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This is why you go for the playoffs if given the chance....


BadgerFan

Caveat: I know we're only 14 games in. I'm not jumping ship, I'm not panicking or calling for Melvin to start making trades.

 

But looking at our lineup is a decent example of why when given the opportunity late in the season to make a big trade to push the team into the playoffs, you do it. Last year in July/August the Brewers were in the thick of a pennant race and did nothing to improve the team. While arguments can be made as to why Melvin did not make any big move, the biggest reason seemed to be the assumption that "We have a young team and should be special next year, so let's not give up anything." Looking at our lineup, we should have one of the best offenses in the NL, yet for all we know Braun could have a huge sophmore slump, Fielder could be seriously out of shape and we could struggle to score runs all year. Not saying that will be the case, but you can't really count on anything to be the same from one year to the next. If we're in the same situation this year, DM should do whatever it takes to push us over the hump IMO.

 

I guess I'm just frustrated that despite the lineup the Brewers trot out to the field, despite the expectations, the "big" names on the team, etc., we're still subject to the same crappy baseball every year. I don't expect us to go undefeated, but every year there seems to be some huge glaring problem (no pitching, no defense, no offense). I guess I was expecting the Brewers to get off to a start like the Cardinals have and play consisntently good baseball all year, but even in this year where expectations are higher than ever there are more questions than answers.

 

***deep breath***

 

Someone remind me that it's a LONG season.

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Not saying that will be the case, but you can't really count on anything to be the same from one year to the next. If we're in the same situation this year, DM should do whatever it takes to push us over the hump IMO.
So why would you go out of your way to make a midseason splash if, since you can't really count on anything, you can't count on the new guy to make a difference?

 

He spent $10 mil on a closer, $6 mil on a CF (arguably one of the best FA acquisitions), and added a lot of other bullpen arms to a bullpen that was, in my opinion, our biggest problem. I guess I just don't understand what it is you want him to do to "do everything he can."

 

Also, for all we know, he might make a huge trade before the deadline if we're in the thick of it. Just because he didn't last year doesn't mean he never will. But if he does, remember it's most likely for a guy that we have to sign long-term or he's just a 2-3 month (hopefully 3) rental.

If I had Braun's pee in my fridge I'd tell everybody.

~Nottso

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But looking at our lineup is a decent example of why when given the opportunity late in the season to make a big trade to push the team into the playoffs, you do it.

 

The only problem with this logic is that you risk waaaay overpaying for an above-average RP with young arms and getting -- basically -- no gain in return. But Melvin's smart enough to never do that, right? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

Stearns Brewing Co.: Sustainability from farm to plate
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I guess I'm just frustrated that despite the lineup the Brewers trot out to the field, despite the expectations, the "big" names on the team, etc., we're still subject to the same crappy baseball every year. I don't expect us to go undefeated, but every year there seems to be some huge glaring problem (no pitching, no defense, no offense). I guess I was expecting the Brewers to get off to a start like the Cardinals have and play consisntently good baseball all year, but even in this year where expectations are higher than ever there are more questions than answers.

 

8-6 is the record the Brewers had at 14 games last year. It's winning baseball. This despite the offense being anemic and missing one of our starting pitchers and one of our starting outfielders. We've taken two road series against teams that should be contenders this year and swept a team at home that we should have.

 

11-4 is a gaudy number and is so small it signifies nothing.

 

Get off the ledge, buddy.

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Jeepers. yeah, it would be nice if the record was better, but the team is over .500, and doing that with most of the position players underperforming. let's wait at least 10-14 days before we get excited.
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But looking at our lineup is a decent example of why when given the opportunity late in the season to make a big trade to push the team into the playoffs, you do it. Last year in July/August the Brewers were in the thick of a pennant race and did nothing to improve the team.

I love posts like this. It actually assumes that Melvin just sat there and did nothing on purpose. I'm sure he tried to make some trades and I'm so no trades got done because the players he wanted were not available or traded to another contending team. You could make the argument he could've added more but how much of a difference does it make and how many assets do you give up to get an upgrade somewhere else? There has to be a limit where you say no more, that's too much to give up. He went out and got Linebrink and 99% of people believe he overpaid to get a reliever.

Look at some of the other trades at the deadline.

Eric Gagne for Kason Gabbard, David Murphy and Engel Beltre. We know it was between the Brewers and Red Sox for Gagne and the Rangers thought the Red Sox made a better offer.

Matt Morris for Rajai Davis. What role would either of those players have filled?

Octavio Dotel for Kyle Davies. Again, Dotel would've been nice but I believe he also spent time on the DL with Atlanta.

Scott Proctor for Wilson Betemit. Again, what would the benefit have been for us?

Luis Castillo for Drew Butera and Dustin Martin. Again, what purpose would Castillo have served here?

Kyle Lohse for Matt Maloney. Mediocre starter. We had plenty of those last year.

Tadahito Iguchi for Michael Dubee. Again, Iguchi served no purpose here.

Mark Teixiera and Ron Mahay for Saltalamacchia, Andrus and other minor leaguers. Teixiera would've been great...if we didn't have Prince at 1st base.

Ty Wigginton for Dan Wheeler. Again, no purpose for either of them here.

Kenny Lofton for Max Ramirez. Lofton would've been nice and may have taken playing time away from Jenkins but Gross got some time and played quite well. The difference was minimal.

Again those were the deals around the trade deadline. I'm sure Melvin tried to get an Adam Dunn or someone like that to go for it it's just that they weren't available. Both teams have to agree to a trade and if the team doesn't want to trade the player that Melvin covets you can hardly blame him. Also you can hardly blame him for not doing more at the deadline when Teixiera was the only big name moved and we had no need for him.

