BrewerFan

I think you were conservative if anything. You're not just getting a young star edge who's on the verge of being a superstar, you're paying him... pretty much the league minimum for the next 2 years. The Packers underpaid for Parsons and I think the Rams got a fair deal. They gave up a lot. I don't think they needed to give up Verse when they had Young and Fiske on that DL which is why they were trying so hard to not trade him. And Verse will cost the Browns 4M the next two years. For what it's worth, here's an article trying to approximate Verse's value. A 1st+2nd according to Barnwell. https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/trying-define-jared-verse-trade-195236900.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall He goes to a team with a pretty good front along with him, so he'll likely continue to get opportunities. I think this is a trade that's just really good for both teams. I think the Browns did better to get good equal value than the Cowboys did.

Verse had 188 pressures his first two years and 45 QB hits. It was a few years ago, but generally for every 2 QB hits, you got 1 sack(more like 2.2). I doesn't know if that number's changed, but Verse is a stud. I also think the Eagles got a good deal on Greenard. But you look at 5 years ago, I don't think it was that different. That was right when the Rams were doing the same thing they're doing now... but now instead of giving up 2 1sts for a guy like Ramsey, they got Myles Garrett, the closest approximation of a Eagles Reggie White I've seen(Watt was pretty close as well, but Garrett and White had better speed).

I think they have two priorities yet in Wyatt and Kraft, but... this was a great first step. Watson had... what, 5.5M left on his deal? So you really have him locked up as long as you want without a real cumbersome cap hit. He'll have ~37M guaranteed total? Last years extension coming off the ACL saved us a good chunk of money I think. At least GTD money.

I've been asking that! It makes no sense. Why wait until after you lose a star to injuries. Get all your core players in there. It can't be too expensive. I'm sure they're not going to be able to spend as much time working with everyone, but... if you know that one leg being 19% stronger causes Hamstring issues, whatever it is... what could stop them from sending everyone?

They said he'd be in the lineup tonight. I don't know, reading about it and seeing it, it sounded worse reading about it. He was kinda walking off the field with two people on either side of him with their hands under his arms but... not like carrying him off as the article inferred. He dry heaves a few times and... that's it. And then I see he'll be back in the lineup today. But they also said this was similar to last time. I don't have an MD in front of my name, so I won't question it. This kinda just looked like a guy who had a little bug and then he exerted himself. But... given he passed out and missed 3-4 weeks and they found nothing, it just seems a little more scary with that layer.

I just watched an updated BA report on the Brewers farm system, they said Pena was hitting .514 vs off-speed stuff.

They need to send Pena to a specialist or... something(I'm guessing they don't need me for that little gem though). It's obviously not normal for a kid like that to just pass out in the dugout, then get a hit, steal a bag, then double over when he goes back out to the field. I hope this is something minor. It just seems... odd. I'm sure they've monitored his hydration and diet and everything since he came back.

DL Hall could go down for a while, though... he's still performed pretty well. I'd also send Ortiz down to AAA as he still has two options left. Let him get regular ABs there. I know I'm probably the last one, but he was a good hitter for us two years ago(good enough with his defense) and he hit on his way up. I don't believe he's this bad. I also don't believe Rengifo is this bad, but... Jett Williams is hot in Nashville, so he's got about a week to make an argument. The only thing I'd change is Luis Lara. He's ready. And I'd probably send Sproat down for a month or so. He may very well crank it up out of the pen where I'm sure he could sit in the 97-98 range more, but his stuff isn't the problem. It's his control. Being that I like his upside more than Hall, I'd prefer he get sent down. Though, you could send both down, call up Yoho. The area I'd like to see the Brewers add would be the backend of the pen. Uribe and Megill have recovered, been very good, Ashby is great, but I'd still prefer one more power righty in there(though I'd take a Chapman for a reasonable price). You have a bunch of lefties. Maybe Sproat does end up filling that role, but his command would have to improve. A LOT of teams have guys I feel like the Brewers could work with. So my moves Jett Williams 3B->Rengifo DFA Pratt to SS->Ortiz to Nashville Luis Lara to CF->Perkins DFA (Brewers think he's a GG defender there and he's a switch hitter). Garrett Mitchell- I don't know, he could be your 4th OFer or you could look to trade him. I said if he had a good year and stayed healthy, I'd definitely trade him on the off-season. Don't need to rush to do that, but his defense hasn't been as good, I don't love Chourio in CF(he's good, just not elite). I think Lara is ready. Woodruff+Henderson->Sproat and Hall down to Nashville for the near term future. Lockridge- I don't think people will agree, but I thought there was a little bit of fools gold there. His underlying metrics haven't been very good. His BABIP is like... .420, very low exit velo, doesn't have great defense. It's good in LF... I don't think he's a great in CF. But, he's still hitting well, not much power, but if you get on base and have speed, it's hard to complain too much.

