BrewerFan

Turang if you can get a reasonable Marte-esque type extension(not quite Marte given Marte was closer to FA, but 7/90+2 TOs... maybe). Misi- I'd 100% do right now. 8 years 100M 2 TOs for 25M per. Yeah, I know he's a pitcher... and I'd still do it. People use deGrom as the "what if" in terms of healthy. Look at his first 8 years. Made- Mis is 1A, Made is 1-1- I'd give him a Chourio type extension... though I imagine it'd be more expensive. Maybe 8/80+2 TO at 20M with a 10M buyout and MVP, incentives, give him the chance to earn 8/100. Contreras-I'd float a 5 year 75M extension... but I think we're too close to FA for that to be viable. Frelick would be a contingency plan as I don't think Turang or Mis will sign. American players are less likely to... though with a pitcher like Mis, still gotta try IMO. He looks like he's just going to keep getting better. Ultimately, I suspect Made will be the most likely and we're too late on Contreras and probably on Turang. I'm also just not afraid to pay a guy into his 30s. I'm afraid to pay him into his mid 30s or late 30s, but 32-33? Not at all a concern. Uribe-I'd go 8/40+2 TOs at 12M AAV.

It is. And I thought Sproat was a... similar pitcher to a young Burnes. He was a little too similar to 2019 Burnes(in ONE start) but I just have absolute faith these guys will figure it out. Whichrowski, Kuehner, Hardin. And they're probably not in the top 10 yet in terms of starting pitching options. Still, I'd love to see a 1st rd pick on a high upside prep arm.

Yeah... but he's also got the prototype of pretty much every X WR you're looking for. I think the way he's trending, they may not get a chance to take him and if they do, it's likely only one(though maybe 2). You'd also really have to look at the WRs and figure out which one you're going to move. If you draft another WR, you're probably going to have to lose one. - Watson- I think he's in their long term plans as a focal point of the offense. Golden- We're not getting a 1 for him, so you'd be selling low. Reed- I guess a 2nd would be wise. Especially as the Brewers are likely to be in the FA market next year and thus less worried about pick comp, but without Doubs, I think Reed is a big loss. Wicks- Still hasn't broken through, but a really nice #4. Willing blocker. But pending FA. Maybe a 4th? Williams- 2nd year player. KR specialist, looked pretty good in contested catch catch situations(relative for a rookie). Sky Moore-Not really like the Hardman situation from last year. They gave him 1M in GTD money. If they like the kid... think he's a #1 or can play on the outside, even with the OL/DT/CB needs, they should do it. But in that scenario, Reed or Wicks are probably going to get traded. He does look like a tank though.

Yes. If a player was lost for the season, it would make Brewers fans feel much worse. But... he wasn't. Wasn't he hit in a STing game? Also, did someone say that they needed to play for their home nations to "motivate them to play well for their MLB employer?" Conversely, 1-I don't think you CAN tell a player they can't participate. 2-You start saying your players are off-limits and you're going to deal with more hard feelings. 3-Most important... again, they weren't lost for the season. Probably a good idea to remember their actual human beings who take a great deal of pride playing for their National teams... and reducing them entirely to "assets," in EVERY context, especially a young player you signed to be the cornerstone of the next decade, again, it probably wouldn't reflect well on the Brewers.

Quero's pop times were back in the 1.80s-1.90, right? Maybe not quite the plus-plus arm, but back to being a viable starting catcher even if he's a below average hitter overall. We're spoiled with Contreras, even with a "down year," but Contreras is in that really bad spot in terms of roster management. Set to become a FA after what is looking like it could be a truncated 2027 season which should suppress his value. Given a catchers learning curve, I could see them going with Contreras and Quero next year, then taking the comp pick or dealing him if.... they magically play a full season. I'd guess Pratt would still be the primary SS. I'd want to see him at 3B over 2B if we're giving Jett Williams does seem closer and more likely, but with 3B prospects, guys they'll at least give playing time to like Adams, 2B seems more likely. I'd love to see Fischer, Burke force their way to AAA. I'd keep Made in AA all year in all likely scenarios, even one in which he hits ~.315/.400 with power and then I'd be more than happy to lock him up ala Chourio before '27, but that's jumping the gun a bit.