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Last year our relief pitching was horrible (besides Coco) going into the deadline and DM traded for Linebrink (for years had been a premier set up man). Yes he sucked last year and the move didn't work, but DM addressed a need we had and it still blew up in hsi face. You can hardly say he did nothing. The team last year played over their heads and were still in a spot to contend. This year (SO FAR!!!!) we are underperforming and still have a winning record. I am not worried about this team at all.
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8-6 is the record the Brewers had at 14 games last year. It's winning baseball.

 

11-4 is a gaudy number and is so small it signifies nothing.

 

I hope you realize the hypocrisy in your statement -- If the Cardinals 15 game mark means nothing, then you simply cannot declare that the 8-6 start by the Brewers is "winning baseball". If the Brewers 8-6 is winning baseball, the Cards 11-4 is dominant baseball. If the Cards 11-4 signifies nothing, then the Brewers 8-6 start also signifies nothing.

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I think that's exactly what he's trying to say. 8-6 does mean nothing. It's just too early in the season for the standings to really matter. If the trend continues into late may/june, then it begins to mean something
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Last year in July/August the Brewers were in the thick of a pennant race and did nothing to improve the team.

 

As already mentioned, the Brewers gave up three decent arms/prospects for Linebrink in a deal that didn't work out as intended, but was a legitimate attempt to solidify one of the teams major weaknesses last year. Now, the prospects may well flame out and may look fairly even in the long run (or maybe slanted to the Brewers if they get a major prospect out of the comp picks), but in the short term, it was a bad move.

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Last year when our offense played like this the team went of an extended skid. I'm actually quite happy that the team is able to scratch out wins when they are not playing very well. That is the differance I see from last year to this. Then agian I know I am an eternal optimist so maybe it's just me thinking the sky really isn't falling and soon I'll have blunt force trauma from a falling piece of blue stuff..
There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.
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What did the Cubs do last year that helped them pass you by? 3 things only 1 helped

 

1) Traded for Craig Monroe - he was a huge let down in Chicago

2) Signed Steve Trachsel - he was even a bigger let down

3) September call-ups - Mainly Geovany Soto getting a bunch of starts over jason Kendall - that worked.

 

So really we did nothing out of the ordinary.

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The Cubs won with career years from guys like Lilly, Marquis and it looks like Hill as well. Add in the durabiltiy of Zombrano vs Sheets and that made way more than the 2 game differance.

 

I won't say the 10 less starts for Sheets vs Z thing was luck since he has been more durable but the Lilly, Hill and Marquis years were more lightning in a bottle than some sort of actual intentional action taken to make one better than the other.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.
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Brewer Fanatic Contributor

Before the season started, I thought April had a good chance to be the toughest month of the season for the Brewers. Gallardo and Cameron being out is huge, the Brewers have gotten great play from Kapler, but how many teams wouldn't feel the loss of their second-best starter, and their center fielder?

 

The April schedule looked rough from the beginning, with two road series' in Chicago, one in New York, and one in each place vs the Reds. Now that we've gotten a few weeks in, we see that St Louis and Florida are playing well, and there are eight games vs those two teams...with two vs the Phillies mixed in.

 

Apart from playing the Giants at home, where's the soft spot?

 

The Brewers will spend the whole month playing good teams and hot teams - while they are short-handed - and that's before you even mention which players have started well, or not started well.

 

I'm looking for the team to basically survive April, just don't fall off the map, then I expect things to go better for them. They'll get production from Braun and Fielder, everyone knows that, and they'll have the missing pieces back in the lineup too.

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No, I think he said 8-6 is winning baseball -- which it is, but so is 11-4 then.

 

I took it as him making two, seperate points. First, the record of any team after 15 or so starts tells us little about their actual, cumulative skill. Second, despite the Brewers' offense not doing very well early, they are still 2 games over .500 and are are basically right where we would expect them to be. Or I am wrong. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

It is my opnion that trying to make generalizations about a team based on 15 games is a waste of time. We haven't seen enough to make any meaningful obervations, IMO.

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BadgerFan wrote:

 

***deep breath***

 

Someone remind me that it's a LONG season.

We aren't even 1/10th o the way thru the season yet, and two very important parts to our team(Yo and Cameron) have yet to play at all. I think the ship helps right itself once we get them back onboard. Till then, I'm viewing over .500 as a positive step.

( '_')

 

( '_')>⌐■-■

 

(⌐■-■)

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I think that's exactly what he's trying to say. 8-6 does mean nothing.

 

No, I think he said 8-6 is winning baseball -- which it is, but so is 11-4 then. You just can't claim that the Brewers are off to a good start and then be dismissive of the Cardinals start.

Well, what I was trying to do was make two separate statements in one, but failed.

 

I do think the records so far don't indicate much, but I guess I was also trying to point out that at the least, the team does have a winning record--can't have my cake and eat it, too.

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I do think the records so far don't indicate much, but I guess I was also trying to point out that at the least, the team does have a winning record--can't have my cake and eat it, too.

 

I hear you -- there are ~150 games and a lot could happen -- I'd take 8-6 given the Brewers hitting "attack" the last few games. I may have read what you were typing wrong, I took it to mean that 8-6 was a good harbinger but 11-4 could be dismissed -- sorry if I caused confusion.

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My 'suggestion' is that he wasn't worth the cost. Linebrink was an average to above-avg. RP, but we paid for him based on his 'elite' reputation.

 

I was referring to post #7 in this thread, not you. I just don't like to call out individual posts if I can avoid it.
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