I think you're grossly understating what Lara is as a prospect. You want an OFer in his range, Cedric Mullins. Kirby Puckett wasn't exactly Wemby. He's a prototypical leadoff hitter, more BB than Ks, he's got great speed... and he's hitting for power this year. He won't be a 30 HR a year hitter, but he can hit for power. I also don't get this "we don't even know if he can hit MLB pitching." Yeah... you never know. We don't know anything about the future. We don't know Skubal will be able to stay healthy. You follow the best The Brewers have specifically said they think he's a future Gold Glover in CF... which is BIG statement for an organization to make, and he's hitting .345/.452/.510 in a Nashville park that's tough to hit in. I don't care if he's 5'7 or 6'2, if the guy can get on base, has great defense, speed and can give you 10-15 HRs... which I think Lara easily can, that's going to easily be a 3 WAR, maybe a 4-5 WAR player. Mookie Betts isn't towering over people at 5'9. If he was a pitcher... it'd be a bit more disconcerting, but I don't care from a CFer. I also disagree there are a number of arms like Letson's in our system. I think he's our clear #1 pitching prospect. At least until Knoth can get back and even then, it's the big extension, riding FB profile vs the high spin rate of Knoth. Letson is outside the top 100(though that could change pretty quickly) but I really think you're underselling our 3 of our top 10 prospects in Williams, Lara and Letson at the moment. That's from the top system in Baseball... and two guys who are about a week away from likely being called up and who should both contribute and upgrade this team right away. And I don't know who the bat that's being traded is worth a big haul. Yordan Alvarez? I don't know where you play him, but he's a superstar... a top 3 hitter. And he'll cost you a kings ransom. Maybe check out BA podcast on the Brewers system. I believe they said if you took guys in their 15-30 range, they'd be top 5 in some other systems. The three they mentioned was Luke Adams, Bishop Letson and... I believe it was Blake Burke and they'd be 3,4,5 on the Rockies(may be wrong on Burke). They also debated the Pirates vs Brewers as the top farm system, but said if you took out Made and Griffin and went over #2-#30, it's easily the Brewers. I've seen others who've said the Brewers system is "lapping the field," much like the Baltimore system was 4-5 years ago when you had Ruschman, Gunnar Henderson, Grayson Rodriguez, Westburg, etc... just PART of the reason why I look at our system with Jett at #3, Lara at #5 and Letson at #6 and believe that's... a massive price for a rental. As always though, if we did get Skubal, I'd be excited and get over it quickly and look forward to the rest of this season.

You're assuming we'd wait and then have to match or beat the Giants. We wanted to re-sign Willy and they had some talks in '23 about extending him and then before '24. The last one where they said they made a 9 figure offer was probably not competitive, but... it also wouldn't have to have been what the Giants did. They could have extended him before the last year. And not to make too many arguments at once, but... 7 years 175 was a pretty conservative estimate for Willy. I don't see 7 182.5 being crazy. It's Dansby Swanson a couple years later(and the Giants who couldn't find anyone who wanted to sign there no matter how much money was thrown at them). Anyway, I just think you're underestimating the value Willy had to the Brewers his last year and the chances the Brewers work something out IF they have a 200M payroll... but we agree that less than 2 years in with Made and Pena busting onto the scene and Pratt, now Jett, we'd be regretting it.

I agree with @nate82 that the Browns definitely did better. Verse is a really good player. 18 QB hits as a rookie, 28 last year and 188 pressures the last two years, the most of any edge their first two seasons(at least per PFF). That Rams pick though, when you add McDuffie and Watson in addition to Garrett, that's going to be a very late 1st rd pick. Probably the favorite to be the #32 pick next year. I think as a Packers fan, I'd take Parsons at the time only because he's 4 years younger, but Garrett is so good, he'll probably be an elite player for 3-4 more years and good enough to completely change the Rams defense. Parsons pretty much did that for the Packers. Garrett is better.