It was. TV deals are going to go up a lot. Either in the near term when networks can renegotiate prior to the NFL's opt out(IIRC after the '28 season) or... they do it now which it sounds as though they'll start doing. The 500M I.... just came up with on real rough numbers. It's more likely it'd be rolled out a bit more slowly with incremental jumps(though, we just went up 22M). The NBA somehow saw their cap projections go down... which I don't recall the last time that happened outside of Covid. I do think it's pretty fair to say it makes more sense to extend the players they're likely to extend now. Watson, Kraft, Wyatt(IDL are... as difficult to find as nearly any other position) and...I'm forgetting someone(not Reed, but I'd probably try and extend Reed also). Of course this is hardly a secret and the players know that. That's likely why Seattle extended JSN with 2 years left on his deal and gave him 4/168.4 in new money with 120M GTD.

I don't like it either... but I'm just a full on hoarder when it comes to these guys. If they feel he's worth the cost(or Hunt lacks value) I guess I'll defer. I'd love it to be and I'm not kidding, but Hicks. I said this a few days ago, but he's the type of guy I'd be watching. He's a guy who I believe is being paid already by Boston for the next couple years(~8M of the 25M remaining). You'd need CHW to pick up probably the same, but I'd trust the staff to get him right. I'd prefer and target a guy who... if you hit on, you hit big. Hicks is just so nasty and... erratic. Lawrence from Col and...IDK, Grant Taylor from the CHW are two other arms... but not exactly a pressing need. We kept Megill and Uribe, I like how Sproat looks. We've got others who depth and... a LOT of talent. Today made it look moot, but I agree and hope they can get one more RH power arm to come out of the pen.

I'd love to see them go after another high leverage RHP. Jordan Hicks and Seranthony Dominguez are two guys... but gotta let some time play out. It'd be great if you could get a great start from a Black, Boeve, Wilken, Adams... get some clarity and maybe trade them a bat with decent upside. I wouldn't trade Bitonti, but that'd probably be fair if they were to pay 5M of each deal. That'd be 5M per for Dominguez and then the White Sox owe Hicks 17M over the next 2 years. Maybe it 5M the White Sox cover there as well and it's 2 years 12M. I suspect we'll go out and get a RH Relief earlier than later this year. We see an issue and address it.

By the time the NFL is done with their next wave of TV contracts, none of these deals are going to be a disaster waiting to happen. Doubs deal will likely have bigger cap implications the next two years than a Watson extension will have the two years after his extension... which was created with a dummy bonus during the void years and dummby base salaries specifically so they COULD extend him to a deal for ~30M a year(which they can't go much over). He had hamstring issues early on, he(and Stokes) when to Madison to deal with that and he hasn't since. He hasn't had the hamstring injuries taking him out. He had an ACL, but unless there is something else structural with the knee, that shouldn't be a big deal, and we know can happen to any player at any time. He's also just been way too important to this offense. Two years into his extension deal, the cap is... almost certainly going to be... a LOT higher. I think you'll see Kraft, Wyatt, Watson, maybe Reed, all extended over the next 6 months and Watson is probably going to be 4/120 and I'd guess his SB is lower. Also, the Packers are the ones who want the 4 year deal. If they insist on a 2 year deal... it's just going to be a battle over GTD money and they probably end up paying him close to the same in GTD money. 2 year extension? Watson's camp is going to want more money, they're not going to just settle for a prorated % of that.

