burnes being traded. Different team sites, SI, the Athletic, every single one of them refers to him as an Ace. He's 3rd in fWAR the last 3 seasons, he's been in the top 7 in voting the last 3 seasons...he didn't have a career year this year and now you don't think he's an ace. Disagree. Even Aces see some variation in their performance. IIRC, both Greinke and Sabathia had either subpar seasons for their standards either the year before we traded for them, or in Sabathia's case, the almost 20 starts the year we traded for him. I don't recall people saying, "well, he's a #1 more than an ace."

Ok...so you cited the Cy Young award, but using where he finishes in the voting is a..."poor definition?" Top 5=ace. So then when he was 6th and 7th, he wasn't an ace. You see how that's just incredibly vague and difficult to quantify?

The way Love plays vs a poor pass rush, or when we block well(I think the Rams are still pretty poor despite having Donald) just reinforces how much we need to improve the OL. He gets confidence and he starts to trust the receivers and his accuracy suddenly looks good. Valentine looks like a huge steal already. I don't know when/if Stokes will be back to build off his rookie year, but I like the future of that position with Jaire and Valentine. Rhyan... I don't know what we're missing. It has to be his pass protection vs quicker athletes or maybe he struggles with stunts? I'd like to see them try JRJ at Center and Rhyan at RG, but I'm not overly optimistic.