I agree that if you had a preference, more revenue sharing and a floor would be preferable. I don't think you were ever "unreasonable," I just disagreed that you stop seeing innovation if you had revenue sharing and a salary cap. The Dodgers, Yankees, they are more likely to get a their pick among LA or Japanese players who come over. Sasaki was the #1 prospect last year. But, I was also thinking about how many players the Dodgers are locked into. It's a lot harder to break their 26 man obviously, so while they're always more aggressive on the trade block, I would think they'd have better systems in general also. The Dodgers just a couple years ago were absolutely loaded with pitching prospects. Miller, Gavin Stone, Pepiot, Sheehan... a list probably 8-9 deep of guys who threw in the upper 90s and had huge upsides, but they've traded a couple and most of the others have had injuries. So I agree there. The Dodgers do have a loaded system, but you would think the Yankees, Mets, Phillies, those other teams would also consistently have an elite system. I do see your perspective. Out limited payroll also... in a round about way kinda protects us or forces us to be creative and look into alternatives(or innovative as you said). If we had a 200M payroll or the ability to spend 200M, I'd assume Willy Adames would have been extended, perhaps Burnes for example. Do we still go out and make those trades for Priester or Kyle Harrison if we have Burnes? That's up for debate. Burnes will be back and I assume he'll be really good but nobody would prefer Burnes and his contract over Harrison at this point.

Wish he figured it out with another year left until free agency, but... I'll take it! He's a really nice player... and could see Tyler Black stepping in and replacing him to some degree next year. Won't hit for the same power, but LHed 1B, OF... you lose a bit there, you gain a bit at 3B/SS hopefully. The balance the Brewers are always dealing with. Hope he gets a nice contract with someone else though. Really nice bat and good defense at a position defense isn't a priority.

Yes, I didn't need a ranking to tell me Bobby Witt Jr was valuable. I... was well aware of that. He's also very good. I'm... very aware of that as well. Still don't think we'd be "lucky" to give up basically 5 prospects for the Royals to pick from, including the top prospect in the game as well as a top 15-20+ 3 others who are top 100 or close to top 100 prospects.

It hasn't in other sports, I don't know why it would in MLB. Also, I think other teams would still value speed and defense irrespective of the Brewers, I think they always did. We've just had a little more success winning in the regular season without hitting as many HRs. However, as the playoffs comes, the team that hits the most HRs still wins something like 80%(actually, I believe it's 78% to be exact) of the time. So... that really didn't change much. In the NFL, it's generally the teams that draft the best and by in large has innovative offensive play callers. Sean McVay. There's also the best teams at allocating draft capital. I don't really think there's any argument that teams who are more equal in revenue are going to try less to innovate. I think they're just as likely to do everything to give them an edge. That said, in the NFL, players have to be at least 3 years out of HS and you're not dealing with 6-9 minor league teams, scouting players as young as 13(we reportedly came to terms Maximiliano Feliz for 2M) so there's a lot more layers to Baseball... but yeah, I fundamentally reject the "eliminate the need to find new ways to win." It's sports. Athletes and teams are always looking for whatever edge they can find. Some suck at it like the Rockies or... generally speaking the Angels despite having money and some are good at it... but they're all trying. Even the Dodgers do pretty much all the things the Brewers do, but they at times eschew the defensive versatility because they can sign the best players. But they still put all the priority into scouting and development of the MiLB system. In fact, in most polls if the Brewers had the best farm system, the Dodgers have the 2nd or 3rd... and I believe the most top 100 prospects of any team right now.

For 4 years of a player making 125M over those 4 years? No, I don't think you'd have to trade both and I think that's the price "if we were lucky." It's also more like a 7-year extension unless he gets hurt and his value tanks, then it's an 11 year extension, otherwise, just 7.

Kiiinda hard to say "best case" for Vaughn is to be significantly WORSE than he's been in his first 82 games as a Brewer.

Yeah, but in this scenario, they'd be getting a MUCH bigger chunk of revenue from the TV deals all being shared. I'd imagine that'd more than make up for the 50M(or come close to it). I'm shocked that the local TV revenue sharing was agreed to by the large markets. I think you have to start this by grandfathering in some deals, maybe progressively building to it. You can't just punish the Dodgers because they like 120M a year in deferred money or a 360M payroll. But no, I don't think Mark Attanasio is hoarding the money. I think they leave a healthy room each year and turn a modest profit. And once again, just to remind everyone, Attanasio owns somewhere in the 35-38% of the Brewers. He's the principal owner, not the majority. So he's making the decisions, but he's not quite as responsible as everyone is inferring. If we're going to lose 20M a year, he has to get approval for that as he did when they borrowed for the AZ and LA complexes(I believe). If it's approved, they move forward. Likewise, if they're going to go 20M into the red, that usually requires a capital call and the other owners, even smaller owners like Giannis is going to have to pay for the2% he owns(or whatever it may be).