I would have agreed with what they'd actually would do, but I disagree with them doing it. Bringing Banks back... and even worse, they restructured. Restructure literally anyone else. You could have got out of that deal after this year at least. If you were willing to pay 20M for a 1 year of a below average OG. Now you're paying him 26M next year in dead money if you move on. Vera Tucker is worth twice Banks if healthy and since they both have health risks... I'd take that health risk. Alijah Vera-Tucker would have been the guy I'd have signed... if we were willing to take the injury risk. He's had two triceps and an Achilles that's... kinda flukey, but he has been injury prone. But he also got paid commensurate with that injury risk. Hobbs was just a bad signing from the jump. A bad fit on this defense. I was never comfortable with playing a bunch of slot Corners outside... and their hope that Hobbs would reverse all his career trends... didn't exactly play out. Sure, he had bad luck with injuries, but he was not good when he was on the field...except when he was in the slot(when he was merely adequate). I think keeping Banks just compounded their mistake. I think from any number of veterans or... again, Vera Tucker, an AP talent who got a really affordable deal with so much of his deal tied to his playing time(plus, his injuries, two torn triceps and an Achilles are a bit fluky, but he is elite when healthy). You could have signed AVT and a Teller, Zietler, Bitonio and the two of them are likely less in cap hits the next two years than Banks. Zietler is still an elite pass blocker. You could have signed Linderbaum. That would have made more sense. You will pay more, sadly, not THAT much more, but you get a cornerstone OL. Tom and Linerbaum. I would have said a BIG part of the reason they wanted to hold on to him and not go into the FA market is because they only had a couple cracks at FAs. You have 6 FAs who are signing elsewhere, you can get 4 comp picks, you re-signed Rhyan, now you signed a top of the market FA and you wipe out at least a 4th next year(maybe a 3 depdning on how Willis, Doubs or Walker play or how much). With the NFL VERY possibly reworking their TV deal and going from ~10B to ~25B(That's expected if it's done soon) that cap is going to explode. It's already exploding. It'll be 330 next year without the new TV deal. WITH a new TV deal? It's going to completely change the league. And the Packers should be proactive and extend Watson(30M AAV), Kraft(~18-20M)... maybe Wyatt(likely a 17M AAV, he's making ~13 this year) and I'd consider Reed if you can get it done for an extension of 4/80. I'd get the deals done as early as possible as they're just going to all get more expensive. If the TV deal doesn't get done this year, it gets done after 2028 when the NFL opts out and then it's going to be... a much bigger number. If the NBA is getting 7B a year, the NFL is worth... close to 400% more just from rating, ad revenue. So the cap is set to truly sky rocket, probably exceeding 500M by the time Parsons deal is up and it could be much sooner than the actual opt out. But hey, hope I'm wrong and Banks can play well. I also appreciate the calculus that goes into free agency as the Packers will had 5 extra 3rd-5th rd picks next year(Gary's trade was... a masterstroke by Gutey). Love Harvgraves. He excelled when playing under Gannon. Woolen makes absolutely no sense to me, not with Leo Chenal on the market(though again, comp pick) or Lloyd who got a very reasonable deal. St. Juste is a great deal. I'm pretty sure they'd have signed Riq Woolen if he'd have taken 15M over 4 years. Don't think the Packers wanted to give him just 1 year at 15M. And he could not have picked a better fit. Mitchell, Cooper DeJean, Jordan Davis and... presumably Jalen Carter... assuming these wild rumors don't amount to anything. They had to bring back Rhyan and they can get out of that cheap. Skyy Moore finally gives them a return man. He and Savion on KR, but PR is... a big upgrade. We had our #2 WR as our leading PR last year. Packers still have the money or mechanism to create the money for another big signing, but I wouldn't expect anything significant until after the draft when the comp pick formula doesn't matter or MAYBE we add another DL like Campbell. I know he's 40, but I've been pleading for him for about 6 years now. He would be our best DL if he plays like last year, he's cheap and just genuinely a good dude and leader. I don't care if he's 40. I wouldn't be a 4 yeaer deal. I think LaFleur is a REALLY good coach, but we’re going to find out this year. This is a brutal off-season for the Packers just in terms of cohesion. They has lost a lot of important coaches and they have a lot of turnover, they don’t have a 1st and they had needs on the OL and DL coming into it.... not to mention our CB room is still very bad.... but a great DL, Parsons, Wyatt, Hargraves, maybe Campbell, LVN if he takes another step, that makes it passable. Beyond that, I’d expect him to be active on the trade market after the draft and next season with the extra picks they'll have.

You don't save much this year, but just like with Banks, you save a lot next year. I would move on from both of them. Hobbs is injury prone and played poorly outside. Banks is owed I think 19.8M this year. Hobbs is owed I think just under 10M this year. Hobbs is more justifiable, but neither is worth it. You don't save much this year on either but... Micah Parsons had a cap hit of, what, 9.9M last year? You have to look at more than just this years cap hit. Gutey has been very good in FA. Last year was terrible. No sense in compounding it. Cut them, save the 36M in cap space next year and a couple million this year and structure the contracts accordingly. Wyatt Teller, Joel Bitonio... there are several veteran short term options and attack the OL in the draft. Most likely going to need to time to develop. CB, guys like Jaylen Watson would be ideal... but bidding will probably take what should be a 3/40 to 4 years and 20M AAV with a lot of it in GTD money. We can get by with a mediocre CB group if we have Wyatt, Parsons back, our young edges develop and we create pressure, but there's no sense in compounding past mistakes and adding more dead cap.

I gotta say, I'm not seeing a "Megill/Pena/Letson" type upgrade here; https://www.sports-reference.com/stathead/baseball/versus-finder.fcgi?player_id2=frelic000sal&year_min=2025&player_id1=abreu-002wil&seasons_type=forall&request=1&utm_id=abreuwi02&utm_source=br&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_medium=sr_xsite Koenig is a nice pitcher. Seems like the Brewers have... really squeezed just about everything out of him. Perkins is pretty unlikely to make the Boston roster and Koenig may not either given their expensive LHed relievers and their young talented LHPing. Those are players are afterthoughts in any substantive deal. But I also really just don't see the Boston players being the... MASSIVE upgrades like people are suggesting on here. Insofar as we're "missing" a player, it's a guy like Soto or Judge, that BIG bat you can put in the #2/3 hold and it impacts the players ahead of him because you don't want to face him with runners on and the players behind him because... you're facing them with runners on. Boston has VERY good young OFers. I'd love to have them. I doubt they'll trade Anthony, though for him, I'd give up a whole lot, but the other three, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to make this big offer.

Ok, well, I'd point out first that Made wasn't a top 10 prospect last year and Pena's pretty damn close to top 10, though just outside for the moment. But I'm not sure what the argument you're making here is then. IS the argument that you center your trade around Made? Personally speaking, I'd rather pair him with Chourio and approach him in a similar manner and try and lock him up to a large deal(provided he continues to progress like seemingly everyone believes he will). Would that be who you're trading for a ~.250/.320/.440-ish GG OF from Boston? That's about where Abreu, Duran and Rafaela put up as a slash line(little above, little below). Is that going to get us through the "small market consolation round?" If they're going to laugh at a deal that would include a 19-year-old top 15-20 prospect+ pitching... it doesn't seem like there' a whole lot to talk about. It would have to be Made we'd trade based on what's "prudent" to you... Of course the same article that is "aggravating" to you is one that cited the Mets as a team that was a potentially partner, but as the article says "the Mets are becoming a less ideal trade candidate as they continue to clear out interesting young players." To be clear, those prospects are Jett Williams, a pretty similar prospect to Pena. A SS/2B/CF prospect and pitching. I think we have a different idea of what's prudent. We could add a staggering amount of talent... for a year or two and... though, Year 2 may not even take place in this world due to the Dodgers ~420 million dollar payroll... which is also why I don't think just going out and trading for one OFer, frankly, even if it was Aaron Judge would EVER put us on equal footing -on paper- with the Dodgers. So I think it's prudent to keep stacking as much young talent as we can to the farm system and if there's a real difference maker who becomes available like Yelich... make a move.

Why not just include Made? If Prospects mean so little, particularly top 100, would they laugh at Made? I'd ask where you think these young MLB stars come from, but... they must just materialize!

No, it's very much an actual physical location. It's also not just "fan puffery." There was a article... posted on here, don't recall from where, but pitchers who the Brewers had acquired, who had MLB experiance, they saw their ERA improve more than any other teams pitchers. But, setting that aside(not even sure how I'd find that article at this point)... they're consistently top 5 in the league in pitching despite being a small market that can't spend on pitching... in fact, for the 3rd straight year now they've traded away an all-star pitcher. And I'd guess they're back in the top 5 in ERA again next year as they consistently are. That's quite a bit tougher to do when you can't afford to buy FA's like the Dodgers for example, or without using a lot of 1st rd picks like the Reds, Pirates(early 1st rd picks as well). So, regularly top 5 despite losing elite pitchers. Their top prospects are seldom pitching prospects, often unheralded guys like Patrick or...Myers two years ago, Peralta was a low level throw in when he came here. Megill was a guy who didn't have a whole lot of value. Quinn Priester, he was considered a bust. Even guys like Woodruff, Burnes, not exactly blue chip prospects when the Brewers drafted them. The fact is, they do as good of a job of any team in Baseball at identifying pitchers who they think they can get more out of with limited resources and little fanfare and consistently put together a very good rotation and BP. https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2023/03/21/what-goes-on-inside-the-brewers-mysterious-pitching-lab/70026803007/

It's a BIG swing from ~5-6 years. Brady, Brees retired. Watson looked like a great QB, Lamar looked... not as good as some people argue, but good. Mahomes looked like the next great and Rodgers was still winning MVPs. Even Big Ben was still playing, Ryan Tannehill was good, Wilson was still good. One of those guys is still an elite QB and he just tore his ACL yesterday. Who are the elite QBs now? Allen, Mahomes. Is there a 3rd? Herbert? I don't think I'd put him in there, but I like him a lot. Then I guess Love(IMO...I realize opinions vary on here). Dak? Is Dak actually an elite QB or does he play with Pickens and Lamb on turf with a good OL? Maye looks really good, but it's one year and Jayden Daniels looked great last year.

Yeah... he has to do all the planting and pushing off as a WR, but he has to do it while trying to stack a DL or bend and get around them. That's exactly what makes him great. This probably does hurt him more than Bosa's(speaking of which, they'll be getting him back and should be a SB contender again next year). I don't disagree with anything you've said, but it's the Packers job to get by without Parsons. Hopefully his is clean and rehab can go well. Watson may be optimistic, but I believe they can play well enough without Parsons to hold it down until he comes back. If that's week 8 or 10, 14, I don't know. And I take it back. There's probably ONE injury that was more impactful to their SB chances than Parson's. Bakhtiari. I think we win a SB that year with him and I think we're favorites the next year. But that's pretty much a worse case scenario. We don't even have a 1st rd pick to cope and look forward to the draft... ******* what a miserable game.