I don't think anything is going to do that. If the Brewers payroll was 30M this year, they'd still be charging the same for tickets and concessions. They don't raise ticket prices because they spend on payroll. They raise payroll because they're able to generate more revenue from ticket sales(and all other forms of revenue, merchandise, concessions, etc...).

He's hitting the ball the same as last year. We jump to conclusions way too soon. He's a guy who makes a lot of contact and who uses his speed to help get him on base. He won't be a power hitter, but he'll be fine. I'd also just remind people, this time last year, we were talking about Turang being a below average bat as he once again was sitting at sub .700 OPS. I'd bet Frelick hits ~.280 the rest of the way with a .340 OBP... while playing plus defense in RF.

Yes, you do. Ryan was was one of the most unique pitchers ever. I was in the stadium for his 300th win. A game at county stadium. I don't remember the details so much. Just that my Grandpa took me and another Cousin to the game when I was...a kid. 6-7. And he got the ticket framed. But his longevity and durability were amazing. He even thought his results were repeatable. That he could just have guys train like he did, throw through the pain and strengthen his arm that way. Worked out for a brief period of time for the 2010 and 2011 WS teams, but then some of those young, talented arms started getting hurt as did the Rangers prospects. Still, they kept the long-LONG toss(300 ft) and abandoned some of the other methods(through too much with a sore arm). The Football as a training tool, throwing a heavier object and forcing you to step in and use your body seems to be used by many still, though that wasn't a Ryan original that was an old pitching coach he had later in his career. Back to Mis, someone asked him how sore he was on day 3 for his BP after he threw. I think it may have been on a Fox broadcast recently or maybe just another interview. He said he wasn't really sore at all. That the day after he threw, he was, but by day three, it was mostly gone and he felt ready to go again. While I don't actually believe he'll sign any type of extension, I do hope he can go on and have one of those abnormally long careers with minimal injuries. I'll be a fan of his for the next 6 years in Milwaukee and then hopefully the next 15 wherever else he goes.

Perhaps they're working out the final details of a contract extension. 11/155? Or, most likely, they're just exercising an abundance of caution as they do with most prospects, much less the #1 overall.

No, I was kinda thinking it'd take a couple years until he really clicked. That it'd be similar to young Sheets. Stretches of really throwing well and then he'd struggle. If nothing else, have those blowup starts. Now, he's a potential Cy Young winner. You see comps lke deGrom and... SO rarely does it actually turn out to be a viable comp. Even better arguably as Mis is still refining his secondary pitches because... people just cannot hit that Fastball, but as you see from last night, he can throw 70%+ of Fastballs and just hit a quadrant and he is NASTY. If he can throw that CB at 85 and get more of a gap between the off-speed(maybe not the Slider/cutter which is apparently what the "slider" with elite movement is) but the other two. Would LOVE to see the Brewers pony up and sign him now and keep him 8 years. Or 8 more. But I think that's 8/140 at this point.

Yeah...same with Clemens. He clocked at 101... but also pitched under a different philosophy. You'd rather throw(using Mis) 96-97 and go 9IP and throw 125 pitches and pace yourself vs throwing it 101 47 times in a game and striking out as many as possible. I don't know how Ryan or Clemens compares. I've seen the same as you, but i don't know how accurate that radar gun was. we all know the big unit or Nolan were two of the greatest power pitchers in MLB history. It's just... amazing to see a guy who can do the things he can, and as a fan, it's maybe even more impressive to watch a teammate of his one-up him... at least in terms of just runs allowed and pure production! Also, hilarious to watch Red Sox fans on X. "If one more Brewers fan thanks me for Kyle Harrison...." Which... of course, at that point, it felt rude not to. I assumed, he meant if one more thanks me, I'll then appreciate the depth of their gratitude!

Not just yet. Started yesterday. I'm more concerned with Dinges NOT playing catcher.... yet again. 4 times in the last 22 games, he's caught. Is he even a "catching" prospect at this point? What's going on here? He'll be 23 by the end of the MiLB season, he's in HighA, he's raking, it's his catching that's holding him back... and he's not catching.