It's a LOT better than it was ~10 years ago. I still can't believe that Dez Bryant catch wasn't a catch or the famous Calvin Johnson catch. Or there was a TE, I think it was the Bengals, but he caught the ball and was reaching out over the goal line and they ruled that a non-catch. The whole "football move" part makes it complicated. Watching Twitter argue over the Wicks catch vs the Bears, they would definitely agree with you(I thought that was a catch... but I'm biased).

That does make the most sense. It really seemed like a shoulder or collarbone. And then they said they were unsure if he'd make the trip back to Green Bay(though he did). I think you were probably right. Just having him on the field is important for this team. Remember when Parsons got here though and the defense played with SO much energy. Just everyone rallying to the ball and playing all out. I at least want to see that next week. It would also be nice if Collin Oliver's little "redshirt" season as Andy Herman put it could come to an end and he could play. He's clearly not anything like Parsons, but he's extremely athletic and was at one point considered a 1st rd pick for last years draft(you'll probably find 100+ guys who at one point or the other are in 1st rd mocks that don't end up going in the 1st, but he has speed and our DL is sorely lacking that).

This is the worst injury I can remember in Packers history(I was too young for the Reggie injury...I was paying attention, but he was already back by the time I really heard it was a season ending injury or close to it). You don't think he can come back and make an impact by mid-season next year? Granted, we don't know the extent of it("just" an ACL is much better than when Kylin Hill's knee exploded on the field) but assuming it's like Watson or Kraft, I think it sucks, but we could get back next year and be good to go. With Watson, I'm honestly not as worried about long term injury issues. It SEEMS like he's solved the soft muscle injuries he's had. The rest is just the risk of football as opposed to every time he runs holding your breath. In fact... as a whole, 1-53, our injury luck hasn't been that bad numbers wise. It's just been to the worst possible players it could be outside of Love.

"Just a cracked rib?" I agree that's very good for him in the long run and for the Packers... but that is such a miserable injury. It's not much different than a back. Everything you do hurts. Just breathing hurts. And hell, I've never cracked a rib, just a little torn cartilage. Maybe a one of those flak jackets and numbing him up. I'd still guess he misses the Bears game(as you said). Never saw Tom's injury, so hopefully that's just something like a bone bruise or MCL. Whatever. I guess the best news we could get(baring a miracle) would be a clean tear for Parsons and a Watson like recover.

Yup. Tom was bad, but at least it wasn't a clear ACL or anything, he could be coming back(though these injuries they don't always label as "significant" can end up being LVN types... Then Watson who is pretty irreplaceable after Kraft. Parsons was the final nail. It's a 3-4 year window before we've gotta start really kicking the salary cap can down the road, so losing one year really sucks. Then again, Reggie had a season ending injury and god healed his hammy! So... maybe....that could happen again? Anyone feeling confident?

I got up this morning and... and there are your posts... still talking about. So... you want to let it go, then I guess... let it go?

LOL... oh...no, no, no bud! We're not doing that! I challenged YOU to a fight?!? Why would you even say that when you KNOW I've got screenshots! "I'M the one who asked!" I just laughed at it! I could go on where you said; But this... PROBABLY feels like a good place to stop! That's funny though... I wanted challenged YOU!!! No, after you said about a dozen times I was "afraid" to meet you, I said "fine," which... I obvious wasn't going to do and then you ran and told Brock on me! Don't rewrite history when I've still got the posts here bud!

Yeah, I do find it annoying when we're talking about the Packers, I make a comment about THE PACKERS and you start talking about the Bucks and the Brewers. What about the Badgers? Marquette? How far does this fanbase extend to in a thread specifically about the Green Bay Packers? Yeah, YOU replied and "made it apparent" you were arguing with me about something entirely different. "Fly off the handle?" Get over yourself dude. Are you still patting yourself on the back for cracking that HUGE secret I was Fan174 or whatever on the old website? Well Golly! That's super impressive... if you ignore... me specifically saying that, but otherwise, incredible detective work! From what you're reading... this morning, right? Is that from Watson's Dad saying So 15 hours later, you've got more information than we had at the time... but you're REALLY invested in arguing about the "feelings," of fans from DURING the game. What purpose is that serving? And that's how this discussion started. I know we're just kinda changing it up as we go, but that was the entire discussion.